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jju_57

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Yeah I understand. But I honestly couldn't answer that question now mate. I know as little as you do of Paradox' plans. So in the meantime, we'll have to sit tight I guess... and hope this place doesn't go up in flames ;)

Thank You Vulture. i appreciate the candid response and answer. Please pass on the word that many of just want to hear from PI and to have some reassurances given that they are aware of the issues and that they have not only a plan but a commitment to fix them.
 

Premu

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1) They had a contract with someone where they had to release it no matter the state of the product.

2) They were running short of money and needed a capital infusion to keep them going. A product like HOI3 generates cash so this was a way to help them out.

3) They felt that the issues weren't that big and that a patch or two would fix them all in a short time period.

Well, I see a fourth option:

4) The Beta version had far more severe bugs than the release version, so that many bugs and weaknesses couldn't be discovered due to instability or things like that. You won't recognize a memory leak if you have a CtD each 30 minutes.

I personally believe this was the case.
 

Tayran

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I want to put in my 2 cents before this thread gets closed and people banned.
EDIT: Hehe, I see that the vulture-bashing post got deleted. So I guess the thread stays alive then.

Ive been with paradox from the very start (Svea rike - Svea rike 2 - Svea rike 3 - EU1 etc etc).
EU1 I have to say was the most playable 1.0 game. HOI1 had many many bugs that made it unplayable until later on.

I have however stood by PI all these years cause, as someone pointed out earlier, the "finished" product after patches and mods is the simply the best.

So even though I curse the AA, weather, supply and trade. I still play around with the game, mod it etc, and most importantly wait for the next patch so that I in a few months can enjoy a decent game.

Look at EU3, it took years for that to be playable.

Sure it is indeed strange that they have the stomach to release a basically unfinished, unplayable game. But whats the alternative? Playing ETW or CIV4? Hell no.
 

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Windows 7 is a pre release software / operating system that does not have any customer support or tech support.

I assume you have to use programs as Adminstrator to be able to copy things over ( right click open as adminstrator etc ).

First part I know, but it is not my choice for playing games, I recently literally blew my HD out of my computer. This is just a dualboot I already had to test Windows 7. Nonetheless, my question and remark are to the point.

And yes, you are correct with your assumption. The Admin is not the issue, it is more that I cannot find the backed-up files after replacing the files...
 

unmerged(141124)

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Let's take one very spicific bug, weather. No one can say that this system is working. Some ignore it but that doesn't mean it isn't broken. Many of us have been trying to play with variables to see hwat happens and maybe get a solution. Biut PI has not helped out at all in this effort. PI could release an explanation on what the variables do and what formulas are involved. Why hasn't something as simple as this been done?

They don't how to fix it. If they knew how, it would be fixed already. Same case with leaks.
 

RedRalphWiggum

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My 2c.

The game was released in a very bad state. Paradox cannot have been unaware of this. Paradox are a capitalist money making project. Business concerns come in, and my guess is they released the game when they did because they had to. In the interim, they have been communicating with us and working hard to get the game up to scratch, and they will, eventually. Will take a bit longer, but they will get there.

I would hope they won't do this again though. I cant wait for Vicky2 and will buy iy on day one, but will feel pretty let down if its in as bad a state as HoI3. There are bound to be a few problems, anyone with a brain knows that, but I would honestly rather they would delay a release date than release a game in such a bad state.

The saving grace is that they are aware of these problems, are talking to us, and will fix them probably within a few weeks or months.
 

Erebos

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Well, I see a fourth option:

4) The Beta version had far more severe bugs than the release version, so that many bugs and weaknesses couldn't be discovered due to instability or things like that. You won't recognize a memory leak if you have a CtD each 30 minutes.

I personally believe this was the case.

A bug hidden by an other bug and therefore not spotted ... that actually sounds reasonable, especially if you run on tight schedule and are happy to finally have isolated that nasty CTD bug.
 

jju_57

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The game runs fine on my system. Even before 1.2, it ran fine. Now it runs very fine. Nice and speedy during the pre-war years where there are fewer decisions to make.

I therefore assume that anyone who says the game is unplayable to them is one of the following:
1. A Liar
2. Using a hacked copy that is causing some kind of problem.
3. Too stupid to actually play the game, so the hard parts of the game appear to be bugs to them (for example, command structures).
4. Using a computer that has some kind of pre-existing problem like malware or poor drivers or just plain fubar.
5. Actual victim of a real bug, thus you should complain to the bug forum.

If the game is not unplayable to them, then no further complaints are really that valid to me. The game is moddable. You can change anything you dont like. Dont like the drift system? Set all drift variables to zero. Dont like the 6 month build time for airbases? Cut it to 3 months, or a day. Whatever you want.

And if you are too lazy to mod, then here's a quarter. Call someone who cares.

Sir, I think you qualify as what one poster declared are the few who never see anything worng with PI or their games. If you don't like valid complaints then please don't read them.
 

unmerged(154518)

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I therefore assume that anyone who says the game is unplayable to them is one of the following:
1. A Liar

Ah, we're all liars. I'd have a few choice words to say in return, but I'm not sure what would happen if I managed to rack up three infractions in one night. I'll let your imagine fill it in for you, okay?

2. Using a hacked copy that is causing some kind of problem.

You can't register a hacked copy. Just about all of us are registered, so you lose on that point, buddy.

3. Too stupid to actually play the game, so the hard parts of the game appear to be bugs to them (for example, command structures).

Ah, so now we're liars AND we're stupid. Have you read the forum rules lately? I'm pointing at the rules sticky with a finger for you. Can you guess which one I'm using?

4. Using a computer that has some kind of pre-existing problem like malware or poor drivers or just plain fubar.

You mean someone who owns a Windows machine. What are you running the game on, Linux?

5. Actual victim of a real bug, thus you should complain to the bug forum.

Already did. I found a bug no one else managed to catch, or at least it appears so. On the others I was beat to the punch by a huge crowd of very disgruntled gamers.

If the game is not unplayable to them, then no further complaints are really that valid to me.

If you're happy with the game then great, more power to you. But calling people liars and idiots, and then telling them they have no business expressing their opinion - which, according to Paradox, is perfectly acceptable and part of the rules in the sticky - is just plain obnoxious. You've taken fanboyism to new heights.

And if you are too lazy to mod, then here's a quarter. Call someone who cares.

Mod the weather system so it works. Mod supply so it works. Mod the corrupt saves bugs. Really, go ahead; you're such a great modder, let's see you fix these bugs.
 

unmerged(152912)

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Entering my "darkside".

Who says that after paying 40$ you are still living?

*still wonder what golfers do when there is a lightning storm*

To get a lifetime of golf for $40...I'd have to sell my soul to the devil. So living would be have to be part of the deal. Boy this little mini-conversation has really gotten way off topic of the perilous battle between good and evil (err, I mean is HOI3 great or awful).
 

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Entering my "darkside".

Who says that after paying 40$ you are still living?

*still wonder what golfers do when there is a lightning storm*

Golfers live?

On a side note, Or rather back on topic,

While I enjoyed the game, I was displeased at the notion that it was broken out of the box, egg, WW2 where carriers are about as usefull as trowing rocks at the enemy and the like.. But the patches helped.
 

Dale

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If this game only cost $40 I wouldn't mind waiting. However, in Australia it's hit the shelf at $90 (full big-title price).

As I've said before, for $90 it is not unreasonable to expect a product to work out of the box.
 

lordashran

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Sorry i dont want to intrude, but does anyone remember when doomsday was released? I do, and I do also remember a lot of people complaining back then and many many saying (and actually doing it) to wait for at least six months to buy it until its playable.
And that was an expansion. (ok it was standalone, but HOI2 has been out for a whole while when it came out and worked pretty fine at that point)

About memory leaks being easy to fix (!?) Mass Effect for example has still after a long, long time memory leaks that force me to restart the game every few hours. Great game btw but the pc version, for many people, makes more problems than fun.

Sorry for the small intrusion :)

Paradox as long as I can remember had the best, or at least among the best, patching policies of all gaming companies whose games i played.

Asking them for a statement like "yes, we will patch the game." is a bit rude i think.

Now Hoi3 was a "bad" release in the sense that it wasnt working as designed in all parts, but in less than a month we allready had two patches that vastly improved it. So where the concern, about not getting enough support, is coming from, I dont really get.

I find it actually bitter to see how harsh people are with a small company compared to how lenient they are with bigger companies, but maybe its more fun kicking the little guy, I dont know.

But dont get me wrong, as long as its done in a civilized manner i really like reading the complaints and think they are essential to the further development of hoi3.

I dont see Paradox's business model has changed in the last years, so I dont expect a big impact of a buggy game at release, what i do see, and i might be wrong,
is that most bashing/ranting/flaming/refund requests etc come from people new to paradox, at least the forum activity of said posters before the release of hoi3 suggests that to me.

So when Vicky 2 comes out I do expect it to be pretty buggy, unless there is something big going on behind the scenes with thousands of users wanting their money back I dont see why paradox "should" even change their business model. (if its even financially feasable to only release a game every two to three years)

Drink a cup of tea and relax, if you dont like it bring it back, if you dont like it because its bugged then put it away until the next patch or a big bugfixing mod comes out and try it again then.
Sometimes even a few days distance might result in a change of perspective and you just might find yourself enjoying the game, even in this state.
Some people on the forum obviously are...

peace ... wait wrong forum :D
 

unmerged(156866)

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Sir, I think you qualify as what one poster declared are the few who never see anything worng with PI or their games. If you don't like valid complaints then please don't read them.

Wrong.

There are lots of problems with PI games. Just no point in bemoaning them.

If you have an actual bug, report it on the bug forum and get it fixed in the next patch. If you dont have an actual bug, but just dont like it, solve your problem by modding.

I have been modding since I bought the game. Obviously, I am changing things that I dont like. I just dont come on here and go "why is the OOB for Germany so stupidly constructed? I have to spend 15 minutes every new game fixing it. ARGH!" There is no point in that. I just fixed the OOB myself and now every new game doesnt begin with restructuring the OOB.

Complaining out in this forum is just for the sake of complaint, just to make yourself feel good, just to release your stress, just a result of your own anger management problems.
 

unmerged(152912)

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If this game only cost $40 I wouldn't mind waiting. However, in Australia it's hit the shelf at $90 (full big-title price).

As I've said before, for $90 it is not unreasonable to expect a product to work out of the box.

I've got to admit...if I had to pay $90, I definetly would have waited. Sorry mate to hear how expensive things are down there. BTW, lovely country you've got...can't wait to get back and visit!
 

Erebos

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Entering my "darkside".

Who says that after paying 40$ you are still living?

*still wonder what golfers do when there is a lightning storm*

Well, we go to a nice place called the "19th hole" and brag about good shots. :D

@Dale:
"If this game only cost $40 I wouldn't mind waiting. However, in Australia it's hit the shelf at $90 (full big-title price)."

How much is that in "real" money? Let's say Pound Sterling or Euro? :)
 

jju_57

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They don't how to fix it. If they knew how, it would be fixed already. Same case with leaks.

Agreed they don't know the fix. But why not tell us what the variables mean or at least what they are supposed to be doing? And maybe a formula or two on how the variables were supposed to interract. Let the community try and help them. But we can't, or at least it makes it much harder, if they don't first clear up some basic questions.

For example for weather a few poeple think it might be a divide by 100 issue for a variable. But without the formula we can onluy change one item then test, change another itme then test, then change the first two items then test, etc. Much easier of you knew the formula was (A + B + Z) /100 then we can change A, B and Z and test just that one.
 
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