HoI3 1.4 and the future

[Surt]

Having played a lot the last days I found some more features I'd like in the future.

Having trouble keeping the units in range of its HQ
light up its parents outline in green for in range, red for out of range.
light up its child units in another/hatched red/green.
- Future: an option to set the HQ to automatic follow its units when they are in manual control

Keyboard navigation in the OOB for the selected unit, what would be needed was keys for
up to next higher
next sibling (including air and navy?)
first child unit

 

[VetMax]

I was actually thinking of something like this: What would be included in the first expansion? And the answer I came up with was pretty much the usual (which would be good).

The "Rise of the Reich" expansion might include (I just made that name up, by the way):

Are you neo-nazi? Shame on you.

 

[ashandresash]

Having played a lot the last days I found some more features I'd like in the future.

Having trouble keeping the units in range of its HQ
light up its parents outline in green for in range, red for out of range.
light up its child units in another/hatched red/green.
- Future: an option to set the HQ to automatic follow its units when they are in manual control

Keyboard navigation in the OOB for the selected unit, what would be needed was keys for
up to next higher
next sibling (including air and navy?)
first child unit

+1

I'm playing more intensively too these last days, trying manual (I used to keep units controlled at army level) and I'd find quite helpful such an alert / tool.

 

[Rich Oliver]

I begin to wonder at the wisdom of any computer game company marketing any computer game, ever. As soon as this happens, it seems to flee people's heads that what is being advertised is a computer game. Suddenly, they expect a super-detailed simulation of history (according to their own, inevitably biased view of it) correct in every detail. Instead of taking "computer games on the subject that have gone before" as their yardstick, suddenly they take "history itself" as their yardstick - against which any concievable computer game must necessarily come up short.

HoI3 gets away from scripted event chains where certain actions are un-punished because the considerations that applied in real history do not apply - only the scripted event sequence is relevant.

Yes, HOI3 is a game. Paradox can make any type of games they want. Customers are free to buy or not and like or not any games they want. If HOI3 had gone more in the direction I'd like, I would probably have already shelled out for the new computer that I need to play HOI3.

However I think two things are getting confused here. Is this a WWII game? and is this game as detailed and accurate and sophisticated as we'd ideally like? Trying to make a good WWII game makes sense. Where as trying to make a comparable Europa game for the EU period is ridiculous. EU wipes the floor with anything that I ever came across in terms of board games, although I confess I never played the original Europa Universalis board game, Similarly Victoria wipes the floor with any board games that I know of for that period.

Hearts of Iron on the other hand, I have always found somewhat disappointing. In my book it doesn't feel as realistic as World in Flames and it feels way, way less realistic than partial WWII games like the Europa series, the Longest Day and the Operational Art of War. For me it seems that HOI3 has taken a large step further in the wrong direction. What I and I suspect others would like to see is a game that takes the huge resources of a modern PC and models WWII semi competently. Corps level would be a good start. It doesn't need to model the difference between Rumanian and Brazilian Mountain artillery muzzle velocity or the track width of the hypothetical Nepalese heavy tank army. Some things should be kept simple, initially Design the game for WWII as a two side game, with special rules, capabilities and limitations for each of the two sides, axis and allies. We don't need a separate faction for South Africa, We don't need game mechanics for Sweden to possibly join the Axis or the Commintern and El Salvador doesn't even need to be in the game at all. Get the game to work well as a two side game, before making it more complicated by making the SU, Japan and Italy in to independent player/AI factions, then may be think about separating the US and Britain, with special rules for them to be able to work together.

 

[Shabz]

Some things should be kept simple. Initially Design the game for WWII as a two side game, with special rules, capabilities and limitations for each of the two sides, axis and allies. We don't need a separate faction for South Africa, We don't need game mechanics for Sweden to possibly join the Axis or the Commintern and El Salvador doesn't even need to be in the game at all. Get the game to work well as a two side game, before making it more complicated by making the SU, Japan and Italy in to independent player/AI factions, then may be think about separating the US and Britain, with special rules for them to be able to work together.

Maybe we could play Axis and Allies, while we're at it? Or Risk? Come on, this ability to try different things is essential to HOI. I agree it should perhaps be hard to get some countries to change their position internationally. But impossible? No.

 

[Rich Oliver]

Maybe we could play Axis and Allies, while we're at it? Or Risk?

The first game that I compared HOI to was World in Flames. What has that got to do with the childish simplicity and crudeness of Axis and Allies or Risk?

 

[Shabz]

The first game that I compared HOI to was World in Flames. What has that got to do with the childish simplicity and crudeness of Axis and Allies or Risk?

It was an attempt on irony. I do not think limiting the game in any way would be desirable. I fail to see why shouldn't we be able to influence nations to our faction. Granted, it should (and is) impossible to get them out of faction once in, except through warfare.

On the other hand you may have a point on the corps. Corps is the lowest unit that makes sense gamewise. However, it is already an option, you can form army and play exclusively with corps, or play with divisions. Or with army groups or armies. Or you can only concentrate on the production part of game. Or only on military, micromanaging all units, though I don't see me playing with AI control of research, production espionage or diplomacy...

 

[Rich Oliver]

It was an attempt on irony. I do not think limiting the game in any way would be desirable. I fail to see why shouldn't we be able to influence nations to our faction. Granted, it should (and is) impossible to get them out of faction once in, except through warfare.

On the other hand you may have a point on the corps. Corps is the lowest unit that makes sense gamewise. However, it is already an option, you can form army and play exclusively with corps, or play with divisions. Or with army groups or armies. Or you can only concentrate on the production part of game. Or only on military, micromanaging all units, though I don't see me playing with AI control of research, production espionage or diplomacy...

Well for me its all about priorities, not trying to run before you can walk and not trying to walk before you can crawl. Primarily where the the developer concentrates their time and energy, secondarily where the user's computing power is focused.

Ok just off the top of my head. I'd say the first major goal is to get a game that works with human players for all the major factions, the following spring to mind as major challenges for that first major goal.

Modelling the limitations of supply in Barborossa and North Africa.

The restrictions and constraints of Amphibious invasions.

The complexities of the Pacific war.

The Atlantic U Boat war.

The second major goal might be to build semi competent semi AIs to manage these systems for the major factions.

We've had three versions two expansions and numerous patches and I'm not sure that HOI can be said to have even achieved goal one.

 

[unmerged(12303)]

From this thread:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461006&page=2

you can have more control - Paradox can easily add a few short cuts in the some areas:

Like: when you select a stack of units they could add a button on the top - create HQ - which would attach the stack to a new HQ formed. Easy plus helps a lot when you have a lot of units comming out
Like: when you select a stack you could show the total width of the whole stack plus individual widths of the units.
Like: highlighting units up the chain of command - not only down the chain.
Like: adding an autofollow option for hq level XXX, XXXX and XXXXX of a predifined amount of terrains so the AI can move those HQ's forward when you have no time to do it IF YOU CHOOSE.
Like: add a number display just off the left top icon to indicate the total width of the stack
Like: even scrap the lvl XXX's so as to reduce the ammount of micro needed / plus increase what lvls XXXX can have under them.

 

[unmerged(178804)]

patch 1.4

Question: on internet it says i can download 1.4 from servers you have to pay for, but when i downloaded the latest content for the game it didn't say it was patch 1.4.
Is 1.4 out or not?
Thanks, Dan

 

[Kallocain]

Question: on internet it says i can download 1.4 from servers you have to pay for, but when i downloaded the latest content for the game it didn't say it was patch 1.4.
Is 1.4 out or not?
Thanks, Dan

Servers you have to pay for? Are you talking about fileplanet or something? Please show me the link where it says this, it is not true.

1.4 is not out yet, we expect it to be release for beta sometime this week.

 

[Ipmil]

Regarding your thoughts

Well for me its all about priorities, not trying to run before you can walk and not trying to walk before you can crawl. Primarily where the the developer concentrates their time and energy, secondarily where the user's computing power is focused.

Ok just off the top of my head. I'd say the first major goal is to get a game that works with human players for all the major factions, the following spring to mind as major challenges for that first major goal.

Modelling the limitations of supply in Barborossa and North Africa.

The restrictions and constraints of Amphibious invasions.

The complexities of the Pacific war.

The Atlantic U Boat war.

The second major goal might be to build semi competent semi AIs to manage these systems for the major factions.

We've had three versions two expansions and numerous patches and I'm not sure that HOI can be said to have even achieved goal one.

I agree fullheartidly with your analysis and your aims with the game, insofar as to what you want to see with a WWII sim. I want exactly the same thing.

Cheers

 

[unmerged(164896)]

You should be allowed to annex a country if ALL the provinces are captured.

 

[Munin]

Recently upon reading a history book about WWII noticed the incredible gain of resources and information (of all kind) for germany when conquering other nations like for example:

When Hitler conquered Czechoslovakia the germans were glad to take over the Czechoslovakian military equipment + technology and they were of great importance to the further war effort of the germans. These newly gained panzers were used to equip the 6th, 7th and 8th german panzerdivisions: I ve found a link that expresses this importance even more: http://hosted.wargamer.com/Panzer/czech.html

Following the German occupation of Czechoslovakia, from 15 March 1939, all tanks in service with the Czech Army were taken over, as well as those in production under export contracts. The Germans designated the TNHP the PzKpfw 38(t) and continued its production until early 1942. They ordered the manufacturers to increase the frontal armor to 50mm, and that on the sides to 30mm. A total of 1168 tanks of this type was built for the Wehrmacht, and saw service in Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Greece and Russia, and formed a major part of the tank strength of Rommel's 7th Panzer Division during its rapid drive across Northern France in the 1940 campaign. During 1940-1941 the PzKpfw 38(t) formed 25% of the total German tank force, and its importance was therefore considerable, the vehicle being superior in hitting power to either the PzKpfw I or II. As late as 1944 the vehicle was still being used as an artillery observation vehicle.

In a game-environment this could be implemented by taking over a number of the tank/aircraft/naval divisions of Czechoslovakia (or any other country for that matter) as well as directly giving a technology boost (upgrading technology for free: only the technology that was already researched by the Chechs) and a boost to production of tanks (the production of Czechoslovakia is added to the German production list).


The germans also got very valiable information out of the Czech military intelligence agency archives giving the germans detailed information about the marginot line, this could be done by giving germany new free spies to replicate the intelligence boost.

 

[Cybvep]

Maybe during annexation the occupier should get some bonus to practicals, depending on annexed country's base values.

 

[TheLoneGunman]

Recently upon reading a history book about WWII noticed the incredible gain of resources and information (of all kind) for germany when conquering other nations like for example:

When Hitler conquered Czechoslovakia the germans were glad to take over the Czechoslovakian military equipment + technology and they were of great importance to the further war effort of the germans. These newly gained panzers were used to equip the 6th, 7th and 8th german panzerdivisions: I ve found a link that expresses this importance even more: http://hosted.wargamer.com/Panzer/czech.html




In a game-environment this could be implemented by taking over a number of the tank/aircraft/naval divisions of Czechoslovakia (or any other country for that matter) as well as directly giving a technology boost (upgrading technology for free: only the technology that was already researched by the Chechs) and a boost to production of tanks (the production of Czechoslovakia is added to the German production list).


The germans also got very valiable information out of the Czech military intelligence agency archives giving the germans detailed information about the marginot line, this could be done by giving germany new free spies to replicate the intelligence boost.

I'm pretty sure taking the Sudetenland from the Czechs gives you some leadership and IC. Which is the best way to represent most of this, with the exception of possibly the Czech tanks that had already been produced.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

One thing i'd like are some user interface improvements.

In hoi2, when you right click on a province, you get a popup there which has links to the diplomacy and intelligence of screens for that country - that would be real nice.

Also, so that moving across the diplomacy and intelligence screens maintains the same country instead of changing it to the last one.

And also it would be good to be able to shift+click to de-select a series of units from a selected combination (again like hoi2).

 

[ladner]

This is a long thread to get caught up on. I think towards the end of this thread there was a debate about game versus simulation, and in my own opinion this is the crux of the matter.

For those who think HOI III is a simulation of World War II, it comes up short, particularly in the areas of naval and air combat. If one views HOI III as a game, then it is up to par, and it is certainly an extremely detailed game. When I think back to playing Advanced Third Reich (ATR) boardgame, it is like the difference between checkers (ATR) and chess (HOI III).

From the webpage for HOI III

Genres
Grand Strategy

With nearly 15,000 provinces, Hearts of Iron III is not only five times larger than before, it’s also the most detailed depiction of World War II ever created.


now lets compare with a rival product which is limited in scope to just the Pacific Theater, which is War in the Pacific (WitP)

Field of Play: Operational
Unit Scale: Battalion with Individual Ships & Planes

As it pertains to naval and air combat the difference is again like that between chess and checkers, unfortunately in this case HOI III is more like checkers. From HOI III's own advertising the claim is made, "the most detailed depiction of World War II ever created", I can say right now from having played both games, the claim is not true, when one compares HOI III to WitP. I suppose an argument could be made that this is not an apples to apples comparison since one game covers all of WWII, whereas the other is limited to just a theater of WWII, but with respect to detail within the game, it is an accurate evaluation.

Having said that HOI III, does a better job of depicting land combat than WitP, even though HOI III has a greater level of abstraction. For many of us the Air-Sea campaign has been a source of frustration with how it has been implemented, and this has been ongoing since HOI I. I don't want these comments to be viewed as Paradox bashing, I have bought more Paradox, games over the years than any other company, and as of now EU III Heir to the Throne is my all time favorite game.

Having semi-ranted, Johan had mentioned the future of HOI III, I very much would like to see an expansion pack that focuses on fixing items that require attention, AI improvements, supply, and a new features be limited to improving the Air-Sea campaign. Which, I'll elaborate upon in a second post, since this post is rather long.

 

[unmerged(170657)]

Radio expansion pack

"HoI3 is quiet game" someone said in another thread

So here is an idea

Imagine yourself sitting as general with your staff behind front by background noice u can acctually tell how things going..

- level of artillery bombardments or air-raids
- amount of talk over telephone or teleprinter noice
- radio noice.. like morse code

One possibility could be to link those to events in history log.
- there is sound now.. but only when AI trades are rejected

And why not make the option to blow up the tiny history log some
and link events by a dot on map.. perhaps by choose the intelligence view option in current map?

Sound can carry informtion as well, give a overview how things going by background noice.. or call for attention while you away from visual

 

[jackda]

With nearly 15,000 provinces, Hearts of Iron III is not only five times larger than before, it’s also the most detailed depiction of World War II ever created.

That's THE point, some people seems to forget it while they keep on complaining about the BIGGEST WW2 simulation game ever made.

Of course such an huge game can't be "perfect" in few monthes, please people stop blaiming the PI developpers for that.

I'm not crawling, but some people there should admit that PI team has PROVED they are still working hard on it.

Indeed, PI devs could have made an "easier" game, regarding their skills they would have been able to make it without any bug (a simple light improvement of HOI2).

They have decided instead TO PUT THEMSELVES DELIBERATLY in the difficulty making a risky huge and complex game.

Why? Because they have the passion of challenge and they have the aim to make a FUCKING GOOD GAME, even if they have to sleep less and sweat trying to satisfy us (or maybe their "egos", i don't really care about that, as long as the result is the same), even several monthes after the release of the game !

Now, they still need us, their customers, to help them improving this game by testing betas, some may complain about that, i personnaly find this is a really SMART attitude!


Even "ONLY" for that, those guys DESERVE my money!

And they deserve i give my time trying to make CONSTRUCTIVE critics.

Also, even if i've made a lot of critics about HOI3, i still think like the first day it has been released in August : this game has the potential to be the BEST WW2 game ever made.