HoI 101

[Deaghaidh]

Help me out here folks. I get the distinct impression I need to take a class on playing HoI to be able to play HoI The learning curve is, IMHO, even steeper than EU2's (which was rather harsh) that being said, I'm determined to get a grip on it.

A number of things tend to overwhelm me:
1. Industry and resources: It seems to me that my IC is fluctuating very wildly. I know why: in most cases, its lack of rubber. I'm trading on the world market, and I'll hit stretches where everything is cool, and then suddenly my IC bombs out. I'm still offering trade, its just like there's no rubber to buy. At least now I understand the Japanese a bit better I'm having to adjust my sliders on a day to day basis in peacetime. I get the distinct impression that i'm not handling the rubber supply (and to a less severe extent oil) as well as I should. Any suggestions?

2. Research: How many research projects do you keep up at one time? Is it better to focus on one area (i.e., tanks, aircraft, navy) or to plod along more evenly in many? What, in your opinion, are must haves early on?

3. Coordinating/ Organizing forces: How severe is the penalty for going over a leader's maximum organized units? Is it better to concentrate into a few uberarmies/fleets or to have a line of smaller units?

4. Organization values: These always seem way to low, I'm doing well in most cases to be at 40% even in wartime. I know researching doctrines up the values, but they take so long and cost so much. Is there another way to up my Org % faster (assuming full supply, which I normally have)?

5. Navies: These frighten and confuse me, especially as England How do you guys use them? What are you're techniques for hunting down u-boats, and using your own submarines? And how can I equip my carriers with planes? Also, how do I get more escorts on the convoy management screen, since it doesn't seem to consider any deployed ships as being available for that duty (even when they're destroyers just chilling in port with nothing to do)?

There's a lot more to my bewilderment than that, but it'll do for a start.

 

[unmerged(11934)]

1 - Resources is one thing that make the IC's fluctuate... Also if you are making any improvement on a province ( Industrial, AA etc... ) it takes half of the IC's produced by that province for a fixed period of time ( Ex: 1 year for industrial improvement)

2 - If you play a country with a large amount of IC's you can pursue several research thread at once... maybe try to fix yourself some goals and aim for thoses. If you play a minor country, it is impossible to think to research a lot. Concentrate on a few depending on your need ( navy, land or air ) and stick to them... you'll need those IC's for production soon enough....

3 - Try to group them at the maximum number of division that the leader can handle. As the leader earns experience you'll be able to make bigger groups. The penalty, which is small with few division over the leader's ability, increase as you add more and more division over the leader's limit. This is a thread on army organisation:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60509

4 - I always have low value as well. Since I've been playing a minor country ( to get use to the game and tackle the steep learning curve ), Canada, I can't spend to much on doctrine research... Maybe someone else could chip in an idea...

5 - Again someone else will have to help since, aside transports, I haven't build much of a Navy yet ...

Hope this will help...

BTW: Canada DO matter...

 

[Maximilian I]

"A number of things tend to overwhelm me:
1. Industry and resources: It seems to me that my IC is fluctuating very wildly. I know why: in most cases, its lack of rubber. I'm trading on the world market, and I'll hit stretches where everything is cool, and then suddenly my IC bombs out. I'm still offering trade, its just like there's no rubber to buy. At least now I understand the Japanese a bit better I'm having to adjust my sliders on a day to day basis in peacetime. I get the distinct impression that i'm not handling the rubber supply (and to a less severe extent oil) as well as I should. Any suggestions?"

If you don`t have enough rubber, oil will be converted. However, your troops have the priority on your oil resources, so this may be case. sometimes there may also be fluctuations in the wordl market, so try to build up a reserve.

"2. Research: How many research projects do you keep up at one time? Is it better to focus on one area (i.e., tanks, aircraft, navy) or to plod along more evenly in many? What, in your opinion, are must haves early on?"

Depends on your country I would say. In peactime ~2/3 of my IC go to research (sometimes 100%), 1/3 to build up. At war it`s ~1:1 for me...

"3. Coordinating/ Organizing forces: How severe is the penalty for going over a leader's maximum organized units? Is it better to concentrate into a few uberarmies/fleets or to have a line of smaller units?"

-10% for every extra unit over the limit. I have a strong line of inf, with armored groups in reserve.


"4. Organization values: These always seem way to low, I'm doing well in most cases to be at 40% even in wartime. I know researching doctrines up the values, but they take so long and cost so much. Is there another way to up my Org % faster (assuming full supply, which I normally have)?"

nope. doctrines are needed.

"5. Navies: These frighten and confuse me, especially as England How do you guys use them? What are you're techniques for hunting down u-boats, and using your own submarines? And how can I equip my carriers with planes? Also, how do I get more escorts on the convoy management screen, since it doesn't seem to consider any deployed ships as being available for that duty (even when they're destroyers just chilling in port with nothing to do)?"

planes on carriers: simply send a air unit to a sea zone where a carrier is. note: 1 carrier has the capacity for one air unit.

to add escorts click on a destroyer divs symbol -> the unit menu has a button "send on convoy duty". works for transports as well.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Thanks for the quick response time guys:

Extro: I never thought of it, but Canada would be a good intro country, you get involved but not right in the thick of it where one mistake can kill you (i.e. France) and a respectable amount of IC. I might try it.

But do not question the wisdom of Kitty Foreman!

Max: I assume you mean the IC percentages after consumer goods and supply? Or do you ignore those?

And the destroyer-> escort thing is a lifesaver. Must have missed that in the manual.

One more question: Expeditionary forces. I've tried sending them, but the AI doesn't 'take' them (i.e., they stay in the province they were before) do I have to transport them to the region myself before turning them over to an ally? (I've only tried a few times as England to support France)

 

[Maximilian I]

Originally posted by Deaghaidh
Max: I assume you mean the IC percentages after consumer goods and supply? Or do you ignore those?

One more question: Expeditionary forces. I've tried sending them, but the AI doesn't 'take' them (i.e., they stay in the province they were before) do I have to transport them to the region myself before turning them over to an ally? (I've only tried a few times as England to support France)

I do not ignore CG and supplies

exp. forces: better transport them to where they are needed.

 

[dsteve3]

Playing Germany, pre-war, I tend to watch my total rubber number to determine how much IC I can use. I lock my consumer goods at ~+10% or less, lock supplies at ~+25%, no builds and the rest research, but I don't assign anything until the first day passes.

I then choose a few techs until half the assigned research quota is filled, then I wait until the day cycles. The IC's available drop at this point, as does the available rubber. I then increase research step by step, until I hit about 15 available rubber. If I go over that limit, and my available rubber drops more, I find I'm prone to fluctuations, usuallly occuring in the winter. After this has settled, I will transfer some IC from research to military builds, once ICs become available from completed research.

I don't use the trade function because its not working correctly. If you want, trade 3:1 coal/steel for rubber/oil. Say 30 steel for 10 rubber, that will beat all other offers in the trade que (thus it is an exploit).

After conquering the Netherlands, I usually have all the resources I need, so I can then move to full production.

 

[Darkrenown]

Originally posted by Deaghaidh


One more question: Expeditionary forces. I've tried sending them, but the AI doesn't 'take' them (i.e., they stay in the province they were before) do I have to transport them to the region myself before turning them over to an ally? (I've only tried a few times as England to support France)

The AI doesn't know what to do with ex forces at the moment, you can control them yourself though and beat up the nasty Germans. Theres a bug that stops you actually taking enemy land though but you can free your allies land.

 

[Raen]

Originally posted by Deaghaidh

1. Industry and resources: It seems to me that my IC is fluctuating very wildly. I know why: in most cases, its lack of rubber. I'm trading on the world market, and I'll hit stretches where everything is cool, and then suddenly my IC bombs out. I'm still offering trade, its just like there's no rubber to buy. At least now I understand the Japanese a bit better I'm having to adjust my sliders on a day to day basis in peacetime. I get the distinct impression that i'm not handling the rubber supply (and to a less severe extent oil) as well as I should. Any suggestions?

You may know this already, but there's a very useful page in the ledger (sorry, don't remember the page number, but select Economics and then click the right arrow once) that shows you the total resources you have coming in each day (although note that you have to let the game run at least to the start of a new day after loading or starting a new game for it to be accurate).

Whenever I start a new scenario, I consult that page and juggle things until all my incoming amounts are positive. Once you've got it set up correctly you rarely have to consult it, except for extreme things like going to war from a peacetime status.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Thanx guys, I'm really starting to hit my stride now

Playing Canada, I produced an oil surplus of 40 (all my oil, but didn't need any at start) and a steel surplus of 90 (out of 180), with a coal shortfall of around 40. Trading surplus steel (around 45 @ 3-1 for oil, another 40 @ 2-1 for coal) and oil (2-1 for rubber) got my economy stabilized at around 75% of my max. After meeting the minimum consumer goods and supplies I had enough to research one of the big industry techs (leading up to Synthetic Rubber), one doctrinal tech (usually for land but also the one that gives transports) and one-two smaller techs (the component technologies for basic tanks, Service Rifle, signal corps and such). I was cruising along pretty good, didn't spend anything on unit production till around mid-1938).

Built myself a Mechanized Infantry Division, and a pair of transports just in time for the german blitz of France. Out of stubborn pride, I decided to send the entire Canadian Army to France. Loaded up my Mech Inf and Two Regular Infantry (led by Canada's one historical leader at the start), and landed in Brest about the same time as the Germans were driving through the Low Countries. Then we had a race to Paris.

The Germans looked about to win when they threw me by turning toward the coast to hammer a pocket of about 6 divisions of French troops that they'd cut off. Only about three made it out, but it gave me time to dig in around Paris. The AI showed scrambled some assorted units to the northern front, and pretty quickly had six divisions in Paris, but didn't guard toward the Channel Coast. Fearing another envelopment I shifted the Canadian Army (still untried) to plug the whole, with my three divisions against hitlers three corps :O Then I checked out the southern front against Italy (Spain went Communist) and got frustrated with the AI (they were sending two precious divisions on a suicide run when I needed the support up north) that I asked for military control, and was accepted That's where I was when I saved because my computer's been acting funny

But while all that was going on, I developed a problem. As I said before, I have a shortfall of both rubber and coal. I'd been trading for about enough rubber and a few too little coal, then burning off my steel reserve to buy more coal when it got too low by going 200/100 for a week or two, then turning it off. It worked well enough for peacetime, but either I'm burning more coal or making less steel now, and it doesn't bounce back quick enough to pay off the next crisis. It's getting to the point where steel is now often the scarce resource, but if I stop selling production torpedos when I need it most (rubber has stabilized, with Synthetic Rubber Plants I can convert enough oil into rubber to keep things running)

Any advice?

 

[unmerged(3999)]

If you didn't know this, when at war you only get half of what you're trading for on the world market. I was playing Canada last night and couldn't get my wartime economy over 72 or so. Then again I didn't bother with synthetic rubber, because I wanted to research and build a Canadian Basic Cruiser. And I did.

 

[unmerged(11934)]

Originally posted by Deaghaidh
...Trading surplus steel (around 45 @ 3-1 for oil, another 40 @ 2-1 for coal) and oil (2-1 for rubber)...
Any advice?

You maybe want to make sure that those 2 to 1 trade works, especially the 2 to 1 for rubber... !!!

1 - Check the Trade screen and sort them by priority... check where your trade stands and if they are too far down you are probably not receiveing anything but you STILL pay the resources engaged...

2 - Check the ledger screen #3 and look at how much you're sending to the world market and how much you receive... do the maths... it's another way to find out if thoses 2 to 1 trade agreement work... 3 to 1 almost always works... Try to keep the number at the bottom of ledger #3 positive...

3 - You might want to slack on production/research for a few month to replenish the stock...

4 - I noticed that in war time you won't receive the full payment from the trade agreement... I don't know if anyone else noticed that too...

Check it and get back to us...

BTW: Canada ain't that bad after all Eh!... whatever what "Kitten" has to say about it

 

[Darkrenown]

Re: Re: HoI 101

Originally posted by Raen
You may know this already, but there's a very useful page in the ledger (sorry, don't remember the page number....

Whenever I start a new scenario, I consult that page and juggle things until all my incoming amounts are positive. Once you've got it set up correctly you rarely have to consult it, except for extreme things like going to war from a peacetime status.

Page 3.

You should wait untill the 3rd day after the game start before sorting things out as the numbers tend to jump about untill then.

 

[unmerged(12036)]

For resource shortages.
Sometimes government spending is the answer...

What I mean is that by upgrading your provences, (say its infrastructure), you only get half IC production. This can be a bad thing but consider that those ICs are no longer using resources.

This can be a powerful tool which can stem a downward spiral if applied correctly. At the end of the upgrade you reap its benefits and have the option to do it again. This may get you through a resource pinch and will 'use' those IC you didn't have the resources for anyhow.

Maybe it's an expolit but I prefer to think of it as an undocumented feature. ie Govt spending. =)

Hope that makes sense and helps.
Bravic

 

[Deaghaidh]

Thanks guys, more great stuff I didn't know about the decrease in trade payoff, but it makes perfect sense. I'll probably stop most of my imports, since I can limp along better with domestic production. Still won't leave me many IC's to build more troops to reinforce the French, but hey, I'm freaking Canada

 

[Xipe]

Originally posted by Deaghaidh
1. Industry and resources: It seems to me that my IC is fluctuating very wildly. I know why: in most cases, its lack of rubber. I'm trading on the world market, and I'll hit stretches where everything is cool, and then suddenly my IC bombs out.
Like someone already said; learn to live with 3-to-1 trades... but unless you're expanding wildly (resources come to the expanders ) you should focus on the Industrial techs that will give youn 2-to-1 oil-to-rubber conversion (and ultimately 1-to-1).

2. Research: How many research projects do you keep up at one time? Is it better to focus on one area (i.e., tanks, aircraft, navy) or to plod along more evenly in many? What, in your opinion, are must haves early on?
I do it evenly with a focus on one or two things that I am focusing on - i.e. I take all techs more or less evenly; but if I'm focusing on tanks I'll prioritize all the vital techs for tanks.

3. Coordinating/ Organizing forces: How severe is the penalty for going over a leader's maximum organized units? Is it better to concentrate into a few uberarmies/fleets or to have a line of smaller units?
Against the AI today (since it's always behind you in tech) smaller units work very well, I usually organize my fleets in forces of about 4-6 vessels, and my armies in groups of 3-5.

4. Organization values: These always seem way to low, I'm doing well in most cases to be at 40% even in wartime. I know researching doctrines up the values, but they take so long and cost so much. Is there another way to up my Org % faster (assuming full supply, which I normally have)?
Nope. I always keep at least one active doctrine in my tech research (even if it's the last one receiving only 10 IC, I always have one active).

5. Navies: These frighten and confuse me, especially as England How do you guys use them? What are you're techniques for hunting down u-boats, and using your own submarines?
I've given up on subs... they are too tedious to govern. My navies when playing USA or UK are - Taskforces with CV's and a complement of other vessels, Cruiser Groups with just *fast* cruisers and maybe a few destroyers, and finally if I have a BB or two to spare from the Carrier Taskforces I'll make one or two BB forces with cruisers as complement.

And how can I equip my carriers with planes?
Just land them. A tip is to have 2-4 carriers in each Carrier Group, that way you'll have more punch from your airforce and can also combine bombers with escorts.

 

[unmerged(4260)]

Doctrine tech is really tough as a minor (I found this out as Yugoslavia), however, artillery tech is comparatively cheap and fast (mostly 8IC/90 days) and can add quite a bit of punch to your units (since every single one you build should have a brigade attatched). But sooner or later doctrine is necessary- I always keep the next doctrine to pick up the extra IC points that your other techs aren't using and then prioritize it later

 

[Deaghaidh]

A status Report:

After assuming control of what was left of the French, Belgian and Dutch armies, I was left with the bulk of the Belgians and dutch (11 divisions strong) cut off two provinces away from the new front lines. I managed to pull the french troops out of the Maginot line and reinforced the southerly defenses. Musselini was slowly grinding forward from the south, I could really do nothing about it. I made a stab at liberating the Belgians and dutch (11 precious divisions!) by throwing most of the Paris defense at a weak spot in the german lines. Of course, even after I shared my doctrinal advances (it must have been humbling for the French officers to have Canadians teach them how to fight They were way behind me) the Germans were still a good 40% better organized than I was. The Belgians and Dutch were stopped from escaping despite massively outnumbering their enemy, so I had too call off the attack on the oposite side of the line. If my troops had been of the same caliber as the Germans, I would have turned the tables and encircled half of the Nazi army. C'est la vie

I managed to hold the resulting defensive line in France for most of the year. I even beat off a very determined attack on Paris, by far the biggest battle, 9 german divisions against 11 or so French (including the Canadian Army). At this point I was thinking I could hold the line until the Yanks came marching in.

Then, the Luftwaffe showed up. I don't know where they were the first few months of the Campaign. Poland crumbled historically, they weren't tied up there. The English were infuriatingly quiet. But all I'd seen until late november were a couple of dive bombers, which, while bad, was nothing compared to what hit me in the Winter. At least nine squadrons (it was hard to count, they moved so quickly) suddenly came and blitz bombed Paris hard. I was playing on Easy, and the AI still was good enough to keep up round-the-clock air raids on Pairs. In despiration I got military control of England and sent two RAF fighter squadrons (with their venerable biplanes) to try to get some air cover. That was dumb, they lasted about 5 minutes. The Paris defense (now by far the bulk of the troops in the north) was ground into the low teens in Org value when the Germans steppped up the attack again. Hitler must have rung Musselini up and told him what was up, cause the Italians suddenly woke up and plowed into me with about 11 divisions and air support of their own.

I tried to evacuate France. But snooty French troops wouldn't board Canadian transports, even with the Nazi hordes behind them! Uppity bastards My own troops were, with the rest of Paris's defense, desperatly trying to stay ahead of the Germans and get to the coast. The AI must have figured I would do that, cause they sent a force sweeping around, snatching the channel coast and brittany, then sweeping south until they met the Italian advance. So the whole allied army in Europe was lassoed up. They fought to the last, though, and the 1st Canadian Mechanized was one of the last units left when they made their last stand.

I've never enjoyed having my ass handed to me so much Granted, the Germans and Italians had the odds on their side from the get-go, but I still managed to lose even more decisively than the real-life French For the future I had a couple of motorized Inf divisions coming up that I plan on sending to England, just in case. After that, I believe that Canada's future will be mainly as a tech lab for the allies

And now for the question portion of our post: How can I give up military control? I'd rather let the dutch ships in the East Indies mind their own affairs from now on, and ditto with the Brits. Do I need to edit the savegame, or something?