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tom_jones

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So, yeah, the template evaluation routine doesn't seem to be doing a very good work, still:

r92yl1.jpg


Spain has 3 infantry templates to choose from: one with 8 battalions (Division de Infanteria) one with 4 battalions (Brigada de Infanteria) and one with 3 battalions (Brigada Legionario). The AI chooses to work with that last, weakest one, both for upgrades and unit production. The Republican Spain is doing the same thing, in its own part of the country.
 

SteelVolt

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So, yeah, the template evaluation routine doesn't seem to be doing a very good work, still:

r92yl1.jpg


Spain has 3 infantry templates to choose from: one with 8 battalions (Division de Infanteria) one with 4 battalions (Brigada de Infanteria) and one with 3 battalions (Brigada Legionario). The AI chooses to work with that last, weakest one, both for upgrades and unit production. The Republican Spain is doing the same thing, in its own part of the country.

Did you see this in Spain immediately after the 36 start?
 
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wildbillhdmax01

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tom_jones

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Did you see this in Spain immediately after the 36 start?
As far as I can tell it didn't have XP to do anything with its templates before the Civil War kicked off (it started pretty early). The 3 battalions template is something that gets added when the war starts I believe (along with copies of all regular Spain templates) and that template doesn't have any 'low priority' marker (and is last on the list), so maybe some of that is confusing/influencing the AI?

On the upside it seems to be doing pretty decent upgrades-wise with the other countries so far (though it's still very early in the game, so knock on wood, fingers crossed etc)
 
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Peter81

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And that's why you need savegames for a bug report and not just a "just start the game and watch it happen" comment.
About the division template upgrades: Spain in the screenshot has only 130k men in the reserve pool and not enough PP to change conscription law. Are they perhaps switching bigger divisions to smaller divisions to get more men into the reserve?
 
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Shock360

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No, really, thanks! Now I nailed it down in 10 minutes. Now to try to make sure the fix does not mess up 10 other situations :)
I would just like to say your amazing for all of us. There may be a lot of people complaining, but they shouldn't have the right to when people like you are working so hard on it and getting it done. I'll start playing some non-ironman to try and help you out, hope others do the same!
 
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tom_jones

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About the division template upgrades: Spain in the screenshot has only 130k men in the reserve pool and not enough PP to change conscription law. Are they perhaps switching bigger divisions to smaller divisions to get more men into the reserve?
Switching bigger divisions to smaller seems to be affecting multiple countries with low manpower. It is possible that is what's driving the AI, but the catch is, switching to smaller divisions is, if anything, counter-productive and isn't going to help the AI in the slightest -- 2 trash divisions aren't going to perform any better in combat than 1 normal division holding the same amount of men. To the contrary, they'll be swept aside by anything resembling a regular combat unit.
 

lovkal

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Not sure if anyone else noticed (haven't bothered to check, heh), but I've seen that the AI tends to make a LOT of armies and just put 3 or 4 units in each. Especially Japan for some reason.
See the pic.
 

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wildbillhdmax01

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Forgot to post a savegame for that German Frontline moving back and forth bug. It starts to really happen after demand the sudetenland. Click HERE Will also add to OP.
 

Shock360

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SteelVolt, would it be possible to make it so that the ai first focuses on reinforcing the divisions they have, then switches them back to the real divison(so for example, switch to garrison, reinforce them, then switch back bfore making new divisons?)
 

jockedahl

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So the AI front relocation bug, the one that keeps me from playing the patch, wasn't solved? Or how should I interpret it. Can someone who has played confirm whether it's still gamebreaking or not?
 

Rawden

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20160628204737_1.jpg


Germany declared war on Poland. After Germany, Soviet Union declared war on Poland. SU got Poland. After the capitulation, German AI put 90% of their army to Soviet border because Molotov-Ribbentrop pact didn't work. Like, they did agreement but somehow it didn't fire, so they didn't get non aggression pact. Germany of course couldn't win against Allies with his %10 of troops. USA did join in 1941. Aaaaand it is a nightmare.

So the problems:
1-Germany couldn't even win against Poland.
2-Soviets did declare war on Poland.
3-Germany put all of his troops to Soviet border.
4-Because of it he couldn't win against Allies.

Here is the link of my savegame: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-EGnBWsne_4WEtraGV1c29wRkU/view?usp=sharing

Edit: Also AI doomstacked like 50 units on a tile of Slovakia. This is a problem to. And plus, Battleplan AI must stop unnecessary horizontal moves. Like it moves a unit to the south and the immediately to the north for no reason.
 
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GShock

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Switching bigger divisions to smaller seems to be affecting multiple countries with low manpower. It is possible that is what's driving the AI, but the catch is, switching to smaller divisions is, if anything, counter-productive and isn't going to help the AI in the slightest -- 2 trash divisions aren't going to perform any better in combat than 1 normal division holding the same amount of men. To the contrary, they'll be swept aside by anything resembling a regular combat unit.

Yet if AI controlled troops are fixed in the pathing they can finally have an organization and an entrenchment instead of travelling strategic + constantly switching fronts. So if Pod has found the problem many things will change for the better.

The pathing IS a big issue with the front lines shifting (and dozens of units moving unnecessarily) but you can see it even with normal player movement. After beating Greece, I added 2 divisions from the Italian army to the Libyan army (which is in Garrison state, not having front lines or orders). Well Greece is full of ports and these 2 divisions moved from Greece to Southern Italy and then took the ferry in Sicily to reach Libya... it's as bad as that.

Just look at the italian army if you select the 17 divisions at game start, form the army and then issue a garrison order in Piemonte, Lombardia, Veneto and Istria, you'll see the divisions in Piemonte move to Veneto and vice-versa. Whatever factors are being computed, all divisions are the same and mathematically an infantry div that camps in Veneto has the same values as a Div camping in Piemonte.

To prevent further useless movement to garrison front lines we could really use an option that prevents an army to autoupdate its front according to another army's conquests.

Example here

5 div army front line auto-merged with 20+ army conquests. That pulls those 20 AND those 5 into a single army which is NOT what we want to happen (those 20+ don't need to "mark" the 5 div army front line because it messes up with its own plan. When that happens it's a hell of a problem (and it happens all the time).
 

kauzer

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Can some one explain why troops of capitulated Italy continued to fight? Should not they gone? History mode enabled.
 

tom_jones

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Yet if AI controlled troops are fixed in the pathing they can finally have an organization and an entrenchment instead of travelling strategic + constantly switching fronts. So if Pod has found the problem many things will change for the better.
... what does this have to do with AI downgrading its units to half their original size because it thinks it's a smart move when it's really not?

And it's not like entrenched 3 battalion unit is going to hold against 1-2 regular divisions any better than regular unit which travels -- the loss of organization on move may mean the unit gets pushed back initially, but organization is regained pretty quickly, and that unit will have a fighting chance soon enough. The 3 battalion trash on the other hand won't become more of an obstacle, because it doesn't pose one to begin with.
 

Ouragan2

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Game can't be historical when AI build unhistorical number of divisions !!! Look at this minors... 99 divisions in Hungary, 26 divisions in Denmark, 26 divisions in South Africa, 20 divisions in Canada... Historically they don't have enough weapons to build that many divisions !!! They don't have money to purchase it. You have to change this first, then modding AI behavior :)
 
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Sleight of Hand

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Game can't be historical when AI build unhistorical number of divisions !!! Look at this minors... 99 divisions in Hungary, 26 divisions in Denmark, 26 divisions in South Africa, 20 divisions in Canada... Historically they don't have enough weapons to build that many divisions !!! They don't have money to purchase it. You have to change this first, then modding AI behavior :)
Main issues there:
  • AI doesn't know how to use proper-sized division templates (this is being worked on);
  • Manpower is far too high across the board;
  • Conscription laws provide too much manpower, especially later on.
 
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