HoI 4 - [1.6.1][55d5]Many typos and even Engrish in Japanese division name list and errors in OOB

[SchwarzKatze]

Description of issue
[1.6.1][55d5]Many typos and even Engrish in Japanese division name list and errors in OOB

Game Version
1.6.1

Enabled DLC
All of the above

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Description
I've posted this two times last March and October, but I suppose no devs read them, so I'll post again.

Since I reckon that the callsign/nicknames of the IJA divisions in game are transcribed from kanji without kana annotating their pronunciation, there are quite a few innocent mistakes because kanji can be read multiple ways. However, I managed to find historical documents with their correct pronunciation supplied from Japan's historical archive, which I posted here. Most of them are just kun'yomi vs. on'yomi, which can't really be deduced from the kanji anyway, but there are a few actual mistakes as well:

Note: Call signs were only implemented in 1940, so a handful of formations disbanded before 1940 never had a call sign

Name list
The document in spoiler contains the historical pronunciation of the call signs in Japanese

Spoiler: Original IJA document from JACAR archive

Daegu & Gwangju Reserve Unit, 1-3 Guards Division, 1-17D

18-41D

42-61D

62-71D

72-112D

114-144D

145-225D

229-355D, 1-4 AA Division, 1-4 Tank Division

Infantry
1: Gyoku > Tama
3: Ko > Sachi
6: Akira > Akari
13: Kyo > Kagami
14: Sho > Teru
15: Sai > Matsuri
17: Getsu > Tsuki
21: Tou > Utsu
23: Kyoku > Asahi
27: Goku > Kiwame
29: Ikazuchi > Rai
35: Azuma > Higashi
49: Ookami > Rou
50: Yomogi > Hou
56: Ryu > Tatsu
58: Kou > Hiroshi
70: (none) > Yari
72: Ten > Den (Missing voicing mark)
84: To > Totsu (Missing Syllable)
102: Hatsu > Batsu
116: Ran > Arashi
117: Gu > Hiromu (広 can't even be pronounced "gu")
118: Kei > Megumi
140-147: The first syllable is "Go" not "Ko" (Missing voicing mark), and see sopiler below for more problems
144: Kosaka > Gohan
147: Koho > Gohoku (Missing Syllable)
152: Gozawa > Gotaku
154: Goji > Goro
167: (none) : There wes never a 167th Division in the IJA, so it should be removed
214: Hitachi > Tokiwa (Wrong kanji. It's 常盤, not 常陸)
222: Towada > Hakkou (Mt. Hakkouda is indeed located next to Lake Towada, but this is some next-level mistake)
224: Ako > Akaho* (See spoiler below)
231: Taikoku > Ookuni
316: Yamajiro > Yamashiro (Extraneous voicing mark)
All three-hundred series divisions were activated on the same day, but these divisions are missing from the game's name list:
321: Iso
322: Bantai
344: Kenzan
351: Akagi
354: Bukou
355: Nachi

The 101st and 106th were disbanded early hence never had a call sign, so that's not a problem.

Spoiler: 140-160

The ones starting with Go- in the 140-160 series (= all except 148, 149, and 158) were immobile garrisons activated on 1945.2.28 that were literally named "Protect + (the place where they were deployed)", so I'd advise moving them to the garrison list, or even removed because it's not possible to keep them in the historical location.

Additionally, 158th Division was "still in the training queue" when the war ended. Its activation order took effect on August 10th, one day after the Soviet invasion of Manchuria, and no evidence exists that the order was carried out at all, as no commander was appointed. If we go by the standard used in the German name list, it should be removed. Though personally I'd like to see it stay.

Spoiler: Ako or Akaho

While the table has the katakana of "Akaho" instead of "Akō" for 224th Division, I can't deduce which one is correct because this table was written with the old orthography, where it can actually be read either way. It doesn't help that there are two places with the same kanji and the same old spelling, but one is now Akō while the other one is still pronounced Akaho. The Japanese military is also known for not complying with the pronunciation of namesakes, like how the heavy cruiser Suzuya was named after the river Susuya, so there's really no way to tell which one is correct unless we find someone who was linked to this unit.

Guards Divisions
Currently not in the name list
Konoe Dai-1 Shidan: Guu
Konoe Dai-2 Shidan: Miya
Konoe Dai-3 Shidan: Han

The name list file uses #168 for the Guards Division (Konoe Shidan), but the OOB file uses #601 instead. This causes the division's name to default to "601 Jidoushoka Shidan" (601st Motorized Division) in game.

The call sign of the one in the game was actually "Miya". When the division was split into 2 in 1943, the 2nd one kept the original designation, resulted in this oddity.

Independent Mixed Brigades

Konoe Dokuritsu Konsei Ryodan (#202 in the game) was a component of the original Konoe Shidan that was detached from its parent division to fight in China after the soldiers complained about how other divisions got to win glory and fame in China while all they could do was guarding the palace gate, which was later expanded to Konoe Dai-1 Shidan (while the parent division became Konoe Dai-2 Shidan), so the circumstance was a bit unusual and it might not be appropriate for it to appear in the name list.

There was never a "2 Konoe Dokuritsu Konsei Ryodan" (#203) yet there it is in the name list.

Cavalry
The cavalry divisions in Inner Mongolia are now "#10x Kihei Shidan" instead of "# Mouko Kiheishidan" because there are no corresponding entries in the name list for #101-#108 used in the OOB file.

Miscellaneous
"Motorized" is Jidoushaka not Jidoushoka
”Airborne Division” should be Kutei Shidan not Kuteiheishidan. "Kutei" itself means airborne/airdrop, while "hei" means soldier. Same for Mountaineers. "Sangakuryohei" is the literal translation of "Gebirgsjäger", but both the American "Mountain Division" and German "Gebirgsdivision" are "Sangaku Shidan" in Japanese.

OOB
Independent Mixed Brigades
The game currently treats independent mixed brigades as the same thing with a 5 inf 1 LArm template but that's not how it was.

The pre-war Independent Mixed Brigades in 1936 (1st and 11th) were experimental units. The 1st was an experimental armored unit with 2 light tank battalions supported by a motorized infantry regiment. The 11th was an experimental firepower unit with 2 infantry regiments and 2 artillery regiments. Neither experiments were considered successful. The 11th was reconfigured into a normal division (the 26th) when war broke out with China while the 1st had the luck of running into a Pak 37 position near Taiyuan which didn't help its reputation and was disbanded in 1938.

The Independent Mixed Brigades during the war (in the 1939 start) were essentially mini-divisions created to allow for flexible use of forces and for garrisoning conquered territory. Even though they shared the same name, their natures are completely different.

Furthurmore, The Mixed Brigades of Karafuto and Taiwan didn't have "Independent" in their names, and Karafuto Konsei Ryodan was only formed in 1939, so they shouldn't be there in 1936.

Miscellaneous
In 1939, there are a lot of "Bodagado" around. I didn't know what that means until I realized that it's Engrish for "Border Guard". Engrish. Seriously? Even Google Translation gives a much better translation (Kokkyōkeibitai, Or Kokkyou Keibitai)

Also in 1939, there are 3 "Sensha Gurupu" in Manchuria. If they aren't fictional, then I supposed they are double translations of "Senshadan", "Tank Group" in English. There were indeed #1-#3 Senshadan in Manchuria when Pacific War began, but only #1, formed on 1938.8.12, should be there. #2 was formed on 1940.3.1 and #3 was formed on 1941.9.10.

Steps to Reproduce
Look at Japanese division name list and OOB files

Upload Attachment

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Additional problems with the new navy navy list:

JAP_CL_HISTORICAL:
It's "Kitakami", not "Kitikami"
The entire line 82 is a dupe of the CA list.
"Ooita" violates the naming convention used in the game: All other long O's are rendered as a single O.

JAP_CA_HISTORICAL:
The Mogami class shouldn't be here as they were built as CL and are already in the CL list.
Fallback name: "Jun'yokan" is just "cruiser". Heavy cruiser is "Jujun'yokan"

JAP_MINELAYERS_HISTORICAL:
"Natsushima" "Sokuten" appeared twice.
For the fallback name: "Minelayer" in Japanese is "Fusetsukan" (敷設艦)

JAP_BB_HISTORICAL:
I don't think the Kongo class should be here. They were built as BC and had BC names.
The game doesn't seem to check if a name has been used by a vessel of another class, so having "Kaga" here could result in name collision.

JAP_BC_HISTORICAL:
Same reason above for "Akagi", "Atago", and "Takao"
And I'm sure that the content designer had noticed: historical Japanese BC and CA drew their names from the same pool, and the list of fictional names are the same for both. I suggest merging them into one name list. It wouldn't cause any problems since Japan didn't construct any additional BC.

JAP_CV_HISTORICAL:
There's nothing wrong with "Kokubokan" per se, but it encompasses both CV and CVL. "Seikikubo" is the word for CV without CVL (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/正規空母)
The list is a mess: It's a mixture of conversions, early IJN naming scheme, and late IJN naming scheme.
"Kaga", "Akagi", and "Shinano" are conversions from other classes.
"Soryu" "Hiryu" "Shokaku" "Zuikaku" "Junyo" "Hiyo" "Taiho" "Unryu" belong to the early theme "flying creatures", of which "Junyo" "Hiyo" are conversions from civilian vessels: All IJN carriers bearing the name "-yo" (hawk) were conversions from non-combat vessels.
"Amagi" "Katsuragi" "Kasagi" "Aso" "Ikoma" "Kurama" belong to the late theme "mountains" (same as BC and CA), and 4 out of 6 also appear in the said lists.

JAP_CVL_HISTORICAL：
"Karui Kokubokan" is broken Japanese. The standard Japanese term is "Keikubo" (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/軽空母)
"Chitose" and "Chiyoda" were converted seaplane carriers that retained their old names. They violate the naming convention of flying creatures.
"Ibuki" was a converted CA hull and should not be here.

JAP_PREFECTURES：
This is a mix of historical provinces, Hokkaido provinces that existed for just 2 years (Oshima and line 300), and modern prefectures (line 301)

JAP_RIVER_MOUNTAIN:
This is essentially an incomplete mix of the CL and CA name lists that contains only 3 unique names ("Ayase" "Minase" "Otonase")

 

[Lolofik]

A lot of work put into these. Hope the devs notice this.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Thanks for reading

 

[Misaka_Complex]

Man this thread is so underrated when it has so much flavor bugs resulting from translation errors in the game. The OP really did his research.

One thing though, isn't "Takao" a heavy cruiser and not a battlecruiser? I remember this from Kancolle but Wikipedia backs it up. The thread mentions the names of BCs and CAs overlapping but it would be awkward to to able to name BCs with CA names, that's like naming a German battle cruiser Prinz Eugen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Takao_(1930)

 

[SchwarzKatze]

One thing though, isn't "Takao" a heavy cruiser and not a battlecruiser? I remember this from Kancolle but Wikipedia backs it up. The thread mentions the names of BCs and CAs overlapping but it would be awkward to to able to name BCs with CA names, that's like naming a German battle cruiser Prinz Eugen.

The names Takao and Atago derived from the cancelled Amagi class battlecruiser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amagi-class_battlecruiser

Japanese heavy cruisers, battlecruisers, and late carriers are all named after mountains. The name Amagi was also later reused for a carrier.

 

[Misaka_Complex]

The names Takao and Atago derived from the cancelled Amagi class battlecruiser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amagi-class_battlecruiser

Japanese heavy cruisers, battlecruisers, and late carriers are all named after mountains. The name Amagi was also later reused for a carrier.

Ok, then on a related note I'll report the bug that variants of Japanese planes are called "xxx - Kai A" by default, this isn't accurate because for example for the case of the carrier fighter the Mitsubishi A6M Zero-sen, the variants of the planes were called “A6M2 Zero Sen“ as opposed to "A6M Zero Sen Kai A" as its named right now in the game. Therefore, the correct way to name succeeding variants of planes for Japan would be "A6M2, A6M3, A6M4" and so on not "xxx-Kai A, B, C." We also see the same pattern used for naval bombers such as the B6N with its variants being named B6N2, B6N3, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_A6M_Zero#Variants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_B6N#Variants

 

[Jmland]

Ok, then on a related note I'll report the bug that variants of Japanese planes are called "xxx - Kai A" by default, this isn't accurate because for example for the case of the carrier fighter the Mitsubishi A6M Zero-sen, the variants of the planes were called “A6M2 Zero Sen“ as opposed to "A6M Zero Sen Kai A" as its named right now in the game. Therefore, the correct way to name succeeding variants of planes for Japan would be "A6M2, A6M3, A6M4" and so on not "xxx-Kai A, B, C." We also see the same pattern used for naval bombers such as the B6N with its variants being named B6N2, B6N3, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_A6M_Zero#Variants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_B6N#Variants

True, but the variant naming conventions have to follow a pattern that is in the file (can't remember name at the moment). All the variants default names follow the same pattern "Equipment-"version"-#" with appropriate substitutions for equipment and country/language. One could have individual patterns created for each country, but it would be a lot of work, and would bloat the code somewhat.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Sad to see that nothing was done for 1.7.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Sad to see that nothing was done for 1.7.

Apologies, we just had other issues to fix that were higher priority. I'll see what we can do in regards to our Japanese localization after the summer break.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Apologies, we just had other issues to fix that were higher priority. I'll see what we can do in regards to our Japanese localization after the summer break.

Thanks.