HoI3: A Serious Resource Hog?

[Augustus244]

EU2 decent graphics. I could see what was going on and with what. EU3 won't run without PixelShader 2.0. Why? Because somebody decided that games should push for as close to RL as possible. If you can't see the sweat on the forehead of your troops then you haven't upped the gameplay since the last one.

Why can't games have the option of 2D for those of us who don't have the ability or desire to eye candy? It certainly wouldn't be harder to use spites instead of perfectly realistic models. No?

I think game makers should ask themselves "What is the minimum a computer should have to do to get the experience we want across?" instead of "How hard can we push this thing?".

its a cycle, programs push hardware, then programs catch up, and repeat. just the way the business goes.

 

[unmerged(77286)]

Unless you buy an ASUS W90 Series W90Vp-X2 NoteBook Intel Core 2 Quad Q9000(2.00GHz), 18.4" Wide UXGA, 6GB Memory, 320GB HDD 7200rpm, Multi ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4870 X2 w/1Gb dedicated GFX memory. like mine. But that''s dropping about $2500USD.

$2500? please i can get that for $1700 with taxes included and add a 1200W power supply to boot.

And on the topic yeah looks like you need a minor upgrade mate. laptops are not gaming material in first place, nothing beats nice upgradable desktop.

 

[Deo89]

Can someone try this out?

="http://www. * hardforum * .com/showthread.php?t=983781"


I will do it when I'll have the time.

 

[unmerged(74599)]

Double post due to site lag.

 

[unmerged(57561)]

Don't think anyone has said this yet, but might all this be the result of people wanting a lot more provinces?

 

[unmerged(74599)]

Yes.

You should always look at the system requirements before pre-ordering or buying a game. You also should have thought about what Paradox's recent games (EU3 and Rome) were like, and how the graphical presentation has been improved considerably.

If the patch's fix the lag for middle to high-end computer, you could consider buying a cheap desktop (not from a company like gateway, but the parts) that could run it. An Athlon X3 720 CPU would be a good place to start, it's cheap and should be able to play this game fine.

I am running Rome VV on 1.8 Ghtz Sempron CPU, and the issue has been RAM not CPU speed: 2 gigs RAM and 512 ATI video card. On the other hand Rome has hardly any units in comparison to HOI III, so it seems we will be losing a lot of HOI stalwarts due to the system requirements.

The Demo played sufficiently well but I expect that will change as the units increase and the number crunching becomes phenomenal. That said, I can not see, how you would get the maximum out of the game system without playing those campaigns at slow anyway, given the level of mircomanagement required, even when you set the French front to auto.

I conquered Poland in about an hour, but got rolled in the Saar, the first time out.

I will say this, while the interface has its problems, and there are some definite ergonomics issues to be cleared up, this combat system is by far and away superior to the HOI II system. What would my preference be at this point... this combat system applied to the old map and production interface.

 

[unmerged(20913)]

HOI3 is not CPU or GPU intensive. It uses a lot of RAM. That's been my finding atleast.

i have 4gb's of ram and it still runs like shit, only uses about 2gb's of ram really probably 1.5 gb's last time i looked.

its definately CPU intensive. It uses 100% of 1 core and like 15% of a 2nd one, but thats it.

 

[unmerged(74599)]

And you are running Vista?

 

[unmerged(144035)]

Why are people moaning about graphics cards? Graphics are not the issue here since the game doesn't have high end graphics to render, but, the issue here is the CPU, 1.6Ghz... Cmon, are you kidding me? This will never run a game that need so much calculation as HoI3, I mean, 14,000 thousand provinces, thousands of divisions including brigades all over the map, logistics, produciton, math math math, and all that, calculated hourly in a game that spans 8 years.

People wanted depth? There you have it.

The game surely has a lot of issues, I have a PC with a Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.8Ghz processor, 1Gig of Ram and a xHD 4500 graphics card, XP 32-bit SP2, and the game lags as hell, and didn't have the time to see if I could optimize it somehow or find the problem (guess it's ether the RAM or XP has trouble running the game like so many other people reported here), but you really can't expect to run this with a 1.6Ghz processor (even if it's a dual core).

i dont know how its not perfect on mine lol

i have a quad core, 4 gigs ram, like 400 GB HD,ATI Radeon 3200 256 MB it should run perfect but no

i have 64 bit vista.

 

[cpappa]

I haven't played the demo yet (still downloading), but I should have no problems running it. I recently upgraded my cpu from a Quad Core Q6600 to a Q9550 overclocked to 3.4 GHz and graphics card from a Nvidia 8800GT to a GTX 275 all for only $387. That plus my 6 GB of RAM should easily run this beast of a game.

 

[cpappa]

i dont know how its not perfect on mine lol

i have a quad core, 4 gigs ram, like 400 GB HD,ATI Radeon 3200 256 MB it should run perfect but no

i have 64 bit vista.

Your graphics card seems a bit old IMHO.

 

[cynicalyouth]

People with integrated graphics cards need to realize that these often share ram with the system. So if you have 2 gig of ram and vista you have 1g after system stuff and then the videocard grabs itself 1/2 of that and you have 500mb of ram for the game. slow city.

 

[Oerdin]

Now, I guess I could go out drop $1000 on a new LAPTOP but in this economy?

Come on.

Should I think "refund?"

HELP!

I would. It is pretty clear the game is a shoddy beta right now so I say don't reward them for half finished work. Wait until they patch the game with some nice large patches because lord knows judging by the Demo it badly, badly, badly needs some massive patches.

 

[dertechie]

Why can't games have the option of 2D for those of us who don't have the ability or desire to eye candy? It certainly wouldn't be harder to use spites instead of perfectly realistic models. No?

I think game makers should ask themselves "What is the minimum a computer should have to do to get the experience we want across?" instead of "How hard can we push this thing?".

Do not assume 2D = faster and easier on the hardware. Adding a 2D render pathway adds additional complexity to a project (i.e. more bugs to squish!), and would most likely be done on the CPU rather than GPU, adding to the workload of the CPU. If your GPU can't handle it, adding that load to the (likely overtaxed) CPU certainly won't help things.

As an example, you could often double your frame rate or more in fleet battles in EVE Online by turning off the 2D UI as some people did to take screenshots sometimes. Yes, there were other calculations besides rendering to make the UI work, but the difference was stunning.

 

[unmerged(119031)]

$2500? please i can get that for $1700 with taxes included and add a 1200W power supply to boot.

And on the topic yeah looks like you need a minor upgrade mate. laptops are not gaming material in first place, nothing beats nice upgradable desktop.

Meh, lucky b*******, here in Argentina I have to pay twice that price for that comp.

 

[unmerged(61401)]

Okay gentlemen, facts coming up.

HOI3 depends primarily on a _real_ GPU. Period. This is the price of the Clausewitz engine's 3D GUI.

Next: have at least 2Gb RAM for fluent gameplay (including OS). On Mac (where the Intel GMA users the system RAM!) I don't even need pagefiles (swap) using this amount, but just barely. Using a real 3D card, you probably won't even need 2Gb. But that should be default either way.

And at last, as fast as possible: this is the CPU.

First example, I play EU3 on my Mac Mini 1.8 Core2Duo, 2Gb RAM, Intel GMA910 3D "accelerator" card. It has really low FPS, as nothing serious could be expected from Intel's crap integrated stuff. Just don't use them, ever. I'm even buying a MacBook Pro soon. Actually the game' quite enjoyable for me, because ever since using PC's, I got used to always being left behind in terms of computing power (playing Doom on slow 80386, etc).

Second example, Hearts of Iron 3 Demo on a gamer PC I put together for Fallout 3. Core 2 Duo >2Ghz, NVidia 9600. You guessed, it's more than enough for HoI3.

What's the solution? Well there is none. No developer loves their users as much as (or at all) to include both 2D and 3D user interfaces in their games in 2009. Unless the GUI is _really_ well developed for _this purpose_ from the beginning, it will probably always be a huge bug source.

And you can't expect no one doing this either. Get a decent graphics card. Just look where the world is headed (ever since the Amiga died) Is it shit? Yes. Will it change? No.

 

[THRILLHOUSE]

The problem is almost never the CPU or GPU in Paradox games, it's a matter of poor coding. The GPU requirements are basically nil, anything non-integrated will do fine. None of them are multithreaded at all, they can't even take advantage of what some of the most low-end users have. My computer has an AMD Phenom 9850, 4GB of RAM, and a GeForce GTX 260. I can run any new FPS and pretty much max out their settings. The HOI3 demo, on the other hand, runs slow as molasses. The game runs on the first day of 1939 about as well as HOI2 does by the end of 1944. It's insanity. The game wastes so many CPU cycles on calculating stupid things like wind speed and humidity, which I can say with almost absolute confidence I will never take into account on one of my campaigns.

I'm praying that a patch is made that enables the use of my other three cores soon after this is released, or I'm sticking to Armageddon (and not continuing past 1944 for this same reason :v).

 

[Gatkramp]

Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T2330
1.6 GHz | 1 MB L2 cache | 533 MHz FSB

A relatively low spec processor in the current gaming climate.

Memory 2048 MB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2 × 1024)
Operates at 533 MHz Total slots: 2 DDR2 slots | Available slots: 0 DDR2 slots

2Gb Ram is now seen as a bare minimum in gaming. Many in fact see 3Gb to be the bare minimum, with some opting for 6Gb. I, in my gaming PC, have 8 Gb.

Video controller Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator X3100

Up to 384 MB of Dynamic Video Memory

This is plain shit. Laptops with Media Accelerators are not, and never will be, made for gaming. If you were interested in gaming you should have gotten a computer with a proper video card.

Dynamic Video Memory doesn't mean anything really. The speed of the video card is what counts. Media Accelarators just don't do the job for gaming.

NOTE: I'm running windows VISTA 32 Serice Pack 2 - all MS updates applied

Moreover, I've optimized VISTA to run for "pure performance." I've disabled all the bells and whistles; and have it set for program performance. Virtual Memory is optimized and it runs "everything" i use VERY, VERY, VERY fast.

But it's still the bare minimum (with some falling bellow) for a Vista machine. It might seem fast, but it really isn't. To increase performance even more, I recommend disabling many of the services that run in the background (if they aren't used by you ever).

Now, I realize this isn't a 2009 model (it's a 2007 which I got in October of '07).

But it's not a 5 or 10 year old machine.

I got mine at start 2007 (in NZ, which is 6 months to a year behind the rest of the world in PCs). It is just a normal HP laptop. It still canes your laptop.

If your going to game with a laptop, don't buy the cheapest one you can find. Being cheap never pays off. And don't complain. If your cheap, shit aint gonna work right. Me. I have a laptop, which is not intended for gaming, which is better than your laptop.

Now you're saying refund? Your entire post just makes me think cheap. If you want to use a crap computer to play games, buy old games. Not new ones, then demand refunds. Especially not when you have only played the demo.

 

[cpappa]

Wow on my pc it runs very fast and smooth. It loads up in less than ten seconds. Scrolling across the map is very quick for me. Currently crushing Poland with an all out blitz.

My PC specs

Intel Q9550 overclocked to 3.4 GHz
Nvidia GTX 275 896 MB with 190.56 drivers
6 GB RAM
Vista Ultimate 64-bit

 

[unmerged(143159)]

I have owned and played:

Hearts of Iron 1
Hearts of Iron 2
HoI2 - Doomsday
HoI2 - Armageddon

All ran very well on all PCs and owned laptops (HoI2 - Armagedon would have some memory overruns when playing a full campaign from 1936-1964 which would cause the AI to produce "ghost fleets" and time - on the fastest setting - would slow down considerably in the later years but still made it to the end).

About a year and 1/2 a go I bought a "new" laptop here are the specs:

Gateway M-6315

- Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T2330
1.6 GHz | 1 MB L2 cache | 533 MHz FSB

- Chipset Intel® GL960

- Display panel 15.4-inch Ultrabright™ WXGA TFT display (1280 × 800)

- Memory 2048 MB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2 × 1024)
Operates at 533 MHz Total slots: 2 DDR2 slots | Available slots: 0 DDR2 slots

- Video controller Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator X3100
Up to 384 MB of Dynamic Video Memory

- Audio High definition audio - 2 channel

- Hard drive 250 GB 5400 RPM SATA hard drive

- Optical drive 8X Multi-Format Dual Layer DVDRW with DVD-RAM
Write maximum: 8X DVD +/-R, 6X DVD-RW, 8X DVD+RW, 2X DVD-R DL, 2.4X DVD+R DL, 5X DVD-RAM, 24X CD-R and 16X CD-RW discs
Read maximum: 8X DVD-R/RW/ROM, 4X DVD+/-R DL, 5X DVD-RAM, 24X CD-R/RW/ROM discs

NOTE: I'm running windows VISTA 32 Serice Pack 2 - all MS updates applied

Moreover, I've optimized VISTA to run for "pure performance." I've disabled all the bells and whistles; and have it set for program performance. Virtual Memory is optimized and it runs "everything" i use VERY, VERY, VERY fast.

Now, I realize this isn't a 2009 model (it's a 2007 which I got in October of '07).

But it's not a 5 or 10 year old machine.

So, I recieved an EMAIL from Paradox/Gamergate RE: HoI3 (free sprites if I pre-ordered) - I did.

Then I down loaded the DEMO last night...

MY GOD its SLOW AS "F*CK!!!!

1) It takes FOREVER to load...

2) I can't scroll the map...a simple move jumps the map from the heart of Germany to the middle of the Atlantic Ocean in a second (after considerable lag)...

3) I can't ZOOM in or OUT - The "+" or "-" keys which allowed for ZOOM in the previous games DON'T WORK - I had to attach an external optical mouse with a scroll wheel to zoom in closer...

4) TIME on the fastest setting moves at a SNAILs pace.

I'm deeply concerned.

I was such a fan of the previous games but if the DEMO runs this badly on a slighlty above average machine I think it's a problem.

Now, I guess I could go out drop $1000 on a new LAPTOP but in this economy?

Come on.

Should I think "refund?"

HELP!

1. It's not Paradox's fault that you have a 5400 RPM hard disk.
2. Intel integrated GPU's are by far the worst you can find. Even 5 year-old dedicated GPU's are better than them.
4. That's because you have a low-end CPU.

Now, really, if you call you laptop slightly above average, it proves that you have absolutely no idea about computers. Your machine is low-end. I'm not joking. My 400$ computer ( I built it, but with good stuff, not no-name PSU's ) runs the game pretty deecent, but I still am not happy with it, because I'm used to playing at high-speeds.
Now, I guess you could drop 500$ on an average PC ( that's about 800$ if you buy an already configured one by companies like HP, Dell etc. ) and play the game fine after the frist few patches. If you want to game on a laptop, you either pay loads of cash on an above average laptop or have lag at slowest speed and wait 5 minutes for the game to load.
The fact thatr HoI3 is a lot more of a resource hog than other PI games is the result of the huge complexity of the game. You can't expect it to run like HoI2, when they added : Supply system, weather system, a lot more complex AI, AI management of own troops, a lot more complex tech and diplomacy, realistic Intelligence system, and many other stuff. Also, they have used a 3D engine just to keep up with the rest of the world and to ease the work on the processor. The graphical requirements are low, you can run it with an 50$ GPU at decent resolutions.
After understanding that your laptop really sucks, you have a few alternatives:
- buy a decent Pc and run it at decent speed ( decent=500$ )
- buy a medium-high laptop ( over 1000$ ) and play slower than with the 500$ Pc
- play Arma.