HoI 4 - [1.6.2] & [6f7d] No admiral trait xp progress when fleetsize is above 45 ships

[Orkmann]

Description of issue
[1.6.2] & [6f7d] No admiral trait xp progress when fleetsize is above 45 ships

Game Version
[1.6.2] & [6f7d]

Enabled DLC
All of the above

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Description
Admirals gains no type of trait xp from battles, when he commands more than 45 ships. I have observed the same both for submarines and surface ships.

This issue is only about the generation of trait xp. General xp gain /leveling up is OK.

I have documented some test results in the following forum as well:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...are-broken-image-heavy.1164694/#post-25324501

Steps to Reproduce
1. Set up two fleets, one with 44 or less ships, the other with 45 or more ships.
2. Send them to battle
3. Observe the admirals trait xp progress

I am also attaching my saved game, where I have tested the same with two sub fleets, one with 50, the other with 44 subs. Save is form the beginning of the war.

Upload Attachment

 

[Dan1109]

Fleet or Task Force? Please be specific on that, because its important. I am assuming however you mean Task Force.

 

[Dan1109]

Actually, looking through your link where you show your tests, I see that its fleet, not TF. Wow, what fleet has less than 45 ships? The AI certainly doesn't play that way. Certainly a bug for minor countries, but Majors with major fleets are S.O.L. Great find!!

p.s. This does look like its more about a football rivalry, than naval XP issue....lolololol

 

[Orkmann]

Indeed, this is observed on fleet level, the number of task forces not seemed to be relevant.

Not sure what what you meant by the football reference though

 

[Dan1109]

Brazil vs Argentina of course

 

[Orkmann]

Of course! Im only involved in the operations of the Azzurri though, so the mentioned rivalry is more in the shop of @Razgriz13

 

[Razgriz13]

Nice report btw. Also, I'm Brazilian, so no surprises here
Also, I'm not exactly sure about the value that you posted. My fleet with 10 BBs and 40 DDs in the test got xp and skill XP
And note that I tested both a fleet with a single task force with 10 BBs and 40 DDs vs another fleet with 10 task forces with 1 BB and 4 DDs each.

 

[Orkmann]

Also, I'm not exactly sure about the value that you posted. My fleet with 10 BBs and 40 DDs in the test got xp and skill XP
And note that I tested both a fleet with a single task force with 10 BBs and 40 DDs vs another fleet with 10 task forces with 1 BB and 4 DDs each.

Xp is gained continously during a battle, so what matters is the actual fleet size, not the starting. My interpretation is that your admiral got xp only after he lost some ships so the fleet size went under 45. But of course this is just y theory.

So the question is whether you are positive that the admiral gained xp from the very first hour of the battle or you just checked afterwards?

 

[Razgriz13]

Xp is gained continously during a battle, so what matters is the actual fleet size, not the starting. My interpretation is that your admiral got xp only after he lost some ships so the fleet size went under 45. But of course this is just y theory.

So the question is whether you are positive that the admiral gained xp from the very first hour of the battle or you just checked afterwards?

Good question, I would need to test it again.

 

[Razgriz13]

With 41 ships I got the first point of ironside


Same goes for fleet protector and blockade runner, so looks like you are right about that

 

[Baron_von_Beer]

It seems to be true. I modified Ironside so that it works as the tooltip suggests (either fleet has capital ships) and tested with small fleets to confirm this. Eg Asiatic fleet commander got Ironside experience after engaging several CL/DD fleets, as he had 2 CAs in his.

However in current game I've now had 3 major battles with Admiral Halsey, and he still has no Air Controller, Ironside etc xp despite having 4 carriers, 2 BBs, 4 CAs, enemy fleet having capital ships etc. Went up 4 or 5 levels, but zero trait XP gained.

 

[bitmode]

Admiral traits share a lot of code with generals. Apparently the penalty for generals having more than 24 divisions carries over to admirals. This means that trait experience gain is reduced for any admiral commaning more than 24 ships and at 48 ships this penalty reaches 100%. I don't know yet why the XP gain already stops at 46 ships.

 

[Orkmann]

@bitmode That's a good clarification, thanks!

In regards to the 46 vs 48 question, can the game manage fractions for the xp? Eg. if with high enough penalty the admiral gains only 0.1 xp per hour, in-game we wont notice it, as it will be probly shown as zero.

 

[Dan1109]

Admiral traits share a lot of code with generals. Apparently the penalty for generals having more than 24 divisions carries over to admirals. This means that trait experience gain is reduced for any admiral commaning more than 24 ships and at 48 ships this penalty reaches 100%. I don't know yet why the XP gain already stops at 46 ships.

Impressive. And what would be more impressed would be write an opcode patch to eliminate that penalty. If AI gets XP for troops when it’s over 24, I don’t mind, it needs the help when it’s getting a malus for its leader bonus in combat.

 

[bitmode]

@bitmode That's a good clarification, thanks!

In regards to the 46 vs 48 question, can the game manage fractions for the xp? Eg. if with high enough penalty the admiral gains only 0.1 xp per hour, in-game we wont notice it, as it will be probly shown as zero.

I've traced some cases where the admiral gained only 0.001 trait XP per combat hour. That's the smallest representable amount. But it's tricky to maintain a constant combat situation for hundreds of hours to see whether they eventually gain a full XP point in-game from that. So 45 ships might be the last point where the XP gain is detectable across a reasonable span of time.

 

[Orkmann]

Thanks again! I believe we have now a good understanding on this bug/feature. Só át least if we want to train an admiral, we know how to that with a bit of micro.

 

[Baron_von_Beer]

For what it's worth I tried removing the general stacking limit in defines to see if it impacted admirals. Still didn't see any trait xp.

*I set the general limit to 300 and did see some trait XP, though very miniscule. Given these were some massive fleet battles it could be the defines change still had no impact and there is tiny residual amount even being over 48 ships, else the rate of gain needs to be increased about 100 times what it is. 7CV 5BB, 8 CA lots of screens vs the balance of the Japanese fleet (5 CVs, ~8 BBs, ~12 CAs and about 60 screens) and Halsey got 5 ironside XP, 4 fleet protector XP, and 5 air controller. 1% or less of what's needed to get any of those traits, from the massive sort of battle that is likely to only happen 1 or 2 times in the entire war. Level skyrocketed though lol.

 

[bitmode]

For what it's worth I tried removing the general stacking limit in defines to see if it impacted admirals. Still didn't see any trait xp.

*I set the general limit to 300 and did see some trait XP, though very miniscule. Given these were some massive fleet battles it could be the defines change still had no impact and there is tiny residual amount even being over 48 ships, else the rate of gain needs to be increased about 100 times what it is. 7CV 5BB, 8 CA lots of screens vs the balance of the Japanese fleet (5 CVs, ~8 BBs, ~12 CAs and about 60 screens) and Halsey got 5 ironside XP, 4 fleet protector XP, and 5 air controller. 1% or less of what's needed to get any of those traits, from the massive sort of battle that is likely to only happen 1 or 2 times in the entire war. Level skyrocketed though lol.

That's odd, here's my test setup:

• start as ENG 1939
• disable ai, nocb
• merge all TFs in Portsmouth
• manually move them into Eastern North Sea
• tag GER
• set Erich Raeder as Admiral of surface fleet, merge all surface TFs, never repair, always engage, strike force in Eastern North Sea
• add one of the submarine TFs to the fleet as patrol

Raeder gets about 5% in multiple traits after a day of combat (that's usually when he drops below 48 ships), if I either

• remove CORPS_COMMANDER_DIVISIONS_CAP
  
• set it to 0
• set it to 300

 

[Baron_von_Beer]

I just did another test. I set corps and fieldmarshal caps to 300 just in case. Only ships engaging were under Admiral Halsey, AI disabled, in each test I would feed the entirety of the Japanese fleet through and monitor XP gains. Did it in chunks to minimize US losses. When running 3 carrier group strike forces (10 CVs total) he got less trait XP then when running a single 24 ship force of 2 CV 2 BB 20 screens.

Even with only the single task force in his fleet to maximize XP and presumably bypass any size penalty, after sinking the entire Japanese navy he only had ~20xp each in Fleet Protector, Ironside and Blockade Runner, and 43xp in Air Controller, ~5% progress. If that doesn't earn the traits, I'd think it's safe to say the rate is "too low" lol.

I'll rerun later to verify if I was getting XP at all with the default cap on.

 

[NQN]

Brazilian Admiral Augusto Rademaker have Skill 3, but damage, defense, speeed and positioning all only 1.