Hiveminds: Wait, do I even NEED food?

[Dementor4]

So as far as I can tell, there are two penalties for hitting zero food:

-Pop Happiness (which does not effect Hiveminds)
-Pop Growth Reduction (-75%)

The latter point seems crippling right until you figure out that buildings/jobs with food required in their upkeep costs seem to function just fine without food. And you still get the +33% bonus to pop growth from the "Nutritional Plenitude" policy even if there's no nutrition available at all. So, that's a 33% bonus from the policy, 25% bonus just for being a hivemind, and 25% bonus for the "Spawning Pool" building and the job it produces.

So a STARVING hivemind still has a growth rate 8% above the baseline.

Does it matter HOW MUCH I'm starving? Is the starvation penalty identical at -5 food as it is at -100 food?

I don't see a good reason to keep my farms open at all. Switch them all to generators and mines.

 

[Dementor4]

So I suppose there are a number of things you need food for, such as building colony ships and some edicts and such. But if you've taken all your resources from your farms to the rest of your economy, can't you just pause the game, buy however much food you need on "the market", build whatever it is you're building, and go about your day?

 

[Chthon]

By my calculation you're at 48% below starting threshold.

100% * 75% * 133% * 125% * 125% = 51.95%

I am pretty sure the bonuses are multiplicative, not additive as you're doing.

 

[Chthon]

Growth? Growth is additive.

Wait, I forgot you add the growth bonuses together, and I meant 25% not 75%. Hover over the bar under your population and see how it applies the bonuses and you'll see for yourself.

100% * 25% * 183% = 45.75%

So it's even worse than I said before. You do not add the 75% with the 183%. You would need a growth bonus of 300% to overcome the 75% malus.

Sorry about the error before, I just woke up.

 

[Secret Master]

I don't see a good reason to keep my farms open at all. Switch them all to generators and mines.

I prefer my POP growth so I can have three times the population of my neighbors at the 100 year mark...

... but since there is no further penalty when you starve more, I don't see any reason you can't take extreme measures in some years of the early game to get a jump on minerals or energy during a crucial early war.

 

[fodazd]

...Can you still just buy 1 food each month to cancel the penalty entirely? If that is the case, then no, you don't need food, and the penalty for not having food is you pay about 1 or 2 energy each month.

 

[Urza1234]

By my calculation you're at 48% below starting threshold.

100% * 75% * 133% * 125% * 125% = 51.95%

I am pretty sure the bonuses are multiplicative, not additive as you're doing.

There are two modifiers to growth:
pop_growth_speed
pop_growth_speed_reduction

pop_growth_speed is additive with itself.
pop_growth_speed is multiplicative with your growth number after pop_growth_speed is calculated.

 

[Urza1234]

-Pop Happiness (which does not effect Hiveminds)
-Pop Growth Reduction (-75%)

food_deficit = {
    biological_pop_happiness = -0.25
    pop_growth_speed_reduction = 0.75
}

yep.
And yes the starvation penalty is the same no matter your food deficit.

 

[Talanic]

Wait, I forgot you add the growth bonuses together, and I meant 25% not 75%. Hover over the bar under your population and see how it applies the bonuses and you'll see for yourself.

100% * 25% * 183% = 45.75%

So it's even worse than I said before. You do not add the 75% with the 183%. You would need a growth bonus of 300% to overcome the 75% malus.

Sorry about the error before, I just woke up.

Tested and confirmed. From base of 3.0, +25% + 25% + 33% - 75% drops pop growth to 1.37 per month.

 

[Everstill]

The question is why the Hell starvation don't kill Pops?

Starvation should Decline all biological Pops on all planets because they are Starving.

Over time the problem will fix itself and Starvation will stop.

 

[Urza1234]

The question is why the Hell starvation don't kill Pops?

Starvation should Decline all biological Pops on all planets because they are Starving.

Over time the problem will fix itself and Starvation will stop.

Yeah that would be good for Paradox to add.

On our end it you could model that by adding a housing modifier to starving.

 

[Chthon]

Yeah that would be good for Paradox to add.

On our end it you could model that by adding a housing modifier to starving.

All you would have to do is change the reduction modifier from x 0.25 to x -0.25

If you do that then you get starvation... maybe... if they coded it to be handled that way.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

The question is why the Hell starvation don't kill Pops?

Starvation should Decline all biological Pops on all planets because they are Starving.

Over time the problem will fix itself and Starvation will stop.

If your growth rate drops enough because of it, you will get population decline.
But that probably needs several other factors to go wrong as well.

All you would have to do is change the reduction modifier from x 0.25 to x -0.25

If you do that then you get starvation... maybe... if they coded it to be handled that way.

I'm not sure, but I think that solution would instantly turn most planets to having negative housing available. Not negative one or two levels, large negative values, and they'd be worse the more housing you'd built - even if not occupied.

 

[Chthon]

If your growth rate drops enough because of it, you will get population decline.
But that probably needs several other factors to go wrong as well.



I'm not sure, but I think that solution would instantly turn most planets to having negative housing available. Not negative one or two levels, large negative values, and they'd be worse the more housing you'd built - even if not occupied.

Yeah, I figure something would be off for that to be easy.

Not hard to fix if I could get at the code though.