Hive Mind castes

[Aldernut]

Currently the only options available for Hive Mind species rights are:

1: Full Citizenship
2: Slaves (=livestock)
3: Undesirables

The problem here is, that there's no option for limited rights disallowing leaders.

This felt strange to me. When looking at species such as ants, bees, etc. that are the RL equivalent of hive minds, there are different castes for different tasks: queens, workers, warriors, so on. A worker or a warrior never becomes a queen.

It's also strange considering game mechanics: biological ascension is the only one available for hive minds, encouraging you to develop different strains for different tasks. There are many traits especially made for a leader species, yet they're largely useless since the leader pool will dilute with a multitude of other strains.

And finally, it's strange considering the game lore. Hive minds are explained to have semi-autonomous drones, which already are a caste of their own. That the game mechanics don't reflect this seems an example of ludonarrative dissonance.

My humble suggestion is, that hive minds will be allowed to limit citizenship per species.

 

[tobias.mb]

My humble suggestion is, that hive minds will be allowed to limit citizenship per species.

Good idea. The problem is, that you can currently not set seperate rights for sub-species. So a mechanic allowing this would also be needed.

 

[Aldernut]

Good idea. The problem is, that you can currently not set seperate rights for sub-species. So a mechanic allowing this would also be needed.

Indeed, good point

 

[Aldernut]

Now that I look at it further, military service would have to have "Limited" as an option too. Now it's automatically full.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Good idea. The problem is, that you can currently not set seperate rights for sub-species. So a mechanic allowing this would also be needed.

Yeah. It'd be very nice to be able to set subspecies rights individually. Or at least some of them- I presume no matter what we wouldn't be able to set subspecies to "Undesirable" status.

 

[tobias.mb]

Yeah. It'd be very nice to be able to set subspecies rights individually. Or at least some of them- I presume no matter what we wouldn't be able to set subspecies to "Undesirable" status.

Nah. I always wish I could purge those useless trash, that gene-modded themselves.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Nah. I always wish I could purge those useless trash, that gene-modded themselves.

Mm, see, there's a reason you're not allowed to purge subspecies- specifically, that it'd completely trash the Faction mechanic. The devs have explained this, back when that change was first made and purging was made into something done on a per-species basis.

 

[tobias.mb]

Why would it influence the faction mechanic? I'm not talking about purging specific pops. I want to purge all the idiots, who gene-modded themselves regardeless of faction they belong to.

 

[Sibericus]

Why would it influence the faction mechanic? I'm not talking about purging specific pops. I want to purge all the idiots, who gene-modded themselves regardeless of faction they belong to.

You can always revert any modifications they've made by applying the default/intended template to them. Ascension perk not required.

 

[tobias.mb]

Can you though? Last time I remember I couldn't do it because the self-modified trait would prevent me from modifying the (sub)species manually. Since then I have always avoided getting them, so it's been some time.

 

[Sibericus]

You don't modify the subspecies template directly unless you have Bio Ascension. You apply a different template to them, i.e. the default. Unless something changed and that doesn't work, because I swear it worked once.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Why would it influence the faction mechanic? I'm not talking about purging specific pops. I want to purge all the idiots, who gene-modded themselves regardeless of faction they belong to.

The ability to purge members of your own species effectively lets you purge specific POPs.

 

[Knut Are Mykland]

Well different castes for hiveminds sort of make sence from a roleplay perspective. It would be nice if they added that small perk for hiveminds. It is really a question of is the workload worth the benefit sort of thing. Currently it would make for a nice lategame bonus for hiveminds. Afterall lategame hiveminds are not very strong. no tier 3 combat computer, no happiness bonus production and no slavery bonus.

 

[Archael90]

In hive-mind you can gene-modified part of species to be stronger, more intelligent, or anything else. The pops on planets are workers, and they can have lot of different genes applied. In garrisons are warriors, there are different warriors, to fight on planets (and different in def, and att), and to fight in space. Some drones can be even leaders... so... i realy cant get the point from the topic. There are no castes, but there is so many tasks to do, and so many variations of pops that i just dont get what is it about.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Good idea. The problem is, that you can currently not set seperate rights for sub-species. So a mechanic allowing this would also be needed.

Which mostly just means that it's not limited to hive minds.

Species that want to engineer themselves an exclusive leadership caste whether they're hive minded or not can't do it, even if the concept is in the game via the Selected Lineages/Capacity Boosters techs.

 

[Aldernut]

Does anyone know if this is moddable ?

I fooled around a bit with species_rights.txt, but removing the "has_authority = auth_hive_mind" did nothing. The button for the option simply isn't there.

 

[Sapa Inca]

Different rights for different subspecies dont work with the current balance.
You would have exactly one pop with every leadership traits stacked and with full citizen rigths and all other pops with residence/caste/slavery rights.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Different rights for different subspecies dont work with the current balance.
You would have exactly one pop with every leadership traits stacked and with full citizen rigths and all other pops with residence/caste/slavery rights.

That doesn't seem like a necessarily bad thing to me.

Obviously, "Subspecies Rights" should be subject to the same restrictions as normal Species Rights, so you could only enslave your own subspecies if you had the right Ethos for it. Furthermore, if you have exactly 1 "Leadership" POP to draw from, if that ever gets killed you're in some degree of trouble.

 

[Sapa Inca]

That doesn't seem like a necessarily bad thing to me.

Obviously, "Subspecies Rights" should be subject to the same restrictions as normal Species Rights, so you could only enslave your own subspecies if you had the right Ethos for it. Furthermore, if you have exactly 1 "Leadership" POP to draw from, if that ever gets killed you're in some degree of trouble.

When battle thrall was introduced in the game, the devs introduced a "manpower-like" mechanic. The max number permited of assault armies of one specie is equal to the number of pops that you have of that specie.
The cause for this mechanic is to prevent players of have just one battle thrall pop and every other enslaved pops being chattel slavery, so, if you want a battle thrall army you need let your battle thralls grow pops.
This add depth to the game, battle thralls are less productive than normal slaves, so, you must choose, you want better armies or a more productive pop to minerals and food.
A similar mechanic can be introduced to sub-species and leaders interactions.

 

[Aldernut]

Different rights for different subspecies dont work with the current balance.
You would have exactly one pop with every leadership traits stacked and with full citizen rigths and all other pops with residence/caste/slavery rights.

My humble opinion here is, that balance shouldn't completely stand in the way of removing ludonarrative dissonance. Sometimes it can be fun, when certain aspects are weaker, and others stronger.

However, genetic ascension is already considered a fairly weak ascension path. Therein, the whole point is to modify your species for various tasks. That you effectively can't do it for leaders, even when the traits and lore are there, to me feels more a bug caused by oversight, than a feature.