Hivemind Civics are Seriously Lacking

Hivemind Civics are Seriously Lacking

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Threetails

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As far as low-hanging fruit goes in terms of easy fixes, I feel like this is definitely something up there. In terms of good and unique civics, Hiveminds literally only have Devouring Swarm. All the other Hivemind civics are either bread and butter or bread and butter and bad. Maybe this is just me, but I feel like there could be a whole bunch of different cool Civics, ones that I can practically yank off the top of my head out of sci-fi. They're mostly (all) kind of food-centric, but I feel like food, in general, is Hivemind's shtick.

- Why not have a Hivemind start with two or three different species, something along the lines of evolutionary symbiosis or mutualism (Symbiotic Mutualism)
- Maybe have a civic that starts a Hivemind with 3-4 Livestock, the ability to grow more livestock (as opposed to machines), increased food production from livestock by like 1 or 2, but less production from drones and a penalty to opinion with everybody else in the galaxy (honestly don't know why this isn't a thing) (Natural XenoPhages)
-A civic that increases food by 1 and gives an extra farmer job kind of like a Hivemind version of Rockbreakers (Botanical Husbandry)
-A civic that adds to or replaces some of military ship's production and upkeep costs with food and makes them regenerate armor and health and have less a chance of getting destroyed in combat (Biological Armaments)
-A civic that replaces some specialist upkeep costs with food (Food for Thought)

I dunno, maybe some of those are overpowered or would at least need to be carefully balanced, but I came up with all these in less than half an hour; I'm sure the big brains at Paradox can come up with better. It would just be nice to be able to have more than 1 truly civic supported playstyle on Hivemind. No two non-DS Hivemind civics are better than Byzantine Bureaucracy alone.

TL;DR, What I'm trying to say is that while some of my ideas might be bad, it would be nice if there were some good Hivemind civic options aside from devouring the entire galaxy.
 
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Methone

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Don't have to tell me twice.

I think they should get 2 more Personality-changing ones (Like Assimilator and Servitors for Machines) and the rest of their civics should be given the Warrior Culture treatment.
 
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nikkythegreat

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Everyone has been complaining about the lack of variety for hive minds since 1.9 to no avail.

Hell, since they give regular empires 2 new civics per DLC they should give hive minds and machine intelligence one each as well.
 
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Bankipriel

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I'm still hoping for a hive race DLC w/ new shipset, new city set, new civics & the biological (food based) ships that were teased by Wiz prior to the economy re-work.

A fella can dream, right?
 
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Urloc the Great

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As far as low-hanging fruit goes in terms of easy fixes, I feel like this is definitely something up there. In terms of good and unique civics, Hiveminds literally only have Devouring Swarm. All the other Hivemind civics are either bread and butter or bread and butter and bad. Maybe this is just me, but I feel like there could be a whole bunch of different cool Civics, ones that I can practically yank off the top of my head out of sci-fi. They're mostly (all) kind of food-centric, but I feel like food, in general, is Hivemind's shtick.

- Why not have a Hivemind start with two or three different species, something along the lines of evolutionary symbiosis or mutualism (Symbiotic Mutualism)
- Maybe have a civic that starts a Hivemind with 3-4 Livestock, the ability to grow more livestock (as opposed to machines), increased food production from livestock by like 1 or 2, but less production from drones and a penalty to opinion with everybody else in the galaxy (honestly don't know why this isn't a thing) (Natural XenoPhages)
-A civic that increases food by 1 and gives an extra farmer job kind of like a Hivemind version of Rockbreakers (Botanical Husbandry)
-A civic that adds to or replaces some of military ship's production and upkeep costs with food and makes them regenerate armor and health and have less a chance of getting destroyed in combat (Biological Armaments)
-A civic that replaces some specialist upkeep costs with food (Food for Thought)

I dunno, maybe some of those are overpowered or would at least need to be carefully balanced, but I came up with all these in less than half an hour; I'm sure the big brains at Paradox can come up with better. It would just be nice to be able to have more than 1 truly civic supported playstyle on Hivemind. No two non-DS Hivemind civics are better than Byzantine Bureaucracy alone.

TL;DR, What I'm trying to say is that while some of my ideas might be bad, it would be nice if there were some good Hivemind civic options aside from devouring the entire galaxy.
And a Civic similar to life seeded, Maybe call it "offspring of the old hive" (reference to the Baol).
 

Miesha

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Preaching to the choir. Every hive mind player knows they're playing the short end of the stick these days.
Your suggestions are all pretty good, I'm especially fond of the one that changes ship production and upkeep to food. There's already mods for it but this really should be a baseline civic. Plus the AI cant play with those mods, they completely bail out.

Heck the AI cant play regular hiveminds at all currently, it's pretty sad.
 

Ikael

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The problem with hivemind civics is that they are super-boring. They are as vainilla as they come, and only devouring swarm changes gameplay somehow. There are many hivemind tropes that are left to explore and could become interesting civics with different mechanical effects, rather than "yet another flat +5% bonus to whatever". Where are the peaceful, baol-like hivemind? Alien queens? Hive-fleets? Parasitical hiveminds?
 

Mastikator

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Don't have to tell me twice.

I think they should get 2 more Personality-changing ones (Like Assimilator and Servitors for Machines) and the rest of their civics should be given the Warrior Culture treatment.
I'm curious what other kinds of personality a hive mind could have.
 

FonVegen

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I'm curious what other kinds of personality a hive mind could have.
Could have one that tries to emulate regular empires and coexist with them. A kind of pseudo-xenophile one that gets less of an opinion penalty and faster trust growth with regular empire if you for whatever reason want to play the federation game as a hive mind.

Another could be a techno-hive mind, one in which the hive was created through artificial means. Might change some things about ship cost and upkeep and perhaps even add something like the cyborg trait, but that might get in the way of Assimilators (on top of cyborgs being pretty powerful and the habitability bonus providing some hefty early game boosts for an empire like that).
 

Sinister2202

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Hivemind, machine... I think the most disappointing aspect of them is that they are way too familiar. They play too similar to regular empires.
 

Mastikator

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Could have one that tries to emulate regular empires and coexist with them. A kind of pseudo-xenophile one that gets less of an opinion penalty and faster trust growth with regular empire if you for whatever reason want to play the federation game as a hive mind.

Another could be a techno-hive mind, one in which the hive was created through artificial means. Might change some things about ship cost and upkeep and perhaps even add something like the cyborg trait, but that might get in the way of Assimilators (on top of cyborgs being pretty powerful and the habitability bonus providing some hefty early game boosts for an empire like that).
Now that I think about it a common trope is also the parasitic hive mind. Night of the Body Snatchers style hive mind that works similar to the Driven Assimilator, instead of turning bio pops into cyborgs they assimilate them into hive minded. We already have the game mechanics in place since they would probably work very much like DA.
 

Cat_Fuzz

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I've modded a game where civics get multiple bonuses that almost double the modifiers, however it also doubles the cost to reform your civics. Makes hiveminds very specialist bit without the flexibility of other regular empires.
 

Ikael

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I'm curious what other kinds of personality a hive mind could have.
There are many flavours for hiveminds that could be implemented via civics:

Benevolent harmony: "Your hivemind was born due to a peaceful, non-invasive telepathic consensus. Individuals can submit or reject the hivemind willingly, preserving a high degree of autonomy. However, most of your popullation choses to remain connected to hivemind thanks to the peace of mind and sense of community that it provides to its loyal adherents"

Parasitical: "Your hivemind was created by a small neural parasyte that took control of the creatures with the most useful prensatile appendages in your planet millenia ago. This parasite is incredibly adaptative, being able to survive and thrieve in another foreign, even extraterrestial brains"

Symbiotic: "Your hivemind is a gestalt consciousness born out of a of a microscopic yet extremely complex symbiotic organism. Other species lended their neural cappabilities to your hive and in exchange your species altered their DNA, turning them stronger, healthier and smarter in exchange of their individuality. This millenia-old successful cooperation will be one of your biggest assets in this new foray into the stars"

Hive-fleets: "This hivemind is speciallized in the control of small aircrafts and spaceships, which are directly controlled by its nervous system as if they were a mere physical appendage"

Omniscient: "The brain is all knowing, all seeing. Its percetion is pure, untainted by individuality. Nothing can escape from its sight"

Sexual pheromones: "Almost every animal of your homeplanet feels attracted to the pheromones from your species, making them feel an irresistible, never satiated sexual urge that clouds their judgement. Your hivemind has long employed this tactic in order to lure prey and willing servants for your race, the fact that we will now meet new intelligent species from other planets won't reduce the effectiveness of this millenia-old evolutionary strategy"

Hivemind queens: "This hivemind can offer a certain degree of autonomy to certain wondrous creatures known as Queens, which can aid the brood by helping our species to multiply and by personally overseeing the drones"

Impregnation drones (facehuggers!): "Your hivemind have created a specialized type of drones whose sole purpouse is the rapid reproduction of your species by impregnating another animals and using their flesh to incubate and feed our yet to be born children, a practice that many other races find repugnant but that ensures your numerical superiority"

Hiveminds are seriously under-used and under-developed.
 

Bankipriel

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Some Hivemind civics/concepts I would enjoy seeing in the game or in a hive-focused DLC:

1) The Union : the union-mind transcends the material vessel --- incorporate any species into the hive, along the lines of DA, but maybe not so driven

2) The Promethean : ancient shroud entity that was banished for sharing forbidden secrets with mortals --- a syncretic evolution model with incorporeal Promethean manifestations & material acolytes / should be allowed to pursue psionic ascension through acolytes in an attempt to backdoor-access the powers that were taken from it when banished

3) The Hunger : a psychic vampire (or shroud demon) that builds psychic hive-automatons (using robot mechanics), but requires the purged souls/psychic-essence of natural born biological species. Replace "food" with "essence," give a starting stockpile that can last a few decades, and give the raiding stance ability for pop-abduction. Probably no diplomacy.

4) The Keepers : enemy of the Hunters, ideologically opposed (stand & fight, rather than run) brood-cousins of the Prethoryn -- the keepers of life seeded the universe with stasis-seed brood queens, sent to help prepare as many galaxies as possible to fight the Hunters, in the hope that one might become strong enough to survive --- fanatic pacifist / "criminal syndicate" play with unique usage of corporate tab, allowing the Keeper Hive to strengthen other empires as it seeks to prepare itself for the Hunters' inevitable arrival. Probably best if also misunderstood and hated by everyone. Wouldn't mind "The Hunters" as a mandatory x5 crisis triggered 50 years after defeating the Prethoryn for those of us that are gluttons for punishment --- vrepit sa.

5) The Pollinators : a sentient biome with pops that serve as space "bees" --- super tall play empire --- colonize & auto-terraform *any* planet to chosen biome, but can only claim systems adjacent to systems that already have a unique tier 2 or 3 capital building, limiting system claims by pop-growth, but making each system a powerhouse. No habitats or ringworlds.
 

Badesumofu

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I feel like Hiveminds are seriously lacking in most respects at the moment. It would be great if 2.4 also focuses on improving some of the empire types, civics, authorities etc that need some love. Hiveminds would be high on that list.
 

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There could be so many nice civics. If gameplay changing ones are too time consuming to make just add more simple ones.

Otherwise I would like something like +1 max trait point, that changes a civil slot for an improved starting species.

Or diversified drones that allows you to have specialized menial drones like in syncretic evolution, just with only one species.

Returning the old adaptility finisher that gave farmers +1 mineral output could come back as a hivemind twist on mining guilds.

I also really liked the idea of being able to start with livestock.
 

Pale Blue

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We might as well start a modding topic... y'know... *hint-hint-wink-wink*.
Of course that's moddable. The point is you should not be forced to mod hivemind civics to make them interesting or good and equal to normal empires civics, that should already be part of the base game. Normal empire civic get basically added or reworked with every dlc to make them more interesting, yet hivemind only get touched if absolutely necessary. Look at the rework of technocracy or warrior culture, while hivemind still have the old version of them.
 

Methone

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Oct 27, 2018
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