HoI3 1.4 and the future

[Sangeli]

The reason you never lose the war is cause if you are going to lose, you just quit. One time in the 36 scenario I changed some stuff around to beef up the USSR. When I declared war they had 1800 brigade and since I made the frontage 20 per province, I was getting steamrolled.

You might say that because I beefed up the USSR it didn't really lose 36 but the real key to my demise was increasing the frontage. And since frontage for a province is too small as it is, increasing it to an appropriate level would be an easy way to make USSR stronger and thus 36 harder as Germany.

 

[Toryn]

Thanks for coming out and admitting there are problems Johan. I still haven't managed to play a full game of HoI3...but I can see the potential.

Please keep patching it. I would be willing to buy the expansion if you keep adding improvements and really work on the AI in the xpack!

 

[womble]

You don't lose the war because you have 70 years of hindsight, and you're able to focus your research and industry on the one thing you do well, be it infantry or armor. Knowledge of history is the most basic exploit that every HOI player uses. Try producing realistic builds, upgrade your navy, waste IC on pointless suicidal u-boats to destroy a few British convoys every now and then, make dumb strategic decisions like Hitler did, and you'll get a historic outcome.

Actually, you don't lose the war because the AI is an AI trying to deal with a complex game, and you're better at that. As Germany, you could beat the vanilla AI from a '39 start with pure INF on land. Or 'historical builds'. The submarine effort is wasted in-game, because they're badly simulated, but wasn't a waste at all in the real war, except insomuch as in the end it wasn't completely successful; Britain would have had a much easier time in '40 and '41 if there had been no U-boats at all.

 

[POemil]

I think some sort of dynamic resources in provinces might be interesting too. I dont think the metal, rare, oil, energy production remained the same in all provinces for 12 years.
You could do this by event, or you could add a new building like infrastructure or industry, that increases the resource output in a given province.
I think it would be an easy way to add another layer of strategy and long term planning to the game.

 

[unmerged(154327)]

And so, this somehow shows that Paradox is guilty of false advertising via the back of their box?

Yes, pretty close to false advertising to me. Are you telling me the game matches what the back of the box says in your mind???

They are guilty embarrassing themselves by not fixing this game if 1.4 is the final patch (and telling us we have to pay more money in an expansion that will supposedly have the serious issues addressed.) What fun is it to do a full campaign if the Allies will not cooperate? Or gaming with the weird naval, supply, etc.. issues? Or that Russia gets mowed down in short order with a pure infantry army? Or Australia invading Finland, (one game, Japan declared war on Bulgaria in 1.3. Now tell me that is not laughable.)

 

[TRP]

- Surrender mechanics. Tweaks to events are always possible, but the current system for bitter peace and similar are too rigid to a perfect historical result. We need to sit down and redesign the concept entirely.

... Which means, it's never going to happen?

 

[MontanaPrussian]

I think some sort of dynamic resources in provinces might be interesting too. I dont think the metal, rare, oil, energy production remained the same in all provinces for 12 years.
You could do this by event, or you could add a new building like infrastructure or industry, that increases the resource output in a given province.
I think it would be an easy way to add another layer of strategy and long term planning to the game.

Good idea. IIRC,in HoI 1,building Infra in a resource provine did increase production.

 

[unmerged(154327)]

Yes.

Yes what? I am smarter than you? Thank you.


"I await with baited breath...."
I'll hit you with the inside insults like you do me (which is a sign of your inferior mind.) You shoud have said "You await with bad breath...."


"Can you think of a more detailed depiction of World War II? I really can't."


What, you can't "think" or you can't "think of a more detailed depiction of World War II?" It does not surprise me that you can't considering your shallow, fanboi attitude. This is a fatally flawed depiciton of WW2. So actually it can't claim it is the most detailed depiciton of WW2 because it does not work... thus it can't qualify.


"Good description of an issue. Even if this were a house and you went to court over it, based off your eloquence, you'd lose AND have to pay court costs."

Would not lose if I paid for and the builder promised me three floors with a full basement, a three car garage and the "most detailed house" ever built etc.... and I get two floors, a leaky roof they won't fix, a one car garage with no door etc.. I doubt I would lose.



"It's actually not science fiction. It is not nation specific in many respects, but since they did, in fact, research, develop, and produce things like rockets, interceptors, tanks, battleships, etc. that places it more in the realm of historical fact."

Ya and that's why Bulgaria spends time researching aircraft carriers or Japan researching rockets instead of focusing on a naval doctrine or advancing their ground game.


"Oh, but I want you to "go on" as it were. I am so enthused. What the hell did you want? Did you want to actually get to take Hitler's spot in the bunker in World War II and make real-time decisions? It is a video game. It does actually play historically accurate for me about 90% of the time."

I want what was promised on the package I purchased. So does everyone else but you. This "video game" plays 90% historically for you... (as does Super Mario World I bet) So again I am not surprised "colonel." The other 10%, when it is not historically accurate, I bet are the times your mom calls you up from the basement for dinner.


"As far as I can tell, the Soviets getting crushed inside of 5 weeks is not an AI issue as far as the military is concerned. It has more to do with lack of supply and manpower. Now, just so you are aware of this, that was put on the box to denote the new military AI the user has for his own country, not the actual AI controlled countries. And, oh yeah, here is the kicker: it does allow for unprecedented levels of interaction in your game."

Oh really? And you know that for a fact? What, were you part of the hype design team so you know that is exactly what that meant? Does not surprise me. Ya and as far as the unprecedented levels of interaction b/s that is true. I have unprecedented levels of interaction just trying to make work what the hype on the box says.

"Hmmmm.... You'd be incredibly hard pressed to find evidence of me saying I am totally happy with the investment. If you are not happy with the investment, why did you not return it? As for the used car lot part, yeah, I can actually picture you being a used car salesman.

Ya and a goof like you would be first in line to buy a lemon car... and then come back and by another one. You would if you were old enough to drive... LOL

 

[DarkSoul1984]

You got what was promised on the back of the box. That's pretty much it in a nutshell, 'nuff said.

By the way, nothing wrong with "I await with baited breath." But you continue to think that all you want.

 

[unmerged(162341)]

HOI III cant be fixed by patch and I absolutely understand Balors inicial post here when he says he tought there will be no more patches after 1.3.

1.4 has no sence,no patch can change inherent game flaws that are affecting playability.

Addon.

If 1.4 is "buying time" before adddon than its OK.

If 1.4 is only becouse crowd "want fixes",than its not just cause,we should have addon becouse only addon can fix true problems of this game and not patch.

 

[unmerged(154327)]

You got what was promised on the back of the box. That's pretty much it in a nutshell, 'nuff said.

By the way, nothing wrong with "I await with baited breath." But you continue to think that all you want.

Hmmmm maybe you are the only one here who thinks that... most of us don't. Nuff said. And you probably do have bad breath.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Some Off-Topic posts have been deleted.

 

[Lord Strange]

... Which means, it's never going to happen?

Nah. I would guess it my be an expansion area: maybe connected with the CB war declarations/aims of H3T?

 

[LeeDub]

I just hope the expansion won't hold out on new stuff. And that it will be announced soon.

 

[DarkSoul1984]

Hmmmm maybe you are the only one here who thinks that... most of us don't. Nuff said. And you probably do have bad breath.

Obviously I am not. The only one I've seen post it was false advertising was you. Still waiting for you to back up your statements with facts.

 

[wedgeskwalker9]

Nah. I would guess it my be an expansion area: maybe connected with the CB war declarations/aims of H3T?

So we need to pay twenty dollars for basic game concepts to be fixed? Wonderful.

 

[unmerged(154327)]

Obviously I am not. The only one I've seen post it was false advertising was you. Still waiting for you to back up your statements with facts.

OK... I have an attorney friend who has practiced business law for over 20 years... He is also a gamer and is very familiar with Matrix products and other games. I spoke with him last night and explained the issues here and he is not totally unfamiliar with Paradox products (he owns HOI 1 and 2.) I pointed him to this forum and together we went over the printed advertising on the back of the box and I will respond to the this based on what his comments were...

1. "It's time to take commmand and lead your nation through World War II, the largest conflict in world history. Hearts Of Iron III lets you take charge on any front, as any country, and through a variety of scenarios."

(This first paragraph advertises that this game is a simulation of WWII, Which it is NOT and this has been talked about. This is MISLEADING advertising, although probably not intentional. Beyond that, I expected to be able to "lead my nation through World War II" but I can't do that because the game is broken or major components do not work properly thus I can't lead my nation through WWII. The game is faulty and the problem I have is that now it is clear 1.4 is the final patch and some issues are not going to be fixed without further pay by us. Imagine buying a racing sim that promises that it is the most detailed racing sim ever created. You get home and find some of the elements don't work as expected like the ability to tweak your car. Or that half the tracks have serious bugs where you can't finish races. Some patches come out that fix some graphical bugs etc... but you won't get the tracks fixed until you shell out another $30.00 for an expansion pack. That is simply ethically wrong and it does not matter if we are talking about a $40.00 product or a $400,000 house. IT'S WRONG.)

2. Guide your nation to glory from 1936 to 1948: wage war on the battlefields, in the factories, and at the negotiating table, in the most detailed game based on World War II ever made.

(This implies that I can do those things as listed but the game is broken and I can not. The last line says "EVER MADE" which implies that the game is FINISHED AND READY TO PLAY. Which is false advertising as we know it is NOT FINISHED and won't be because the final patch 1.4 will not address game breaking issues.)

3. FEATURES: Play as any nation from 1936 to 1948 - Choose from over 100 countries.
(No problem here other than again the statement implies that I can "PLAY as any nation" which in itself implies that the game works which it does not. I don't call playing as any nation in an enviroment that simply is broken. The classic example of Japan invading Bulgaria, or the US stacking the entire US army in D.C. What's the point?

4. With nearly 15,000 provinces, Hearts of Iron III is not only five times larger than before, it's also the most detailed depiction of World War II ever created.
(Again, more hype that can be taken by some that this game is a sim of WWII. The word "depiction" of course means to "represent by a picture." The map certainly is the most detailed world map of the WWII era (despite some issues.) My friend said they would have been safer stating that it is the "most detailed graphical depiction of the world during the WWII era."

5. Flexible technology system with hundreds of categories - major powers get their own unique attributes.
(This is fine to a point. However the A.I. does not have a clue on what to research. Like Japan focusing research on tanks or paratroops... or laughably Bulgaria focusing on CV's. With the A.I. not focusing on proper research it reduces the game play value in solo mode to almost zero. Thus the game is broken and does not work as advertised.)

6. Interact with thousands of historically accurate military commanders and politicians.
(Really? Name them. Using the term "historically accurate" reinforces that this game is a sim of WWII when the weight of the previous statements are added.)

7. Realistic military command AI allows for unprecedented levels of interaction.
(This implies that the A.I. in the game is "realistic" or "believable" in nature... which is it far from. When the A.I of the Allied nations does not know how to cooperate, or orders a gazillion troops to sit in Washington, or does not know how to plan strategy, or orders nations like Australia to invade Belgium, or Finland... or Japan invading Bulgaria.... etc... etc... That is not realistic command A.I. and is not faithful to what is advertised.)

8. No game is perfect. I have been playing computer games since the late 70's when I sat in front of a TSR 80. I don't think I have seen a bug free program ever. However, the bottom line here is that Paradox Interactive has decided to end development on this product with 1.4 and not fixing of bugs that do not allow the "game" to perform as advertised. This is a wrongful business practice and unethical to require it's customers to spend more money to get what we originally paid for. We have been doing the beta testing for free... and they want more money.

 

[Tormodius]

- Surrender mechanics. Tweaks to events are always possible, but the current system for bitter peace and similar are too rigid to a perfect historical result. We need to sit down and redesign the concept entirely.

Ok you say this will not be changed. Im a little dissapointed in that, because i found it to be a little weak part of the game. For example if you play Japan (now thats a fun one to play!) and lets say Germany invades NL as it usually does, then you also invade NL in the east indies, cause there is the oil you will need as japan. You dont have oil, you need to trade with loyal partner or you have to steal from imperialistic european powers! now i think thats inteded as it was the case in history. Very well

But then if NL do surrender, and becoming a puppet state you lose all you took! Maybe if they do become annexed territory will be shared? Well, its out of your hands anyway because German AI and NL AI will decide whatever happens to east indies!

Japan is kinda done for because it wont be a Japan puppet, but German puppet and you cannot initiate oil trade with it. Germany wont necessarily help Japan either, allthought this is a good design, because in rl they didnt do much cooperation. So weakness in surrender mechanics there is with NL!
Then NL should be modded to never surrender, and problem for Japan is fixed. They just need the oily islands. Well, luckily... its moddable i suppose?

 

[HistoryMan]

I read the news about adding the commands for *adding* Divisions/ armies/ etc via event, using an external OoB file (for which, many thanks!). Was just wondering if there was some mechanism for *deleting* specified units (including divisions/ships/etc) - eg the removal of the Interventionist forces at the end of the Spanish Civil War ?

Tim

 

[Greybriar]

ok... I have an attorney friend who has practiced business law for over 20 years... He is also a gamer and is very familiar with matrix products and other games. I spoke with him last night and explained the issues here and he is not totally unfamiliar with paradox products (he owns hoi 1 and 2.) i pointed him to this forum and together we went over the printed advertising on the back of the box and i will respond to the this based on what his comments were...

1. "it's time to take commmand and lead your nation through world war ii, the largest conflict in world history. Hearts of iron iii lets you take charge on any front, as any country, and through a variety of scenarios."

(this first paragraph advertises that this game is a simulation of wwii, which it is not and this has been talked about. This is misleading advertising, although probably not intentional. Beyond that, i expected to be able to "lead my nation through world war ii" but i can't do that because the game is broken or major components do not work properly thus i can't lead my nation through wwii. The game is faulty and the problem i have is that now it is clear 1.4 is the final patch and some issues are not going to be fixed without further pay by us. Imagine buying a racing sim that promises that it is the most detailed racing sim ever created. You get home and find some of the elements don't work as expected like the ability to tweak your car. Or that half the tracks have serious bugs where you can't finish races. Some patches come out that fix some graphical bugs etc... But you won't get the tracks fixed until you shell out another $30.00 for an expansion pack. That is simply ethically wrong and it does not matter if we are talking about a $40.00 product or a $400,000 house. It's wrong.)

2. Guide your nation to glory from 1936 to 1948: Wage war on the battlefields, in the factories, and at the negotiating table, in the most detailed game based on world war ii ever made.

(this implies that i can do those things as listed but the game is broken and i can not. The last line says "ever made" which implies that the game is finished and ready to play. Which is false advertising as we know it is not finished and won't be because the final patch 1.4 will not address game breaking issues.)

3. Features: Play as any nation from 1936 to 1948 - choose from over 100 countries.
(no problem here other than again the statement implies that i can "play as any nation" which in itself implies that the game works which it does not. I don't call playing as any nation in an enviroment that simply is broken. The classic example of japan invading bulgaria, or the us stacking the entire us army in d.c. What's the point?

4. With nearly 15,000 provinces, hearts of iron iii is not only five times larger than before, it's also the most detailed depiction of world war ii ever created.
(again, more hype that can be taken by some that this game is a sim of wwii. The word "depiction" of course means to "represent by a picture." the map certainly is the most detailed world map of the wwii era (despite some issues.) my friend said they would have been safer stating that it is the "most detailed graphical depiction of the world during the wwii era."

5. Flexible technology system with hundreds of categories - major powers get their own unique attributes.
(this is fine to a point. However the a.i. Does not have a clue on what to research. Like japan focusing research on tanks or paratroops... Or laughably bulgaria focusing on cv's. With the a.i. Not focusing on proper research it reduces the game play value in solo mode to almost zero. Thus the game is broken and does not work as advertised.)

6. Interact with thousands of historically accurate military commanders and politicians.
(really? Name them. Using the term "historically accurate" reinforces that this game is a sim of wwii when the weight of the previous statements are added.)

7. Realistic military command ai allows for unprecedented levels of interaction.
(this implies that the a.i. In the game is "realistic" or "believable" in nature... Which is it far from. When the a.i of the allied nations does not know how to cooperate, or orders a gazillion troops to sit in washington, or does not know how to plan strategy, or orders nations like australia to invade belgium, or finland... Or japan invading bulgaria.... Etc... Etc... That is not realistic command a.i. And is not faithful to what is advertised.)

8. No game is perfect. I have been playing computer games since the late 70's when i sat in front of a tsr 80. I don't think i have seen a bug free program ever. However, the bottom line here is that paradox interactive has decided to end development on this product with 1.4 and not fixing of bugs that do not allow the "game" to perform as advertised. This is a wrongful business practice and unethical to require it's customers to spend more money to get what we originally paid for. We have been doing the beta testing for free... And they want more money.

qft.