HOI3 Enhancement suggestion-HQ,brigades and field command.

[unmerged(54763)]

My proposition for reworking of HQ and field command thing,together with reworking of units production and creation.

Basic idea:

Central structure for creation of every military unit in HOI3 should be- a HQ.

Basic production unit should be-brigade.


HQ will be more like "matrix" of military formations,not a single "Division"
Imagine HQ as empty page with separate fields on which building blocks of future formation will be inscribed.Imagine empty slots to put lover-level units there.

There should be few levels of HQ.

1.Divisional level HQ
2.Corps lewel HQ
3.Army level HQ
4.Army group level HQ

Basic production unit will be brigade.There should be brigades of tipes similar to todays divisions and brigades in one same category(Inf,Mot,Arm,Mount,Para,Art,AT....)
Divisional HQ will be matrix to create a division from various brigade tipes.

Produced brigades will be placed together eather by player or by AI to create various divisions.
To form division therefore one will need a Divisional level HQ,and et least one brigade.In this particulare case of only one brigade this unit will be "independent brigade" but fully operative unit becose of HQ it have.
So there will be possible to make formations from 1-4 brigades. An unit with 4 brigades will be standard division"of strenght of todays game divisions.
All those divisions will be represented with same icons as todays division,only their strenght will apear as 1/4(one brigade),1/2(two brigades),2/3(3 brigades),and full streght for 4-brigade division.

Formation of larger unit will go allso trough their Headqouters.

a.Division level HQ--4 empty slots for brigades,as described.

b.Corps level HQ--4 empty slots for HQ-s of lover level(div.)

c.Army level HQ--12 empty slots for HQ-s of lover level(corps,div.)but max 12 divisions.

d.Army group level HQ- empty slots for HQ-s of lover level (Army,corps,))but max. up to 60 divs total.


On the screen of every HQ should be displayed structure of this formation,actualy a list and "branching" of subordinated units.
"Stacks" as we know them in current game,will be therefore somewhat different.One HQ will control subordinated units from diferent provinces,and order to HQ will be an order to all its units.
Every HQ will have its leader,from divisionl level upwards.Subordination will go trough HQ-s.
Of course all of this will be more or les simmilar in case of air and naval units.

This idea is rough,and have problems on its own,but I ask you clever guys to debate about this and maybee produce some working model that will improve future game.

 

[unmerged(59071)]

way to complicated idea. i read this post 3 times and i still do not completly understand the idea but i agree with you that the HQ system needs some serious reworking !

 

[unmerged(54763)]

way to complicated idea. i read this post 3 times and i still do not completly understand the idea but i agree with you that the HQ system needs some serious reworking !

Complexity is one major drowback of this concept I must admit.

Imagine you have on your screen just produced HQ(there should be cheap to produce those).

Your new HQ have only one definition when produced-its level.
Let say this is lowest level- Division level HQ.

You click on HQ icon,and there is empty place to put
1.Leader.
2. up to four empty spaces to place brigades.
Combinations are many.
For instance mixed infantery division.2 inf brigades +one mountain brigade+one artilery brigade.
Or armour-mechanized divizion_say 2 tank brigades+one motorised briigade+one aromured car brigade,or so.
Now you have division. Which you can place to fight autonomysly,or incorporate in one larger formation (corps or army..)for bonuses of large HQ-s.

Form corps?Player must have HQ of Corps-level.
Put leader.
Now you have up to 4 free places to put division HQ-s of your choice to form larger-scale formation.The same thing is therefore on higher levels.

Form air unit?.Have HQ,you are German,and its 1944,you want to create specialized nihght fighter squadron.Exellent.You asign night flyer commander to HQ and form division of just one brigade of expensive night fighters,and form a hisytoricaly acurate division.

There is so many combinations given by this model that game will be maybee micromanagement hell for someone,but for someone a paradise.

But key point is_automatisation.There should be possibility to choose between automatic formation of units, or strictly player defined actions,for wide spectrum of players.

 

[unmerged(54763)]

Now let me imagine,just as example of this concept,one army structure of larger scale.
Player is Germany.

Structure is:Ocupation force in Norway

Let us imagine command and subordinated units:
Overal command of ocupation forces -HQ- Army level HQ placed in Oslo.
As an Army-level HQ it posseses 12 empty slots for subordinated HQ-s of lover level.
Imagine 5 of its slots are used by subordinated units.

1-Div. level HQ placed in Oslo-name:54 infanterie division
(4 inf. brigades)

2-Corps level HQ in Stavenger-
name: 6th. armeecorps
-Div. level HQ-name:37.inafterie div.(4 inf. brigades)
-Div. Level HQ- name 14.infanterie div.(3 inf.brigades,1 artillery brigade)
-Div. level HQ-name:17 infanterie div.(2 inf. brig,1.mount)

3-Div. level HQ Narvik-name:40. infanterie. division.
(3 inf. brig,1mount brigade.)

4-Div. level HQ Bergen-name:11.th independent brigade
(1 infanterie brigade)

5-Div.level HQ Trondheim-name:39. division.
(1 infanterie brigade,1 artillery brigade)

All units are under command of HQ of Army level in Oslo .
This is one Army.

 

[unmerged(41649)]

but what if you take some of your norway divisions and move them to Spain, would they still be commanded by the HQ in Norway? Or is there some sort of proximity leash that keeps divisions close to their HQ. What if you want to send 3 divisions to Africa, do they start a new theatre of war?

 

[unmerged(54763)]

Good Question.
Obviously there must be some setting of "borders",or theatres.When unit is relocated in some distant area,it is obvious that remote higher command have no more sence.problem it is,that can be solved i think.
Unit than should be placed under existing higher command in new theter,or new command must be created.
In case of Africa,the solution is of coursce in creation of new formation.


More so,imagine this.

Your Italian buddies are in big trouble in Libia.But you have no time and resources to send complete corps,and must act as historicaly.That means quckly assemble some force and send it to theter to stop British rapid advance.

Under you disposal is only one armoured brigade and two mot.brigades.
You put one Corps HQ under mr.Rommel and in two slots put 2 div. level HQ-s and create a core of new unit like this:

Corps level HQ,name "Africa Corps",Rommel
-Div. HQ,Name 7 Panzerdivision(1. arm brigade),Dietrich
-Div. HQ, Name 6 Mot.div.(2.mot. brigades),Paulus
And quickly send them to Africa.

Late on you can reinforce those divisions to full possible strenght, by adding another brigades to divisions,and ad up to 2 more divisions(4 max. to corps)
By adding new divisions to yor forces you can eventualy whish to create Panzerarmee Africa,by placing Army level HQ there,under Rommel.Old Africa corps HQ stays there but suboordinated to new larger formation.

 

[unmerged(59071)]

maybe you could assign headquarters to a region or so like " Reichshauptquartier Ukraine"

 

[unmerged(54763)]

maybe you could assign headquarters to a region or so like " Reichshauptquartier Ukraine"

Yes!
It will be interesting to those"region based" HQ-s give some anti-partisan bonuses,therefore units unther their command will deal better with partisans?
I mean better than frontal,operative HQ-s.
Actualy I allways felt that those garrison storry is haevily inacurate in HOI2.

It will be elegant by this model to put simple one-brigade Divisions as garrisons.
First:Some HQ-s if "land-based" will give extra antirebel performance to its suboordinated units.
And infantery itself should have greater antipartisan capabilities.

Therefore,maybee HQ-s should be devided in:

1-Operational HQ-s_Combat frontal,manuverable formations.
2-Region-based HQ-s-non-movable(like todays garrisons),but with extra land-controll capabilities given to its units.And garrisons and police therefore will be history
Thank you guys.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

I like this idea, but it seems rather complicated. Lets make it even further complicated

The Army and Army groups HQs work like aircraft, but on a ground scale. IE, when you arder an army or army group HQ to move to a provice, it won´t actually move to that province, but to that area (the larger ones like Russian and the Ukraine). This HQ will take up position in either predefined "capitols" of these areas (Like Moscow in Russia or Kiev in the Ukraine) or in the most valued province in the region, should the capitol not be in your control.

In this movement, the Corps HQs follow along, and will position themselves in the smaller regions (Like Kursk region, or South Scotland) in the larger area, again selecting the most valued province. Then the individual division HQs will spread out through the individual provinces, again putting themselves in the most valuable provinces.

Of course, if you want to configure where the units are going, you will be free to do so. If you then want just a portion of the army or army group, you can simply detach a corps HQ or a division HQ and move it elsewhere.

Just a pipe dream (and a rather complicated one at that) I know, but I was captivated by this. *dreams on*

 

[unmerged(54763)]

I like this idea, but it seems rather complicated. Lets make it even further complicated

The Army and Army groups HQs work like aircraft, but on a ground scale. IE, when you arder an army or army group HQ to move to a provice, it won´t actually move to that province, but to that area (the larger ones like Russian and the Ukraine). This HQ will take up position in either predefined "capitols" of these areas (Like Moscow in Russia or Kiev in the Ukraine) or in the most valued province in the region, should the capitol not be in your control.

In this movement, the Corps HQs follow along, and will position themselves in the smaller regions (Like Kursk region, or South Scotland) in the larger area, again selecting the most valued province. Then the individual division HQs will spread out through the individual provinces, again putting themselves in the most valuable provinces.

Of course, if you want to configure where the units are going, you will be free to do so. If you then want just a portion of the army or army group, you can simply detach a corps HQ or a division HQ and move it elsewhere.

Just a pipe dream (and a rather complicated one at that) I know, but I was captivated by this. *dreams on*

Well It is easy to imagine Manstein, Rommel, Mongomery,sitting in their light planes moving them around battlefield.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

When I said air units, I ment it as on a regional rather than province scale.

 

[unmerged(54763)]

What I dreamed about is haevy advanced system of maps and unit presentation on maps.

I am tallking about HQ-s not as phisical units ,but as represents of lidership and suboordinition.
Maps must folow that.
What I mean?

Map modes according to formation levels.

map mode 1_shows only division level HQ-s,this actualy shows all single divisions on battlefield.

map mode 2-shows army and corps level HQ-s

map mode 3.shows only army group level HQ-s

If player wishes micromanagement of all divisions-map mod 1,
large scale -.mode 3.

aditional map mode-one unit mode,for example clik on Army HQ shows only suboordinated unit of this HQ on map.

Oh,and i forget to say important thing.Stacking penalty-there is no one in this model.Because stacks are set during unit fomations,and becuse of non-province based command,there is no ovestacking.

What is and must be implemented by this concept though,is something like
"overcrowding".Every province will have its "troop bearing"or "troop traversing" value.
What I mean?Can anyone imagine putting 100 divisions in the area of size of Malta?In HOI2 it is possible to do that.
In"my dream" this will be important factor.There will be need to rewrite all globe to set provinces values of "Troop bearing" and (combination of infrasctructure,dimensions of province and terrain characteristics).

 

[unmerged(54763)]

When I said air units, I ment it as on a regional rather than province scale.

I tought so.And I dont think that your idea increases complexity.I think something like this will be needed to control endless micromanagement.

 

[snoopy1710]

I actually like that idea - especially if I look at the "Chain of command" side of it. Right now it doesn't matter who is in charge of your HQs (as long as it as at least a full General), and it is not a valid strategy to put your best officers in charge of the HQs behind the front line (unless you include them into the fighting stacks like I do purely to minimize MM).

What I would like to see is a chain of command from Army Group -> Army -> Corps down with the benefits of the higher level command passed on to lower level to a certain degree. On the other hand there has to be a communication distance limitation (ie AG -> Army 3 provinces, Army -> Corps 2 provinces) which incurr penalties if overstretched.

Snoopy