I keep reading that HOI3 will be more user friendly and will be easier for initiates to the series and those who were turned off by the difficulty of the previous versions. This really really worries me. I've seen companies dumb down sequels in the past and almost never with good results. I really hope that PI does not alienate their core to please a more casual gaming demograpic.
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From what I can tell Paradox will allow options to let the AI take over some stuff, making it only dumber if you want it to be.
Also could be better arrangement of menus and stuff to be visually less intimidating, yet at the same time not have to go through 7 layers to get to the one item you wanted to change (yea i know there wasn't 7-layer menus that much in any pdox games). Finally groupings of the items related near each other and figuring out what players use more together in the same area. Also extra shortcuts with mouse buttons and keys so you don't always have to navigate through menus.
In addition like EU3:NA/IN there may be options you can turn on/off that can make things easier for new players without a simple give me a generally better stats than the AI.
In addition like EU3:NA/IN there may be options you can turn on/off that can make things easier for new players without a simple give me a generally better stats than the AI.
I hope not
Paradox needs to realize (and I think they do) that their base is super hardcore strategy fans. Dumbing down the game will not gain them any fans and will just piss us off immensely. If anything the game needs to be made more complicated and complex with streamlined interface and optional AI assist management.
Paradox needs to realize (and I think they do) that their base is super hardcore strategy fans. Dumbing down the game will not gain them any fans and will just piss us off immensely. If anything the game needs to be made more complicated and complex with streamlined interface and optional AI assist management.
While that is probably true we aren't Paradox's target audience for the game. A huge majority of the people who post in this HOI3 forum(myself included) will pre-order the game sight unseen. A very large number of the people in this Paradox Plaza community will end up buying the game within a year or so. All of that will not earn Paradox any money, they need the masses to at least buy the game, if not actually enjoy it, to get the sales numbers they want/need. the best option would be to allow the player the OPTION to automate a lot, but let the hard core player micro manage to his/her heart's content.Lazy_Boy said:
See... Paradox said the same about EU III and Rome. And back then, people also went beserk, fearing a dumbed down game. I'd hardly call EU III and Rome dumbed down. Just more streamlined and easier to access.
I'm glad that Paradox doesn't pander to the sort of gamer elitism many posters here seem to subscribe to.
HoI2 already had an extended feature list, I don't think that this should be expanded much. I'd rather Paradox focused on UI and more focused game mechanics instead.
HoI2 already had an extended feature list, I don't think that this should be expanded much. I'd rather Paradox focused on UI and more focused game mechanics instead.
Lazy_Boy said:
agreee
the young players today are used to easy and flashy games with superb graphics and 3d stuff with an stupid ai engine so they think they are super smart players. this type of mainstream players that are in majority now pretty much cant handle hoi2 strategy. mayby a few of them will but i am pretty sure its better keep the thousends costumers they have now that have payd for the previus games and patches and updates that love the complexity of their games.
Even if they buy it they will quickly put it away and our community will stand here!
If the changes will be on worse - we will stay with HoI2 and wait for users patches or eventually HoI4 if there ever be one.
I play this games from the very begining and hope they will think of us as their best clients - such game will never make great money so they should concentrate on us.
IMO its better to have old good friends than loose all.
I have started plaing in early 90s. I love simple grafics - V4Victory style. Even if all will change - its we who will play such games and not the ones that like easy killing like move ure tanks and see how they (or enemies) blow. Nothing more than graphix. Only visual effects. Such games as paradox creates - even if were as much simple as possible are too much for them.
If the changes will be on worse - we will stay with HoI2 and wait for users patches or eventually HoI4 if there ever be one.
I play this games from the very begining and hope they will think of us as their best clients - such game will never make great money so they should concentrate on us.
IMO its better to have old good friends than loose all.
I have started plaing in early 90s. I love simple grafics - V4Victory style. Even if all will change - its we who will play such games and not the ones that like easy killing like move ure tanks and see how they (or enemies) blow. Nothing more than graphix. Only visual effects. Such games as paradox creates - even if were as much simple as possible are too much for them.
a game can have complex mechanism (most of them hidden to player) and still be accessible. This is all about ergonomy, I guess. Also, AI can assist beginner in some complex task and experienced player would choose to do it themselves. I see no contradiction.
Making a computergame is just cheap. No matter how many copies they sell, they'll still make money of it. Especially if every memeber of this forum will buy it. And how much expensive research and stuff do they have to do to make HoI 3? Probably not much. The game was quite deep, but if you brainstorm for an hour or so, you can think of great ideas to put in this game and they qould be fairly do-able aswell.
Still, there's a good chance the game will be ridiculously bad and then there will be a new patch or something like that coming out after 1 or 2 months since it's release. And you'll probably have to pay for that patch aswell. If they do that, I'll bomb the Paradox headquarters!
Still, there's a good chance the game will be ridiculously bad and then there will be a new patch or something like that coming out after 1 or 2 months since it's release. And you'll probably have to pay for that patch aswell. If they do that, I'll bomb the Paradox headquarters!
well, the programmers have to get paid, advertising has to be done, the computers have to be bought, then upraded. Also, I can only imagine how long it takes them to work on in-depth games. Making games isn't as expensive as some other things, but you have to sell units to pay the bills.
jurslla said:
I really apologize but that's how all you guys sound. They definitely shouldn't focus on graphics over gameplay and I don't think they will. It isn't a betrayal of the thousands of players they have now if they want to keep them and also find a million new ones. Pretty graphics are just a way to make sure that the game has a flashy enough cover to make people give it a chance and find the meat inside.
Hollandia said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Really! I'm not a programmer but even I can tell you that the idea is less than 1% of the difficulty in making a game. It requires thousands of man hours by more talented people than me to turn those ideas into something that the computer can actually execute. Why do you think so many mods never get finished? Because it's work. Except in this case they're not just changing province Id's or rewording events, they're rebuilding half the engine from scratch.
I'm not saying it's all about money, but Paradox already made a very complex, deep analytical game. It's called Victoria and everyone on the forum bought it. No one else did. The end. No sequel has been announced.
Finally it come down to the "where are you going to go?"question. Hearts of Iron is unique in both it's scale and subject matter, so though you may say you'll never play it if it doesn't have "x feature," you're stuck. It's like the democrats who voted for Nader in 2000 and then realized they'd made a huge mistake.
Sorry if I sound mean, but you're not somehow more valuable customers just because you played the original Panzer General. You're money is just as good as someone else's.
Just because a game's interface is easy to use and streamlined, doesn't mean it's "designed for the masses" at all. It just means its easier. From what I gather, HOI 3 won't be "dumbed down" at all. Since they've reverted to HOI 1 style tech research, I'd say quite the opposite.
Number one game forum rule: any time a sequel, expansion, or spinoff is mentioned, large groups of players will immediately throw a fit about how the new game is going to be 'dumbed down' for 'twelve-year-old console kiddies' who are far, far less intelligent and sophisticated than the enlightened, genius ubermenschen who are the true fans of [game.]
Are you kidding me? EU3 only become worthy of the series' name after IN and Rome is a piece of junk.Vulture said:
Sbr is totally right though. I bought those two and I'll buy HoI3, because I'm just a sucker for p'dox games.