Hive Minds of some form or another have been confirmed to be part of Utopia, under the category of "Advanced Governments". They likely wont be something you can start the game as, but rather something you develop later.
Hive Mind or "We sure do think alike"
- Thread starter Strager
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
With what he posted, starting as a hive mind would screw you, all the ships, but stuck at starting tech, can't colonize normally etc etc.
And since linked with species, primitive invasions aren't a real solution
And since linked with species, primitive invasions aren't a real solution
Those were just example mechanics to get people thinking.... I do very much think that there should be 2 kinds... Starting as a Hive-Mind (like a zerg or SST Bugs etc.) race could be done in a balanced way, although i'm fairly certain they are focusing on the later-type for this expansion.
I agree it can happen. I don't know where I'd start. Probably personally do it mimicking the Geth fromm ME.
They're not collective, but communicate instantly in the network. Millions of opinions deliberated in a second
+research
They dont value the individual at all. A lone geth is basically animalistic. Squads use tactics and such.
+some army bonus
+scaling pop bonus as more pops are on the planet
-lower overall base collection amounts or something.
Governments? Wouldn't exist a hive would essentially be a single organism.
As far as unity, idk. Too easy to pile it up if your pops don't diverge.
As far as becoming vs starting hive mind, also no idea, if your main species is becoming wouldn't it be quick as they want to be it, since you are pursuing it?
These are just some ideas nothing id even defend really, except the science one, probably naked it the more pops on x lab boosts x research a little more each one.
They're not collective, but communicate instantly in the network. Millions of opinions deliberated in a second
+research
They dont value the individual at all. A lone geth is basically animalistic. Squads use tactics and such.
+some army bonus
+scaling pop bonus as more pops are on the planet
-lower overall base collection amounts or something.
Governments? Wouldn't exist a hive would essentially be a single organism.
As far as unity, idk. Too easy to pile it up if your pops don't diverge.
As far as becoming vs starting hive mind, also no idea, if your main species is becoming wouldn't it be quick as they want to be it, since you are pursuing it?
These are just some ideas nothing id even defend really, except the science one, probably naked it the more pops on x lab boosts x research a little more each one.
Materialist and spiritualist empires who want to do the synth and psionic victories need to research certain techs before picking those perks. Perhaps a collectivist victory would require the species to have a certain trait before further developing a hive mind. Meaning you could start with a gene for the precursor of the hivemind perk (which would just be a more costly and more powerful conformist trait). Or you can gene mod it into the majority of your demographics so you can do that victory if you like.
I'd argue the direct democracy system that install chips in your head and make all decisions based on a vote determined by your consciousness exhibits some properties of hivemind(All population agrees on the same decision once the vote ends), and there could certainly be some technology that help convert other aliens into your hivemind system, after all, our thought and feelings are only chemical reactions, surely there's ways to regulate them.
So there could be a natural hivemind species, such as space ants and space bees, or space illithid. There could also be species who adopted hivemind through technology advancement, either they adopt it willingly or forced by conquerors. This technolgy could be materialistic, alerting your brain with knowledge of physics and chemistry; it could also be spiritualistic, altering your way of thinking by putting your mind in a giant psionic web.
So there could be a natural hivemind species, such as space ants and space bees, or space illithid. There could also be species who adopted hivemind through technology advancement, either they adopt it willingly or forced by conquerors. This technolgy could be materialistic, alerting your brain with knowledge of physics and chemistry; it could also be spiritualistic, altering your way of thinking by putting your mind in a giant psionic web.
I wonder if there will be an option to develop a mental network that doesn't completely abolish the concept of individual. Kind of like the Borg cooperative in star trek voyager.
A geth platform isn't an individual, it's made up of thousands? of software which each is its own 'individual' hence why legion is called legion,
Geth do 'vote' on decisions and can disagree which is why you have the rogue geth in mass effect 2.
You're right that they're meant to be smarter the more of them that are in proximity as they share experiences etc
I would like it to work as someone else pointed out that you could 'build' pops (drones) from food in the similar way as robots.
id also add: pick two races as your starting race (one being the queens and the other the drones) have the queen's grow like normal pops but ALOT slower and you can't grow drones on a planet without one.
Have a massive science malus but be able to get boosts by eating alien pops (like starship troopers with those hivemind things), if they lose a planet in a war all their drones and queens are exterminated on the planet as the rest of the galaxy doesn't treat them as normal life (which they don't with prethoryn) and if they capture a planet from normal races they automatically set them to be harvested.
Can colonize any type of habitable planet and will have massive growth but only basic levels of diplomacy.
id also add: pick two races as your starting race (one being the queens and the other the drones) have the queen's grow like normal pops but ALOT slower and you can't grow drones on a planet without one.
Have a massive science malus but be able to get boosts by eating alien pops (like starship troopers with those hivemind things), if they lose a planet in a war all their drones and queens are exterminated on the planet as the rest of the galaxy doesn't treat them as normal life (which they don't with prethoryn) and if they capture a planet from normal races they automatically set them to be harvested.
Can colonize any type of habitable planet and will have massive growth but only basic levels of diplomacy.
The physical platform ie the robots you shoot at, are not geth, the Geth occupy the code inside. Each one of those platforms carried a certain bunch of vi code, which allowed them to operate as individuals (ie the one platform was one geth)
They live inside the networked ai, and occupy platforms to interact with the physical realm to further their goals
Again they are not technically a hive mind as it is defined, but probably the best place to build one from for this game, as they have the attributes of hive minds, but also singular pops and balance would require an approach from both ends (starting vs drifting into hive mind) and the bonuses and maluses thrown in to fit it's niche in the game.
I personally see +science and army buff, and -production and or minerals
They are efficient, but to their ends not as we define it. So it kind of makes sense, but all of these are arbitrary
I think hive minds would be interesting. Sure, you'd replace the happiness mechanic with a control mechanic instead, as maintaining control over the "appendages" of the collective organism over galactic distances would be paramount. This should probably result in an increased focus on leaders as sources of happiness/control, with a corresponding penalty if a leader dies or is killed, and is not quickly replaced. Fleets without leaders would be ineffective. Sectors without leaders would have serious problems, and each sector would have a maximum amount of populated systems (or even pops) allowed in it before control starts to falter. Factions might not exist, but control loss could very quickly lead to a small civil war or a screeching halt to a large section of your economy. A hive mind conquering enemy worlds would result in mass purges or irreversible conversions of pops over time. An enemy conquering a hive mind world would result in a self purge, or a fight to the death where all the pops disappear. A series of events might be introduced where losses of leaders or insufficient control cause a hostile leader to naturally emerge, take control, and attempt to assert hostile supremacy over the rest of the hive mind (e.g. a quicker revolt). Maintaining internal control would maybe be slightly easier most of the time, but the stakes would be much, much higher if you do lose control, so management of influence becomes incredibly important due to more pressure on leaders and more penalties if they are not replaced. And of course their diplomacy would be incredibly self serving and mostly belligerent.
The main reason I'm interested in hive minds is in regards to playing against them. It'll at least give a bit more variety to what you currently encounter on the galactic stage.
The main reason I'm interested in hive minds is in regards to playing against them. It'll at least give a bit more variety to what you currently encounter on the galactic stage.
If that honeycomb symbol means what I think it does, looks like Hive Minds won't (just) be some advanced government type.
If you conquer pops of the hive mind, I worry they might still be unable to work for you as they are bound to their hive mind. They might even cause trouble on behalf of the hive mind, as they're loyal to the hive mind to the end. It'd be quite a mess to deal with them if you cannot purge.
Perhaps you might need some psi disruption tech, to make their pops "free", and until then, their pops work for you at 0 happiness and will try to escape back to their hive mind's space.
Perhaps you can kill the hive mind, and everyone of the species gets reduced into pre-sentients that can be uplifted later!
All in all I'm really curious how it's going to be implemented!
Perhaps you might need some psi disruption tech, to make their pops "free", and until then, their pops work for you at 0 happiness and will try to escape back to their hive mind's space.
Perhaps you can kill the hive mind, and everyone of the species gets reduced into pre-sentients that can be uplifted later!
All in all I'm really curious how it's going to be implemented!
The Borg have a Queen. She is "how they think". Bees also have a Queen and that seems to work. Where do you think the whole "Hive Mind" idea originates from? Sci-fi. lol...
I dont know why but I pictured pops who are captured in wars for a planet, if their source to the hive mind connection is cut (like if it's a worm hole generator reskin, or a colony building) just turning into 'pre-sentient' pops but revert to normal if reintroduced. *Chuckle* Cause if that wasn't the case, then those pops would be permanent sight on a planet not in your sensor range and be your spies.
Also events that cause a 'X pops gain Y Ethic' events should effect all your pops connecting to said triggering location. I can think of a few events like that, hehe.
Hive avatars might be interesting, basically if a planet has a governor or a general manning the defense/assault army etc, then they act as your link to the hive to whatever they're attached to in case your connection is severed (at least temporarily - perhaps introduce chance of forces starting their own splinter group the longer they are apart from the hive mind as the leader assumes control and is no longer controlled) making leaders important to a hive. Maybe have fleets go dormant if cut off with no leader, but if they have an admiral and their connection is severed then the admiral can assume control enough to move them back into hive mind territory or can continue the battle/etc but at a risk of turning into a pirate faction.
Also events that cause a 'X pops gain Y Ethic' events should effect all your pops connecting to said triggering location. I can think of a few events like that, hehe.
Hive avatars might be interesting, basically if a planet has a governor or a general manning the defense/assault army etc, then they act as your link to the hive to whatever they're attached to in case your connection is severed (at least temporarily - perhaps introduce chance of forces starting their own splinter group the longer they are apart from the hive mind as the leader assumes control and is no longer controlled) making leaders important to a hive. Maybe have fleets go dormant if cut off with no leader, but if they have an admiral and their connection is severed then the admiral can assume control enough to move them back into hive mind territory or can continue the battle/etc but at a risk of turning into a pirate faction.
Hopefully the possible Hive Mind civics will cover the different flavors of Hive Mind, including whether or not it's something that other species can partake in.
It's more than just the type of hivemind, there's the internal structure to it as well.
whilst its reasonable to assume robotic (or plant/fungus possibly too) based ones to be all be the same
that is going to be less likely for other organic lifeforms which would be more like to have a caste-like structure.
if youre invading a hivemind world, youre probably going to want to purge it, trying to integrate them should be mostly futile.
whilst several traits have been mentioned in previous posts, theres a lot that haven't that could also be there
- resistance to conversion by alien conquerors
- bonus to defence for armies when invaded
- bonus to happiness values
- increased chance of rebellion when conquered
- reduced chance of formation of factions
- reduced chance of sector dissention
- bonus to general production
list is not exhaustive.
whilst its reasonable to assume robotic (or plant/fungus possibly too) based ones to be all be the same
that is going to be less likely for other organic lifeforms which would be more like to have a caste-like structure.
if youre invading a hivemind world, youre probably going to want to purge it, trying to integrate them should be mostly futile.
whilst several traits have been mentioned in previous posts, theres a lot that haven't that could also be there
- resistance to conversion by alien conquerors
- bonus to defence for armies when invaded
- bonus to happiness values
- increased chance of rebellion when conquered
- reduced chance of formation of factions
- reduced chance of sector dissention
- bonus to general production
list is not exhaustive.
Personally I would prefer it if a hivemind did not purge a race once they took over a planet. Sure there are multiple types of hiveminds, Geth from ME, Borg from Star Trek, Bugs from Starship Troopers, Killiks from Star Wars, and finally my personal favorite, the Flood from Halo. I currently building all of my own empires, they are based on a book im working on, and one of the groups is a hive mind like the Flood, just no creepy transforming of the host. I would like to be able to have different ethics for them, or worst case I'd prefer for the new ethic to give them a huge love for all species (since they want all species to join the hivemind), actually a boost to everything and no ethics divergence, the draw back would be that they are at war with all species, possibly even the Fallen Empires. Of course this is my own desires and it is more likely that it will be completely different. If y'all will allow me to give my two cents.
Hiveminds should be:
Hiveminds should be:
- Industrious
- Either rapid breeders or they are excellent at absorbing other species (this will allow people the ability to role play their galaxy slaughtering campains, or bring all species into the Hive),
- Honestly they really would not have a negative, especially if they act like a hivemind that wants all to join it, scientsts will give all their information to the hivemind, and anything that a common person knows that for some reason a scientist does not they would soon learn it. However in an effort to keep the game balanced a major negative might be an inability to change their research and maybe slow down research (although I protest this idea personally).
- Hard to kill, if a hive world is conquered than most likely all species on the planet will be wiped (you damn right a hive would use all of its resources to protect its planet, also no consciousness objectors) This will leave massive casulties on the attacking army, however one interesting thing could be disruption technology (as previously mentioned by @Diezy, though not limited to religous only) using this on a hivemind world could cause them to go crazy and start wiping each other out. It could also be interesting to get a tech that can "cure" an infected hivemind member, although again this is limited to a non-purging hivemind.