HOI4 as a beginner - the UI is HORRIBLE

[st360]

I played HOI 2 a lot, as well as other Paradox games. I tried to get into HOI4 multiple times over the years. I literally never once made it past fully setting up the game and unpausing.

The UI is so uninformative and yet so cluttered its impressive in a way, like managing to set a flooded house on fire. The muddy washed out colors don't help either. I get that mud = war or something, but trying to figure out if something is allready researched/taken is close to looking like one of those colorblindness tests when youre doing a medical check up.

Spoiler

I get that people here with +7 million hours probably memorized the picture above and know how much oil the 4th icon down costs. But that picture is worse quality than this one:

Spoiler

I would honestly welcome this MS paint picture with big letters (and taking up less space, paradoxically). Versus a research tree for researching better arrows (shovels?), jackets, military police, maybe a wrench?, octopus, a city and business school.


For the picture below this, at how much capacity are my factories running? How many ships did I already finish?

At how much capacity are my naval factories in this screen where I build ships:

Spoiler

Now without ever playing HOI2 guess how many planes are being properly produced by looking at this picture:

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I'm guessing the people on this forum have +4000 hours in HOI 4 and have learned to half memorize where to click for optimal game play without even looking at the screen. But I cant imagine how anyone new could possibly digest this UI and general visuals. Unique missions for Bosnia and a new plane type for Timbuktu wont attract new players who hit a brick wall upon opening the game and are expected to invest hundreds of hours forcing a unintuitive design into their brains. I tried, I really did. Several times. This has nothing to do with complexity, or learning how to google where a button is in game. I regularly play other Paradox games.

Finaly, look at this picture below.
Is this honestly the best it can be made to look by a designer?

Spoiler

 

[Supremeleaderpies]

this sounds less like a problem with the game, and more so a problem with the operator sitting in between the chair and the keyboard.

it helps to take the time and read. as EVERYTHING your bitching about (Pardon my french) is provided for you in game in actually really easy understandable ways. simply click or hover over and read. if you are patient and take the time to learn you might find that the game has what your looking for.

i honestly dont know how you can think hoi2 is easier to get than hoi4, hoi4 was dumbed down to make it more accessible. *Edit, because i didnt mean this to come off as dumbed down equals better ui, i moreso ment that with it being simpler there is less that needs to be displayed in the ui.* Shit the only reason i gave Hoi4 a chance was because i had tried previous HOI titles and i couldnt play any of them because the ui was such a mountain to climb. now ive sunk 2500 hrs into hoi4 and have the hardest achieves completed.

 

[Roland Traveler]

I played HOI 2 a lot, as well as other Paradox games. I tried to get into HOI4 multiple times over the years. I literally never once made it past fully setting up the game and unpausing.

The UI is so uninformative and yet so cluttered its impressive in a way, like managing to set a flooded house on fire. The muddy washed out colors don't help either. I get that mud = war or something, but trying to figure out if something is allready researched/taken is close to looking like one of those colorblindness tests when youre doing a medical check up.

Spoiler

View attachment 653949

The icon goes from yellowish-brown to green, how much clearer do you need it to be? It’s a clear change if you’re not colorblind and are actually looking at the screen attempting to interpret it.

I get that people here with +7 million hours probably memorized the picture above and know how much oil the 4th icon down costs. But that picture is worse quality than this one:

Spoiler

View attachment 653950

I would honestly welcome this MS paint picture with big letters (and taking up less space, paradoxically). Versus a research tree for researching better arrows (shovels?), jackets, military police, maybe a wrench?, octopus, a city and business school.

They’re icons designed for shorthand when you actually know what they are. If you click on them, they’ll tell you the name and what modifiers they apply to your divisions when assigned. Not everything needs to be available at a glance and clutter up the screen.

For the picture below this, at how much capacity are my factories running? How many ships did I already finish?

At how much capacity are my naval factories in this screen where I build ships:

Spoiler

Considering your factories don’t have any red, I assume they’re running at peak efficiency. If that’s wrong, simply hover over the number telling you how many are being built a day to find out.

As for the dockyards, why should it keep track of how many ships have been built? That’s on you as a player if you decide not to queue a limited amount of ships. And you’re using 34 out of 34 dockyards, it says so in the top right corner.

Now without ever playing HOI2 guess how many planes are being properly produced by looking at this picture:

Spoiler

View attachment 653958

... I dunno, five? I have literally no idea how to read that thing except that there are red numbers relating to the factory slider, so you should probably increase that. It’s an obtuse mess that would require me to take time to learn how to read it. To say that’s better than a game that clearly tells you how many pieces of equipment are being produced a day, how many factories are assigned to it, whether it’s obsolete or not, and how many you need is... mind boggling.

I'm guessing the people on this forum have +4000 hours in HOI 4 and have learned to half memorize where to click for optimal game play without even looking at the screen. But I cant imagine how anyone new could possibly digest this UI and general visuals. Unique missions for Bosnia and a new plane type for Timbuktu wont attract new players who hit a brick wall upon opening the game and are expected to invest hundreds of hours forcing a unintuitive design into their brains. I tried, I really did. Several times. This has nothing to do with complexity, or learning how to google where a button is in game. I regularly play other Paradox games.

As someone with about that much time in HOI4, I’ve got no clue nor intention of learning the meta beyond “20 width infantry is good at holding” and “Ha ha, 40 width medium tanks go brrr”. But you know what I did learn? I learned how to read production menus because it’s very simple. It gives you everything you need to know at a glance and tells you more in depth stuff if you hover over parts of the interface.

Finaly, look at this picture below.
Is this honestly the best it can be made to look by a designer?

Spoiler

It clearly tells you who controls what, who has divisions where, and how many divisions there are. Is it pretty? No. Does it get overwhelming when the entire Allies have deathstacked one frontline? Yes. Does it give you in-depth details on enemy numbers, division composition, and a rough idea of enemy supply when you take the time to look at each division and assess the situation? Yes. I don’t know how it’s done in HOI2, but for me I can easily get the information I need by looking at the front for a few seconds.

 

[Eh up me duck]

There are definitely issues with HOI 4's interface, particularly the research interface.

That being said it is perfectly functional. In fact for a game as complex as Hearts of Iron 4, the interface does an extremely good job at giving you the information you need without drowning you.

 

[Sbrubbles]

The HOI4 UI may be shit in many ways, but saying HOI2 was better is just insanity.

 

[safe-keeper]

I can't tell if the OP is serious or writing a parody of those over-the-top rants we've had lately.

 

[Rashie]

Support companies do not consume oil in this game. In their infinite wisdom, paradox has decided that things such as motorized logistics should be excluded from oil consumption in the support company itself.

You don't have to figure anything out about that in that particular research screen you're showing.

 

[coffeelingfine]

i honestly dont know how you can think hoi2 is easier to get than hoi4, hoi4 was dumbed down to make it more accessible. Shit the only reason i gave Hoi4 a chance was because i had tried previous HOI titles and i couldnt play any of them because the ui was such a mountain to climb. now ive sunk 2500 hrs into hoi4 and have the hardest achieves completed.

Better UI ≠ dumbed down

I don't see how HOI2 was any more complicated than 4

 

[XselenS]

I honestly have no idea how many planes are being "properly produced" in your HOI2 picture and have never played HOI2. You had me until that argument.

I suspect grand strategy games are and always have been grand for a reason and will therefore always have a steep learning curve.

 

[General Waluigi]

I can't tell if the OP is serious or writing a parody of those over-the-top rants we've had lately.

Might be a badly written parody considering the OP used screenshots from a very old version, judging by production screen and Allied invasion pictures.

 

[him_15]

You will get used to it.

 

[Captured Joe]

Before complaining about PDX games' UI, play an AGEOD game first.

 

[Th3master]

"I would honestly welcome this MS paint picture with big letters (and taking up less space, paradoxically). Versus a research tree for researching better arrows (shovels?), jackets, military police, maybe a wrench?, octopus, a city and business school."


What? Can you seriously not tell what a tent and a radio looks like? How does the radio icon look like a business school?

This has to be trolling

 

[sreckom92]

Grabbed this image from the interwebz. I know it is an extreme example and that it is from HOI3, but still...


HOI4 interface does have it's flaws and could be much better.
But learning the interface in previous HOI games was a game in itself.

 

[fabeto]

This thread is gold!

Sounds like someone is too lazy to read... I would understand if you said, "I can't figure out what I need as a division in the division designer". Or how does sea comabt works. Or what plane strategy to use and what is Green air everyone is telling me to have. For that you might need youtube guides or a friend.

But all your points are right there. You just have to read.

 

[Me_]

I agree that the GUI is horrible, but I've gotten used to the form>>>function approach to GUI that Paradox employs. I don't think they will ever change it.

 

[safe-keeper]

I tried getting back into HoI3 recently. I played it for hundreds of hours back in the day, but returning to it after HoI4, I lasted probably less than 10 minutes before uninstalling. The UI is just way too clunky, and not at all user-friendly. Simple tasks that could've been handled automatically by just pressing a button, like organising your army into a hierarchy (every 5 infantry divisions go into a corps, every corps into an army, and so on) can take hours because you have to do it all manually.

Thank heavens PDX has gotten way better at making user-friendly UIs since then. A bigger budget probably helps greatly, too.

"I would honestly welcome this MS paint picture with big letters (and taking up less space, paradoxically). Versus a research tree for researching better arrows (shovels?), jackets, military police, maybe a wrench?, octopus, a city and business school."


What? Can you seriously not tell what a tent and a radio looks like? How does the radio icon look like a business school?

This has to be trolling

It was the "octopus jacket city business school" part that tipped me off that this is probably just the OP trying to be funny.

 

[CrasherZZ]

I had about 500 hours in HOI3 so I'm not a total HOI newbie but describing the HOI4 UI as being better than HOI3 or HOI2 is not saying much. I remember the first time I started playing HOI4 not long ago, looking at the screen and thinking WTF am I supposed to do now?

True, most of the functionality is all there if you know where to look and what to do with it. Problem is I'm over 100 hundred hours into it and I'm still figuring things out. So the UI is "horrible" but it can't be helped. With a game so complex and deep, there's really not a good way to display every little thing in a friendly intuitive way - compromises have to be made in the presentation.

Yes if you do enough reading and research, you will eventually know most of what you need to know, but having to do searches, studying, and trial and error is not what most people are looking for in a game.

I'm sure I will end up playing several hundred more hours but this game simply isn't for everyone.

 

[SantiK-888]

I think that Hoi3 and Hoi2 have a better UI system by a lot since many times there are errors or bugs that you can find in Hoi4... but in terms of gameplay and graphics damn Hoi4 is better.

 

[uberjedi]

The UI is partly horrible until you spend enough time in the game to get used to it.

And some things stay horrible no matter how long you play. For example when you are trying to figure out air losses in a province. Clicking "days" or "months" can give you higher numbers than clicking "years". The rational thing would of course be to include ALL losses up to the current date so that when you click "years", it will include the latest months and days.