HOI1 player learning HOI3

[stratozyck]

I finally am doing it - learning HOI3. I loved HOI1 so much that I even bought an old computer off of ebay so I could run it better. It crashed anytime I saved it on my newer computers and that combined with random occasional crashes meant it could get frustrating.

Anyways, I had HOI3 for years on my computer but everytime I opened it I thought "ugh... I can't find the patience to learn this now." I have a family and career so the great thing about HOI1 is I knew that game and its pitfalls extremely well.

A week ago I decided to play as a minor country and set everything to automate just to see how the game goes (and to disable annoying messages). This weekend I successfully invaded Poland and France as Germany and learned how to use the automation. Unfortunately, I tried to load troops to invade England and somehow the AI took control when I wasn't looking and got the entire fleet sunk.

Kindof stinks how you can't get Gibraltar by getting access through Spain. Oh well.

So yeah, its fun but I am now learning the command structure and how to do it all myself.

Maybe in 5-6 years I will learn HOI4.

 

[marxianTJ]

well firsties - I think you can get Hoi1 on GoG and that version *should* run OK on new systems - if it doesn't you can also turn it in for a no-questions asked refund (as long as you do it quickly).

I don't really trust the AI but sometimes it does interesting things. Your best bet is to ONLY give the AI (with the theater painter) control over the very smallest possible region - say the tiles immediately bordering an enemy - if you only want it to attack that enemy. Although it breaks immersion if you're really into setting up realistic OOBs and HQs putting the AI over theaters exclusively is your best bet - it also keeps things organized (and since your theater commander provides your troops with very little in the way of bonuses you don't have to worry about having a good general there).

A few of the major pitfalls of this game are:

1. The AI handles naval invasions, warfare, patrol, and etc, VERY poorly. It's never a good idea to let the AI handle your navy - it will get it killed or send it to the Bahamas.

2. The AI handles air combat, coverage, and bombing raids especially, rather poorly - but not so poorly that it should never be handed air forces if you don't like micro management.

3. The AI has no way to differentiate threat.

For example with point 3. If you're playing as the USSR and automate the ENTIRE USSR under a single command HQ you will have a fairly large number of divisions spending tons of times in the Far East as opposed to the border with Germany - the same will happen to Germany as the AI will garrison the border with Switzerland or any other neutral countries in Europe if you're not careful - based on the number of divisions present. Since, for example, Switzerland doesn't have much else to do with its IC it will build a lot of INF divisions of various sorts throughout the early game and by 1941+ will have quite a number of them in most cases - which the AI will find very concerning, despite the Swiss posing no threat to the German player unless some sort of nearly impossible freak thing occurs lol.

The deal with not being able to attack through access-granted nations is actual a "rule of war" as it were in the real world. A neutral nation isn't supposed to allow belligerents into their territory, but even if they do, any attack emanating from that ostensibly neutral territory is considered a belligerent act- hence Spain would have to DoW on the allies in order for you to attack Gibraltar. The unfortunate thing is that Gibraltar would then go to Spain and not Germany - forcing your troops and equipment there to be supplied via spain (which it may not have the economy to do).

 

[Raviollius]

I finally am doing it - learning HOI3.

Here, this should help.
http://imgur.com/a/1gu6P

Have fun!

 

[Nick U]

A more irritating problem with Gibraltar (and Istanbul) is that you cannot enter the sea province to mount a seaborne invasion because of the blockaded Straits rule. Thus the only realistic way of taking Gibraltar (as Germany) is to DOW Spain first.

Having said that though, once you have taken France, continuing into and stream rolling over Spain is quite easy and the benefits of holding Spain are enormous. Most notably access to Gibraltar; but some good ports on both the Altantic and Med; continuous access to France's former North African possessions; good levels of Manpower, IC and resources including the strategic resource of Tungsten.

The downside is that you have to defend the Atlantic ports from seaborne invasion from the Allies, but there are only four ports and you can set things up so that they become a death trap to gradually bleed the UK dry of it's Infantry divisions.

 

[Count Blue]

A more irritating problem with Gibraltar (and Istanbul) is that you cannot enter the sea province to mount a seaborne invasion because of the blockaded Straits rule. Thus the only realistic way of taking Gibraltar (as Germany) is to DOW Spain first.

An alternative is to invade gibraltar from the atlantic side with transport ships and marines.
Of course only if you have france secured. I usally start from bordeaux.
I try to do that in all my german games. Sometimes it works and sometimes I get busted by the RN.
Of course. But thats the fun of it Isnt it?

 

[Nick U]

I thought to be able to mount a sea invasion your invasion fleet had to be in a sea province that bordered the land province you were trying to invade. But as you can't enter the Straits of Gibraltar while at war with the owner of Gibraltar, you cannot initiate an invasion.

TBH I've never actually tried that with Gibraltar but hit this problem trying to invade Istanbul from the Black Sea side, my fleet simply refused to enter the adjacent sea province that I needed to initiate the invasion from. I assumed this would be the same at Gibraltar but can't remember whether the Gibraltar coastline is wholly encompassed by the Straits of Gibraltar.

However, it has never been a consideration for me as I simply roll Spain after France and take Gibraltar from the land side.

 

[Count Blue]

Check the map, you will find that sometime multiple seazones border one land zone which is also the case at gibraltar.
If you look at it from the atlantic side you will find a seazone called "coast of cadiz" and from there you should be able to stage the landing with transports and marines.

In the case of Istanbul things are different. Theres no Seazone apart from "the bosporus" bordering Istanbul so youre out of luck for a direct assault.
Worse thing is theres no alternate zone in the black sea bordering turkey at all.
Only from the med you could enter "Sea of marmara" zone and land in the next land zone to Istanbul "Corlu" and attack over land from there.

 

[Kovax]

I believe that Gibraltar was changed in one of the expansions, so it can now be assaulted from the Atlantic side as well. Originally, you could only attack from the Mediterranean side, leaving Germany with no options but to either take Spain or wait up to forever for Italy to do the job.

 

[Count Blue]

Just to clarify.
I play Semper Fi and my example was founded on the map of Semper Fi.

I just checked and in TFH you can attack from both sides med and atlantic.
In this version (TFH) gibraltar borders three instead of two provinces (semper fi).

"gibraltar straight"
"Coast of cadiz" --> atlantic side
and western alboran sea --> med side

 

[Count Blue]

BTW
Talking about the med.
As germany when Italy joins the axis I make it a habit to order some older stuff of my fleet to the med before any hostilities start.
Sometime around end of 38 begining of 39.
Thus I have some forces in the med to bugger the brits with my presence when WW2 breaks out.
No need for any action because just by stationing a fleet there the UK diverts some of its naval forces to the med which would be otherwise part of the "home fleet" somewhere in the channel. "Fleet in beeing" concept. You get the picture.

 

[Nick U]

Just to clarify.
I just checked and in TFH you can attack from both sides med and atlantic.
In this version (TFH) gibraltar borders three instead of two provinces (semper fi).

"gibraltar straight"
"Coast of cadiz" --> atlantic side
and western alboran sea --> med side

My apologies, I eat my words. I do play TFH and just didn't look before posting an assumption while out of game, as I said I never actually tried it.

In the case of Istanbul things are different. Theres no Seazone apart from "the bosporus" bordering Istanbul so youre out of luck for a direct assault.
Worse thing is theres no alternate zone in the black sea bordering turkey at all.

This isn't correct, you can't invade Istanbul, but there are two other sea provinces in the Black Sea that you can enter and invade the Northern coast of Turkey from.

 

[Count Blue]

This isn't correct, you can't invade Istanbul, but there are two other sea provinces in the Black Sea that you can enter and invade the Northern coast of Turkey from.

You are absolutly right I (stupid me) only checked the european side of turkey.
I didnt look at the asian one and from there it is (of course) possible to invade turkey.

 

[Kovax]

BTW
Talking about the med.
As germany when Italy joins the axis I make it a habit to order some older stuff of my fleet to the med before any hostilities start.

That works both ways. As GER, it may pay to station a small group of TPs in an Italian port before you trigger "Danzig of War", so you can assist Italy in North Africa after France falls. That gives you the option to field a real Afrika Korps.

On the flip side, stationing a group of TPs in Wilhelmshaven or occupied France/Netherlands/Belgium allows you to do a Channel crossing at your leisure, even if you don't take Gibraltar directly. March your troops overland to the port, board your ships, wait until the RN is distracted, and suddenly Italy owns England. Of course, that's "gaming the system" shamelessly, but it's fun to do.....once.

 

[Count Blue]

That works both ways. As GER, it may pay to station a small group of TPs in an Italian port before you trigger "Danzig of War", so you can assist Italy in North Africa after France falls. That gives you the option to field a real Afrika Korps.

Which I do also quite often.
When I station forces in the med I use one old heavy cruiser and some light ships plus 2-4 transports.

Makes the whole Africakorps thing pretty realistic and dicy since the forces on my hand are relativly small and therefore must be very careful not to engage the UK navy in the med. Sometime the Italians help me out with some of their battleships and I try to keep aircover from kreta.
If the campaign in Northafrica gets to drawn out like years, supplies are an issue of course.

This makes some real fun and tense game in the "mare nostrum".