HoI IV the least favorite child of Mother Paradox?

[krios41]

Right now they are moving to simplify the resource system

i wouldn't call it just simplifying the rescource sytem.
but in a way it is because in a purely numerical POV the AI has less decisions it can take(no more having to decide wich one of the 25 pops go on wich one of the 25 tiles). But overall the new systems looks to have more depth then the old and boring tile system.

 

[mursolini]

Historically, HOI was PDXs most ambitious, and less well managed title. HOI3 was terrible at release. CK2 was playable. EU4 was playable and enjoyable even in beta(not without issues obviously), while HOI4 became playable somewhere close to 1.3 or even 1.4. Personally, I blame frontline AI, that PDX still can`t get right, despite working for like a dacade at the same province scale at this point.

 

[NilsFabian]

They do not change FTL - they killed it and turned game into the historical France simulator - build a wall in Space. And railroads.
Even removed code from the game so moders can help. Warp and WH- they gone.

Maybe PDX and railroads fan happy about that but a lot of us believe that we was betrayed by them, just like Chech and Poland in HOI. And not some - we are many.

Well that's your opinion and your Impression.
Mine is that the majority has embraced or even accepted the FTL Change. End even if not, whats the Point the deed is done. You won't get the other FTL's back. Btw the new Wormhole mechanic ir more likely what I expect of Wormholes and has a nice ne strategic angle.
Overall Stellaris is much better than when they released it.
But we are straying from the Topic.

So it seems to me that the Consensus is that Stellaris is more favored by PDX than Hoi?

 

[hkrommel]

I don't think the steam statistics cited earlier are indicative of how good a game is. I think Stellaris is a better game than HOI4 (just my opinion) but I play HOI4 more because it's a game I can play in one sitting, it fits better into my schedule. Stellaris takes lots of time.

 

[NilsFabian]

The HOI4 announcement was made a lot earlier than normal because of the timing of PDXcon. They couldn't go the entire con and say nothing about HOI4 so the alternative was an early reveal.

Well that’s exactly what I meant. Stellaris and HoI were released nearly simultaneously.
But somehow Stellaris got more development and DLCs than HoI.
LeGuin was never mentionedurig PDXCon but yet here it is. Probably earlier than Man the Guns.
That’s an acceptable indicator that Stellaris gets more resources than HoI

 

[Edungeon]

Maybe DLCs for completely different games are just not the same and take different amounts of time?

 

[Jellico]

Maybe the Stellaris team is just more efficient? One thing i've noticed about some of the HOI4 devs is how bored they seem during the streams. The Stellaris guys seem way more engaged when they're showing off new features.

 

[Bouchart]

Chances are Paradox put more effort into Stellaris because it's a new series, whereas HoI is an established and long running one.

Personally I found Stellaris to be a bit disappointing and HoI4 to be somewhat frustrating and shallow. Still put a lot of time into both but a lot of that was achievement hunting.

 

[Sinbuster]

I'm quite surprised by the Steam numbers. I always thought Stellaris was an order of magnitude bigger than HOI because of the 4X crowd.

Just my experience but I'm actually playing HOI4 for the first time in a long time, and quite looking forward to the new update coming to Stellaris. I am saddened by the fact it took me this long to like either game to any degree but I suppose I should be used to it by now. I like the fact Paradox is willing to change core aspects of their games (FTL and Pops for Stellaris, Fuel and ship design for HOI). It gives me hope they might take an axe to the current battle planner which is a hot mess imho. Playing as Germany recently, I was amazed how boring battles are when I use the planner - and how muddled my screen becomes - versus micromanaging. There is so much pleasure to be found in the nitty-gritty of battle that HOI would do well to revisit it.

 

[Ironside121]

HoI4 has the advantage of being set in history too- that needs to be taken into account.

Immersion is dependent on person, and many PDX fans do love their history. There is no history in Stellaris- only fiction. Some people just don't enjoy that. It's why I can't get into Stellaris personally, I prefer to be immersed in a historical setting. Plus Stellaris just felt like Civ to me, and I've played that to death in the past 10 years.

Whether or not a game is better or not, is completely up to an individuals opinion. I prefer HoI despite actually hating 50% of the game, mostly because of it's setting.

As for it being the least favorite child well... I'd say it is. It's definitely in the worst state of all their running titles currently. You can say Victoria 2 all you want, but the only reason they haven't released a third game is because they haven't found anyone with the passion for that era to lead the team. There was an interview where that was stated, I watched it a long time ago- I doubt it's in the works now since they're working on Imperator, still supporting EU4 and CK2, fixing HoI4 and working on Stellaris. That's a lot to do.

 

[Mr Thursday]

Hearts of Iron 4 has quality hats galore. Stellaris has no hats. In the last patches Stellaris added bad hairstyles, while HOI4 added a FEZ!

And lets be fair, CK2 has crowns and other headgear, while there are crazy hats in EU4. So Stellaris is both hatless and unloved ...

 

[NaRen13AnnexYourself]

Historically, HOI was PDXs most ambitious, and less well managed title. HOI3 was terrible at release. CK2 was playable. EU4 was playable and enjoyable even in beta(not without issues obviously), while HOI4 became playable somewhere close to 1.3 or even 1.4. Personally, I blame frontline AI, that PDX still can`t get right, despite working for like a dacade at the same province scale at this point.

I believe the devs introduced the battle planner system to make AI suck less (by making human players less efficient) but their attempt failed drastically.

 

[Fulmen]

HoI IV the least favorite child of Mother Paradox?

@NFZed did you "steal" that thread title from my thread from almost a year ago?

 

[Dalwin]

Well that's your opinion and your Impression.
Mine is that the majority has embraced or even accepted the FTL Change. End even if not, whats the Point the deed is done. You won't get the other FTL's back. Btw the new Wormhole mechanic ir more likely what I expect of Wormholes and has a nice ne strategic angle.
Overall Stellaris is much better than when they released it.
But we are straying from the Topic.

So it seems to me that the Consensus is that Stellaris is more favored by PDX than Hoi?

Not sure how that is the consensus. I pretty much see only you suggesting this.

 

[The Requimen]

What does HOI4 have that CK2, EU4, and even Stellaris don't have? Can anyone guess it?



Since HOI4 released, it has had 3 DLC released for it, with a combined price of $45. Time since base game was released, 897 days. Average time between release so far? 299 days and counting. If they released MTG 14/12/2018, that would be 4 DLC, $65, 921 days, 230 days average between DLC.

Stellaris has had 5 (6*) DLC released for it, with a combined price of $70 ($90*). Days since release of base game, 941 (925*) Average time between release so far? 185 (157*) days and counting. *Everything in parenthesis is adjusted for Megacorp.

EU4, 14 DLC, $215, 1925 days, average time between release is 138 days.

CK2, 15 DLC, $183, 2338 days, average time between release is 156 days.

I counted all DLC listed as such on the wiki. No flavor, music packs. No pre-order bonus, skins, etc.
Disclaimer: I won't pretend to be a worthy judge of the actual value of all of this DLC, and the free patches that came with them.


Why? Your guess is as good as mine as to why HOI4 post release development seems so slow. It could be, as alluded to in the title, it simply isn't priority, which means less developers. It could be because they don't see much profit in DLC for HOI. Maybe they are so stretched between supporting three games, developing one plus whatever else they are up to that HOI4 simply drew the short stick. If you want a greedy corporate answer, maybe it is because they already got our money for DLC.

Perhaps it is something as simple simple as coding and getting things right for HOI4 is much harder than previous games? Seems incongruous to me though.

 

[Dalwin]

I believe the devs introduced the battle planner system to make AI suck less (by making human players less efficient) but their attempt failed drastically.

No they introduced it to make the game easier to play so that micromanaging units would be less necessary. If you accept that as their goal then it is obviously a complete failure. HOI4 is still my favorite in the series but the entire battle planner could be pitched out the window and I would never miss it. This will not happen however, since they invested so much time in developing it and I am sure someone's reputation is probably connected to that feature.

It does not help that their most visible QA plays the game like it is the WWII version of StarCraft. The battle planner is fine for a speed 5 RTS game, but worse that useless for anyone wanting a more serious strategy game.

 

[Dalwin]

What does HOI4 have that CK2, EU4, and even Stellaris don't have? Can anyone guess it?



Since HOI4 released, it has had 3 DLC released for it, with a combined price of $45. Time since base game was released, 897 days. Average time between release so far? 299 days and counting. If they released MTG 14/12/2018, that would be 4 DLC, $65, 921 days, 230 days average between DLC.

Stellaris has had 5 (6*) DLC released for it, with a combined price of $70 ($90*). Days since release of base game, 941 (925*) Average time between release so far? 185 (157*) days and counting. *Everything in parenthesis is adjusted for Megacorp.

EU4, 14 DLC, $215, 1925 days, average time between release is 138 days.

CK2, 15 DLC, $183, 2338 days, average time between release is 156 days.

I counted all DLC listed as such on the wiki. No flavor, music packs. No pre-order bonus, skins, etc.
Disclaimer: I won't pretend to be a worthy judge of the actual value of all of this DLC, and the free patches that came with them.


Why? Your guess is as good as mine as to why HOI4 post release development seems so slow. It could be, as alluded to in the title, it simply isn't priority, which means less developers. It could be because they don't see much profit in DLC for HOI. Maybe they are so stretched between supporting three games, developing one plus whatever else they are up to that HOI4 simply drew the short stick. If you want a greedy corporate answer, maybe it is because they already got our money for DLC.

Perhaps it is something as simple simple as coding and getting things right for HOI4 is much harder than previous games? Seems incongruous to me though.

Do those figures include the "useless" Stellaris DLC which were graphical only with no new game mechanics? Adding plants as a playable race did zero for the game since the race you choose has zero impact on the game. It is all about the traits you choose for the species and not their shape or skin color etc.

Past versions of HOI had a slew of such fluff DLC that did nothing more than add sprites for certain nations etc. HOI4 has taken a different approach and is not marketing that way by selling graphical only DLC.

 

[RELee]

It's a shame that I have to insert myself here, but what might seem "useless" to some can be an "omg, this option is so immersive" to others.

I only play humans as that is, for some character weakness I suspect, the only species I can associate and enjoy. Others obviously do not have the weakness and glory in their exploits.

Let's not be dismissive of the choices and opinions of others, no matter how stupid it might seem to you.

I would appreciate it.

 

[The Requimen]

Do those figures include the "useless" Stellaris DLC which were graphical only with no new game mechanics? Adding plants as a playable race did zero for the game since the race you choose has zero impact on the game. It is all about the traits you choose for the species and not their shape or skin color etc.

Past versions of HOI had a slew of such fluff DLC that did nothing more than add sprites for certain nations etc. HOI4 has taken a different approach and is not marketing that way by selling graphical only DLC.

Leviathans, Utopia, Synthetic Dawn, Apocalypse, Distant Stars, and the unreleased MegaCorp.

No flavor, music, or cosmetic packs. No E-books, pre-order packs, upgrade packs, anniversary packs, dynasty shields, portraits, unit packs, customization packs, or free dlc.

I know, which is, ironically, somewhat unfortunate considering the not insubstantial amount of missing 2d art. I'm sure at least some people might welcome some more unique 3d models for tanks, planes, ships, etc. Though I understand Paradox has received some rather vocal opposition to such things in past games.

 

[coffeelingfine]

I personally would love some fluff DLC for HOI 4. I'm jealous of all the unit packs EU4 and CK2 have.