Hoi revisited? great!

[pizza de oveja]

I’m really glad Paradox decided to revisit Hoi, a game that despite it’s faults I consider to be the best strategic games I have ever played.

My guess it that Hoi2 will be somewhere between Victoria and Hoi1 which is great, although judging by the screen captures I’ve seen, I think it will have much less depth than Victoria, which is not necessarily bad.

I’m glad that many of the great spoilers that crippled Hoi, most notably the way you had to micromanage orders to your air units, making impossible to arrange an strategic bombing campaign, and the lack of a multiplayer cooperative mode has been addressed.

I just hope they give some tweak beyond just a minor one to the economic system, for me the great blunder of Hoi, that made playing in peace time quite boring leaving you only with the task of building up your forces for a war.
If they address this flaws I think Hoi 2 will easily be one the best games in Pc history. Hoi was really close, just needed some tweaks.

I was hopping for paradox to continue the timeline and make a game about the cold war, but I guess they had other plans. Well, I won’t complaint. Just hope they will someday make a game that expands beyond 1945 to the present.

 

[Zorgoth]

I’m really glad Paradox decided to revisit Hoi, a game that despite it’s faults I consider to be the best strategic games I have ever played.

My guess it that Hoi2 will be somewhere between Victoria and Hoi1 which is great, although judging by the screen captures I’ve seen, I think it will have much less depth than Victoria, which is not necessarily bad.

I’m glad that many of the great spoilers that crippled Hoi, most notably the way you had to micromanage orders to your air units, making impossible to arrange an strategic bombing campaign, and the lack of a multiplayer cooperative mode has been addressed.

I just hope they give some tweak beyond just a minor one to the economic system, for me the great blunder of Hoi, that made playing in peace time quite boring leaving you only with the task of building up your forces for a war.
If they address this flaws I think Hoi 2 will easily be one the best games in Pc history. Hoi was really close, just needed some tweaks.

I was hopping for paradox to continue the timeline and make a game about the cold war, but I guess they had other plans. Well, I won’t complaint. Just hope they will someday make a game that expands beyond 1945 to the present.

Well, I am not sure about the financials, but I am guesing that a WWII game tends to sell better than most other times periods in strategic games. Add to that the fact that HOI1 was well received and you probably have the answer as to why HOI2 is well, HOI2 and not WOK (war over Korea) or something similar

 

[pizza de oveja]

Well, I am not sure about the financials, but I am guesing that a WWII game tends to sell better than most other times periods in strategic games. Add to that the fact that HOI1 was well received and you probably have the answer as to why HOI2 is well, HOI2 and not WOK (war over Korea) or something similar

The cold war would have a lot of potential.
If you find something better than blasting commies with balistic missiles just let me know

 

[javiermcabo]

The cold war would have a lot of potential.
If you find something better than blasting commies with balistic missiles just let me know

I don't think I would enjoy that nukes-flying-around-the-world thing...

What I like from WWII is that it's still very conventional (land+see+air) while being a kind of modern war...

In fact, what I hate the most in HoI are nukes!!

 

[unmerged(33694)]

I know one thing :8)

The cold war would have a lot of potential.
If you find something better than blasting commies with balistic missiles just let me know

I know one thing, by faaaaaaar better... Nuking capitalist pigs , then running them down with tanks :rofl: and finally making them sing communist propaganda songs under the red banner

Isn't this more fun or what

I would like to play HoI - Cold War era A LOT!

 

[javiermcabo]

In 1955 there was already nuclear power enough for destroying the planet a couple of times at least.

Good luck with your game!!!

 

[unmerged(15998)]

I don't think I would enjoy that nukes-flying-around-the-world thing...

What I like from WWII is that it's still very conventional (land+see+air) while being a kind of modern war...

In fact, what I hate the most in HoI are nukes!!

We are two.

(In fact, we are Legion... the A-Bomb ruins everything!)

 

[unmerged(33694)]

In 1955 there was already nuclear power enough for destroying the planet a couple of times at least.

Good luck with your game!!!

So, we'll destroy the Earth in 1955, the game would have no winners (all lose), and I would have to play the game again from the beginning. Until I win without use of nuclear arsenal (or using it only as the weapon of intimidation).

 

[pizza de oveja]

So, we'll destroy the Earth in 1955, the game would have no winners (all lose), and I would have to play the game again from the beginning. Until I win without use of nuclear arsenal (or using it only as the weapon of intimidation).

That’s exactly the thing, although not the way you see it.

Historically neither side used nukes as that would mean they would have to live under shelters the rest of their lives. In a pc game that would be the end of the game I guess, so who would actually trigger that except a recalcitrant bloodlust commie?

So this way, most probably neither side would actually use them (multiplayer games probably excluded), if they manage to model the Ai not be a ravening maniac that is. Nukes would constitute a good deterrent from any one’s imperialistic ambitions. That would lead to an entirely new system of covert op’s rather than full scale war as in Hoi, and that has the potential of being really fun, and also of adding some new aspect that has not being really exploited in many games.

There is also the fact that historically the Americans had the A-bomb many years before the ruskies had it, so that would be reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally cool having that kind of advantage in the game don’t you think? Following the recommendation of Patton and driving the hated ruskies out of Europe in 1945 would be a nice what if scenario. And if they don’t cooperate? Reduce their mayor cities to nuclear wastelands until they do. Is there anything better than that? :rofl:

In Hoi all your efforts are turned into winning the war. That is pretty cool. But in this “cold war Hoi” preventing it, would actually demand also plenty of your effort, giving a new depth to the gaming experience don’t you think?

 

[unmerged(33694)]

That’s exactly the thing, although not the way you see it.

Historically neither side used nukes as that would mean they would have to live under shelters the rest of their lives. In a pc game that would be the end of the game I guess, so who would actually trigger that except a recalcitrant bloodlust commie?

So this way, most probably neither side would actually use them (multiplayer games probably excluded), if they manage to model the Ai not be a ravening maniac that is. Nukes would constitute a good deterrent from any one’s imperialistic ambitions. That would lead to an entirely new system of covert op’s rather than full scale war as in Hoi, and that has the potential of being really fun, and also of adding some new aspect that has not being really exploited in many games.

There is also the fact that historically the Americans had the A-bomb many years before the ruskies had it, so that would be reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally cool having that kind of advantage in the game don’t you think? Following the recommendation of Patton and driving the hated ruskies out of Europe in 1945 would be a nice what if scenario. And if they don’t cooperate? Reduce their mayor cities to nuclear wastelands until they do. Is there anything better than that? :rofl:

In Hoi all your efforts are turned into winning the war. That is pretty cool. But in this “cold war Hoi” preventing it, would actually demand also plenty of your effort, giving a new depth to the gaming experience don’t you think?

1. The modern-days HoI could not be so much based in history like WW2 one. Simply because there are no major conflicts and we would get a diplomacy game instead of strategic one. Me don't want that!

2. As you heve mentioned it, retreat from the nuclear race would mean a very possible defeat on battlegrounds because of lack of "retaliation" capabilities. So, players would have to invest in nuke research if they want to affect the 'world order'.

3. Tactical nukes

This is probably OT, but I just wanted to share my ideas with the always ready to listen HoI community

 

[unmerged(14249)]

The Cold War is not so interesting because there are just two players. The 21 century looks more interesting because there are more players:

USA
China
EU
CIS (Russia)
Islam
India

Andrew

 

[unmerged(15998)]

That’s exactly the thing, although not the way you see it.

Historically neither side used nukes as that would mean they would have to live under shelters the rest of their lives. In a pc game that would be the end of the game I guess, so who would actually trigger that except a recalcitrant bloodlust commie?

At the time of writting this, the United States have been the only nation in the world that has used nuclear bombs in a war (and two times).

There is also the fact that historically the Americans had the A-bomb many years before the ruskies had it, so that would be reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally cool having that kind of advantage in the game don’t you think? Following the recommendation of Patton and driving the hated ruskies out of Europe in 1945 would be a nice what if scenario. And if they don’t cooperate? Reduce their mayor cities to nuclear wastelands until they do. Is there anything better than that? :rofl:

Military speaking, in 1945 in the event of hostilities against the soviets, all that the allies could have done is to retreat in more or less order to the English Channel (those are the conclusions of Churchill's report about the issue). Using the nuclear bomb in Europe was not politically acceptable to the US.

Thanks God, people find that there are better things to get fun than play a game in wich you can murder millions with nuclear blasts. And, thaks God, normal people don't get exited thinking in the possibility of doing so...

A lot of people thinks also that in a 1945 Soviet vs Allied scenario, it would be better to kick the Allies out of Europe. But that's something that is left for each one's preferences, beliefs and anthipaties...

 

[pizza de oveja]

Well the problem is the way I see it the fact that diplomacy and politics have never, at least to my knowledge, being simulated adequately in any pc game. They found out how to simplify considerably the complexity of tactical and strategic warfare in all those games we have enjoyed but as for diplomacy and politics, I guess it’s either more complicated to simulate appropriately or has little potential to attract gamers. I suppose it is much less complicated to make an AI for combat (although in Hoi they have yet to resolve issues like surrounding and enemy unit and see it advancing deeper into enemy territory) than for peace time, where scripted behaviour is much more clearly identified. There is a clear example of this in Victoria, when suddenly every country in Europe declares war upon Prussia for no reason whatsoever, even it’s allies, or the fact that playing with Germany in Hoi you are always DOWed by USSR on early 1943.

The problem is simulating a way for the AI to react to your actions, a problem that aggravates at peace time periods, were the behaviour of the AI is submitted to an script. This is why the diplomacy and politics in much games is always so lame, and why Hoi is boring until war erupts, and also because of the lack of depth of the diplomatic, politic and economic aspects of governing a nation. Just take a look at the usual options; non aggression pact, alliance, declare war and that’s about it. That oversimplifying so much, that diplomacy has no interest whatsoever in any game. As for politics? Well, in Victoria they did try to add some depth to it and I understand some of it will be implemented in Hoi 2 so we shall see.

What ultimately happened in WWII was the product of the things that happened before it. Economic, diplomatic and Politic decisions determined it’s beginning and it’s outcome at least as much as actual warfare if not more. I understand that many people only demand non stop combat in the games they play, but as far as I’m concern at least, I think Hoi was intended to be more than that.

So my point is: Cold war Hoi would be boring? Definitely yes with the Hoi core, as whenever there is no war you get bored due to the fact that economy, politics and diplomacy are just cosmetics in the game. But with Victoria’s core and a few more tweaks, this time period would have a terrific potential.

P.d
Fact1- The dropping of the atom bombs over Japan saved more lives than they took, BOTH Japanese and American. It cruel, it’s hard, it’s politically incorrect but it’s the plain truth. Conventional bombing caused many times more destruction and death than those bombs.(Tokio, Dresde, Hamburg…..) were almost levelled.
Fact2- The additional advantage of using the A-weapons over Japan was to send a clear message to Stalin, don’t forget, the world’s greatest killer of all time surpassing amply Hitler, that he did understood all right due to the facts that; we in Europe don’t speak Russian today, and two; ruthless dictators only understand force, they just use diplomacy to gain advantage and time (remember Munich, Irak…).
Fact3- The USSR never used nukes because that would have triggered a retaliatory strike by the other side. If that wouldn’t have been case, (read: if they have had them and the US not), things would have been different, you can count on that.
Fact4- The Spanish Republic was advocated to failure, and the Country was on the verge of disaster and chaos. The Government had lost control of the syndicates, and the political parties, and Anarchy reigned on the streets. There were political killings every day, pillage… I understand that is appealing for teenagers and drunk workers but I would hardly call that freedom. So don't glorify it for what it wasn't.

 

[Darkrenown]

I understand that is appealing for teenagers

Yes, all teenagers are idiots. Thanks

 

[unmerged(30686)]

We are two.

(In fact, we are Legion... the A-Bomb ruins everything!)

Yes me as well. Nuclear weapons ruin it and I wish they werent in HOI and hope theyre not in HOI2 - though I suspect some hope :wacko: