HOI IV 1.1 BETA: Weird Diplomacy (Is it Intended?)

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Dudas Drakaan

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(Single player game, non-historic AI.) I ran into the strange situation as communist Greece, after having taken over Germany alongside the allies, that I wanted to take Iraq for its oil. Now Iraq was not a country that had joined the war on the side of Germany, even though it had fascist leanings. So I decided to make a claim on them to press the issue. The Netherlands, who I had a non-aggression pact with, immediately guaranteed them - despite the supposed changes to the AI not going "guarantee crazy." To clarify I was currently allied with the Netherlands against the axis.

I never declared war on someone who had been guaranteed by someone I had a non-aggression pact and was allied to before and I suspected nothing would come of it but I wasn't sure. Nevertheless, I continued fabricating on Iraq and when I declared war on them, Netherlands called most of the allies against me... well most of them. Canada, Australia, and South Africa stayed true to their Non-aggression Pacts with me. But here is the weird thing: Iraq declared on them, then peaced them, then declared war on me in less time than an in-game second. Not only that but Iraq was now in the Axis (not the Allies), yet was on the side of the allies in their wars. I then found myself somehow at peace with all the Axis and at war with the Allies. There was no peace conference and me and Russia still had all the Axis territory that we had taken in the war - and that territory was still considered occupied and was creating resistance. Furthermore, Allied troops were not jettisoned out of my territory - they just captured whatever territory they were in or suddenly started having a fight with my troops or Soviet troops right on the spot.

Is this intentional? This seems like really weird behavior on multiple fronts. It said in the changes that you were not supposed to be able to declare war on someone you are war allies with? Not only that but you can get around non-aggression pacts with guarantees? That sounds fishy. Especially with the fact that doing that means you don't need to remove your troops from their country. If I didn't have garrisons in all my Greek cities out of paranoia for sea attacks I would have been insta-wiped.

Imagine what people could do with that exploit in multiplayer if they were intentionally guaranteeing to attack their allies. That's madness!


[See something a bit off with this Iraq's alliance and his allies in the war?]
20160624230742_1.jpg
 
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Dudas Drakaan

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Update:

The weirdness continues. After I got Iran and Iraq to capitulate (who were the two Axis members that were fighting with the allies) I had a peace conference without the allies surrendering. I was able to annex the oil that I wanted and the Soviet Union puppeted Iraq and Iran, or what I left of them. Now Iraq is at war against the allies in what is still called the "Greek-Iraq War" even though Iraq is now on my side.

At least this is giving me a good laugh.

20160625014909_1.jpg
 

Dudas Drakaan

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Update #2: Ok, after this I'm definitely going to stick something in the bug thread... Turkey, who was one of the Axis members I was previously at war with and retook Constantinople from, offered me military access. I was like 'LOL. OK, sure, why not?" When I accepted, he regained all the territory I took from him in the war...

20160625020327_1.jpg


Lesson: Don't accept military access from anyone in the 1.1 Beta you have ever been at war with.
 
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Dudas Drakaan

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They did warn in the patchnotes that military access would do that
They said allies in the same war cannot declare war on each other. They said AI will not change the design of all troops to garrison (instead the AI changes all its designs to garrison instead). They said nations would not guarantee against lesser nations if their was a bigger, more threatening nation in the world. They said they would also not go "guarantee crazy" and guarantee while already at war. They said a lot of things. Oh and the actual thing they said about military access was,

"AI nations will no longer spam you with requests for military access at game start and nations who would rather occupy someone than liberate wont ask for military access."

How does the situation above have anything to do with the AI spamming MA requests? All that has to do is AI behavior, not MA ceding territory back.
 
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Foxador

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Oh and the actual thing they said about military access was,

"AI nations will no longer spam you with requests for military access at game start and nations who would rather occupy someone than liberate wont ask for military access."

How does the situation above have anything to do with the AI spamming MA requests? All that has to do is AI behavior, not MA ceding territory back.

Actually they said something else and this is what was mentioned:

- you now need to give someone military access to walk through your land. there is no auto access for having same enemy (so no soviets in allied territory)
- being in faction already gives mil access, so your faction members will have access

The sneakier changes required because of this is how it affects occupation rules. Take this example:
1. Poland gets attacked by germany and joins Allies
2. Germany rolls over Poland
3. Soviets end up in war with germany and push them back across poland
4. Now, 2 things can happen. If poland gives military access to soviets its provinces will get liberated. If it doesnt the provinces are occupied, despite them being in Allies faction which is fighting agaisnt germany together with soviets.
This means that as a hostile-style faction like axis and commintern you need to consider military access as a lightweight friendship and something you might want to avoid so that you can sneekily occupy stuff instead of liberate.
 

Shebaloso

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Actually they said something else and this is what was mentioned:

- you now need to give someone military access to walk through your land. there is no auto access for having same enemy (so no soviets in allied territory)
- being in faction already gives mil access, so your faction members will have access

The sneakier changes required because of this is how it affects occupation rules. Take this example:
1. Poland gets attacked by germany and joins Allies
2. Germany rolls over Poland
3. Soviets end up in war with germany and push them back across poland
4. Now, 2 things can happen. If poland gives military access to soviets its provinces will get liberated. If it doesnt the provinces are occupied, despite them being in Allies faction which is fighting agaisnt germany together with soviets.
This means that as a hostile-style faction like axis and commintern you need to consider military access as a lightweight friendship and something you might want to avoid so that you can sneekily occupy stuff instead of liberate.

This is so ridiculous...why not occupy by default and then hand the territory to whoever you want?
 
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