HoI IV the least favorite child of Mother Paradox?

[Dalwin]

I personally would love some fluff DLC for HOI 4. I'm jealous of all the unit packs EU4 and CK2 have.

I was always worried that some well meaning friend or family member would buy me one of those as a gift. I wouldn't have had the heart to tell them that the first thing I do in any version of HOI is to set it to counters only. This habit goes back to my first use of cardboard counters for war gaming back in 1973. A strategic WWII game with anything but counters will never feel right to me.

 

[NilsFabian]

I personally would love some fluff DLC for HOI 4. I'm jealous of all the unit packs EU4 and CK2 have.

I agree. It would be nice to see some of the Black shapes in the techtree

@NFZed did you "steal" that thread title from my thread from almost a year ago?

Apparently. When I typed my title yours hadn't been suggested.

Not sure how that is the consensus. I pretty much see only you suggesting this.

Well not only me as it seems:

What does HOI4 have that CK2, EU4, and even Stellaris don't have? Can anyone guess it? … Perhaps it is something as simple simple as coding and getting things right for HOI4 is much harder than previous games? Seems incongruous to me though.

But I still stand with my Impression. I do love all the current strategy games of PDX, some more, some less. But for some reasons HoI is slower than the rest. Maybe an Forum Admin sees it and gives his two Cents. But unless it is a technical Problem that the HoI Code is the moste complex Code of all the games I doubt it.

Oh well… more time for Megacorp then.

 

[Telenil]

I've seen threads "does Paradox care less about this game than the others?" on EU4 and Stellaris forums. The EU4 thread said "look at the extent of the HoI4 reworks! Why won't they make something similar here?"
So I don't think HoI4 is somehow on the short end of resource allocation. I think it's slower because the updates are more ambitious and require more code change. Man the Guns adds fuel and completely rebuilds the naval combat system.

 

[Dalwin]

I agree. It would be nice to see some of the Black shapes in the techtree


Apparently. When I typed my title yours hadn't been suggested.


Well not only me as it seems:


But I still stand with my Impression. I do love all the current strategy games of PDX, some more, some less. But for some reasons HoI is slower than the rest. Maybe an Forum Admin sees it and gives his two Cents. But unless it is a technical Problem that the HoI Code is the moste complex Code of all the games I doubt it.

Oh well… more time for Megacorp then.

Actually in many ways HOI is the most complex code out of all of those. It is also different from the rest. HOI, even though it has sandbox elements, is the only one on the list that is primarily a war game. The others are much more economic/social simulators in which wars occasionally happen. Furthermore the combat systems in HOI are much more complex than the rest of the Paradox lineup.

I think this is most of why the HOI AI struggles as much as it does. It is simply asked to do more complex things than the AI in those other games. Even with all the struggles that the regional governors had in Stellaris, those mostly amounted to a moderate drop in efficiency and were not in danger of ruining the game except for those players who obsessed over every point having to be spent perfectly.

 

[NilsFabian]

Well it might be, but it seems odd that HoI is so slow.
It could also be part of a different Stream Policy that nurtures my Impression.

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

What does HOI4 have that CK2, EU4, and even Stellaris don't have? Can anyone guess it?

Tanks!

 

[Alspego]

Actually in many ways HOI is the most complex code out of all of those. It is also different from the rest. HOI, even though it has sandbox elements, is the only one on the list that is primarily a war game. The others are much more economic/social simulators in which wars occasionally happen. Furthermore the combat systems in HOI are much more complex than the rest of the Paradox lineup.

I think this is most of why the HOI AI struggles as much as it does. It is simply asked to do more complex things than the AI in those other games. Even with all the struggles that the regional governors had in Stellaris, those mostly amounted to a moderate drop in efficiency and were not in danger of ruining the game except for those players who obsessed over every point having to be spent perfectly.

I agree with your statement. To expand on it:
The mechanics of HOI4 are much more interconnected compared to games like EU4, CK2, Stellaris. For example: You can add for example a new mechanic for a specific nation or religion or new national ideas in EU4, you can add a new set of events for specific character traits in CK2, you can add new anomalies in Stellaris which are independent from other aspects of the game. Nobody really cares, if nation x is a bit stronger now, if character trait y is better know of if ethics z is less viable.
This is much more complicated in HOI4, especially since many people expect a certain historical development. For example: If you introduce a national focus tree for Finnland which makes this nation stronger, might have a direct impact on the Sowjet Union (e.g. if the Sowjet AI cannot win the Winter War) and therefor impact on the Germany and therefor on the Allies.

 

[kaguravitro]

I've seen threads "does Paradox care less about this game than the others?" on EU4 and Stellaris forums. The EU4 thread said "look at the extent of the HoI4 reworks! Why won't they make something similar here?"
So I don't think HoI4 is somehow on the short end of resource allocation. I think it's slower because the updates are more ambitious and require more code change. Man the Guns adds fuel and completely rebuilds the naval combat system.

The game is not complete, that's the reason of deeps changes, also fur for examI didn't like eu4 feeding changes and I still play eu3, so I think is a hole thing the unhappy comments of eu players, also the system of dlc, hoi iv are dlc but the majority but all of them as they were expansion (I prefer to be expansion).
Every one want to have the pride of fleet, only different really deep neutering this games from the point of developers is that hoi was considerably more linked to modders and support they and say suggestions like others game of the house never did. We have a feedback incredible

 

[zukodark]

Then let's give you insight to the Harsh Reality that the Game, and its Development Team, are a Failure.

View attachment 419885

Of course Stellaris has a different player curve than HoI4! The latter has hardcore history fans willing to play a history-like scenario over and over and over again, while it also has alternate history scenarios meaning the other kind of history fans can play different scenarios. Then it has mods like Kaiserreich giving even more scenarios. Historical context and starting inequality grants a lot of different types of experiences to have in the game. It also has no other modern alternative WW2 grand strategy games.

Stellaris on the other hand must carve their audience out from fans of many different backgrounds, with competition from other 4X space games. It also is partly a 4X game, which always have been less about longevity.

But I think the greatest difference is in how people handle hype. In Stellaris we are all waiting for a total rework of the economy, ressource and planetary system, something relevant for every single empire you make. Every single Stellaris fan I know can't play the game before it comes out. On the other hand Man the Guns doesn't seem to make that much of a difference unless you're playing with a naval-focus or one of the affected nations, and even then a lot of people are still able to play. I mean I don't even care that much about naval warfare, so I don't feel like I'm missing much when I'm playing.

 

[krios41]

But I think the greatest difference is in how people handle hype. In Stellaris we are all waiting for a total rework of the economy, ressource and planetary system, something relevant for every single empire you make. Every single Stellaris fan I know can't play the game before it comes out. On the other hand Man the Guns doesn't seem to make that much of a difference unless you're playing with a naval-focus or one of the affected nations, and even then a lot of people are still able to play. I mean I don't even care that much about naval warfare, so I don't feel like I'm missing much when I'm playing.

this so much.
I love both HOI4 and Stellaris to bits. But everytime a new (content) update comes around for stellaris its hard to get into a new game because of all the new shiny things that are comming up that are most often relevant regardles of what i play ass. Meanwhile in HOI4 the updates don't drasticaly change the game(until now with MtG), sure i want to pay with the new toys that got showcased, but its rather easy to just get sucked into a new game and play a country i didn't play before, or try and hunt for an achievemnt before the next update makes it harder to get or so.

 

[Mega_Rosalina]

How is it that Man the gun, while being announced during PDXCon is still waiting for a release date, while Stellaris is already releasing the next Expansion / Patch which had been only a Freak Idea of Wiz during PDXCon.

Has HoI lower priority for ressources?

Lay huge odds that Megacorp has been in development for a long time now; hence why its coming out in December.

 

[EntropyAvatar]

Then let's give you insight to the Harsh Reality that the Game, and its Development Team, are a Failure.

Speaking for myself, I haven't been able to play Stellaris once I saw the new economic system in the summer. It feels like it is going to address a major problem in the game and I feel like throwing a party to celebrate the demise of the tile system.

Anyway, if there are others in the same boat, it might be depressing the Stellaris Steam numbers. But rest assured, I am very interested!

 

[eduardens]

Golden Century!

 

[Tarlock]

I dont think its because of resource allocation, it might just be that HoI4 has a more complicated code than Stellaris.

 

[sortulv]

Stellaris has a team that is burning with ideas and willing and able to change everything. This gives them a drive that helps produce new and very different stuff. The extreme falloff of players helps here, as it indicates a higher acceptance of big changes.

HOI on the other hand has a lot of complicated functions, many in the area of almost works. Ideas of how to improve things (without removing features that were actually part of DLC). Say for example that the team decided that the battle planner was more trouble than it was worth - the blitz function was paid - so it can't be cut... As a result, design work takes more time...

 

[Turboflex]

i wouldn't call it just simplifying the rescource sytem.
but in a way it is because in a purely numerical POV the AI has less decisions it can take(no more having to decide wich one of the 25 pops go on wich one of the 25 tiles). But overall the new systems looks to have more depth then the old and boring tile system.

Oh yeah totally agreed, wasn't dissing it because it does look interesting and could easily be a lot more fun. But certainly one of the upshots of the redesign is to simplify it for the AI to handle decisions better.

 

[krios41]

Oh yeah totally agreed, wasn't dissing it because it does look interesting and could easily be a lot more fun. But certainly one of the upshots of the redesign is to simplify it for the AI to handle decisions better.

don't sweat it fam, i wasn't thinking you were dissing it, i was merely elaborating a bit on it. no need to worry ^-^

 

[bitmode]

It's a shame that I have to insert myself here, but what might seem "useless" to some can be an "omg, this option is so immersive" to others.
Let's not be dismissive of the choices and opinions of others, no matter how stupid it might seem to you.

I don't see how ensuring a comparison is apples to apples dismisses anyone's play style? The discussion revolved around how much work went into the DLCs respectively and cosmetic ones are arguably easier to make and would hence skew the comparison.

 

[NilsFabian]

Lay huge odds that Megacorp has been in development for a long time now; hence why its coming out in December.

Are you sure? They had Distant Stars Ready for PDXCon. It seems odd or confirming my suspicion that they work on two DLC'S the same time.

 

[RELee]

I don't see how ensuring a comparison is apples to apples dismisses anyone's play style? The discussion revolved around how much work went into the DLCs respectively and cosmetic ones are arguably easier to make and would hence skew the comparison.

And I don't see how my complaint about his calling a DLC "useless" when others obviously enjoyed the DLC on release immensely could be misunderstood, so I guess we're even.