Hive/Machine Worlds in 2.2 seem a bit...underwhelming

[Vilcoyote]

you forget that their supply chain is greatly reduce, we doesn't know how much minerals and energy (and activities for pops in a less extend) are consume to get consumer goods and services (still gesalt empire have a "maintenance" value to keep high but it's less demanding than services).
On the other hand, you don't have commercial value (and so energy mainly) which can skyrocket has the time goes by.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

My focus isn't so much on the numbers but on the interestingness of these special worlds themselves, which have no real uniqueness like the other special planet types do (unique districts/buildings for Ecumonopolis/Habitats, size 50 worlds for ringworlds, etc...). Also, megastructures are built with alloys now, not minerals. To be fair, more minerals means more alloys, but a Matter Decompresser fixes that with its +1,000 mineral production.

I'd argue that being able to ignore district limitations is interesting and unique, in addition to being powerful. Again, we're talking about strip mining an entire planet, that's something unique in the otherwise district-limited paradigm. In fact, it's arguably more unique than trying to give them special districts that are distinct from an Ecumenopolis's special districts. Ecumenopleis already corner the market on advanced resource production, having machine/hive worlds fill the opposite niche makes them more unique than trying to fit them into also doing advanced resources/stacking up huge urban-ish populations, etc.

And yes, alloys will be a cruicial limiting factor, but based on the dev clash, it looks like a tall empire might well be running up against a raw mineral availability sooner than ability to convert those minerals into alloys. Especially as ringworld sections start coming on-line -- you'll have massively populated planets that can spin out endless amounts of alloys, but won't gain anything in terms of raw mineral production. A Matter Decompresser takes time away from building ringworlds in the first place, where I assume the hive/machine worlds won't.

 

[Twogs]

Exactly, but in this case, a ringworld is purposely designed to be a really big but otherwise normal planet, whereas a Hive/Machine world is supposed to be a planet so integrated with the gestalt consciousness that it could be considered a part of it. They are supposed to be alien, different, interesting...

Ring worlds aren't supposed to be unique in terms of districts. They're supposed to be massive which they are (50 districts per section).

You two make up your own definitions here.

Who said hive worlds should be anything but the thing they are now? Massive basic resource producers? That's not up to us to decide, but the game designer choice.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

I'd argue that being able to ignore district limitations is interesting and unique, in addition to being powerful. Again, we're talking about strip mining an entire planet, that's something unique in the otherwise district-limited paradigm. In fact, it's arguably more unique than trying to give them special districts that are distinct from an Ecumenopolis's special districts. Ecumenopleis already corner the market on advanced resource production, having machine/hive worlds fill the opposite niche makes them more unique than trying to fit them into also doing advanced resources/stacking up huge urban-ish populations, etc.

You two make up your own definitions here.

Who said hive worlds should be anything but the thing they are now? Massive basic resource producers? That's not up to us to decide, but the game designer choice.

You can do this while still being flavorful about it. Also, I never said they need to change how these worlds function, just that the execution is boring.

As an aside, has anyone learned anything about Gaia worlds yet? I can't find any information on them.

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

You two make up your own definitions here.

Who said hive worlds should be anything but the thing they are now? Massive basic resource producers? That's not up to us to decide, but the game designer choice.

Why even make it a terraform option then? Why not make it a decision like MoN adding districts. It's not like they're fundamentally different from normal worlds or each other for that matter to warrant each one having their own planet type.

I'd rather each of the world ascension perks do something unique and interesting that changes game play to a degree.

Gaia worlds give you access to rare resources.
Ecumanopolis give you access to 2nd tier resource districts.
Hive worlds give you access to even greater numbers? (districts for naval capacity maybe?)
Machine worlds give you access to machine related resources? (Robot build speed?, ship build speed in system?) it is basically a giant factory isn't it? Maybe even make it capable of building ships

The current iterations of these perks are cool but it shouldn't be under both Hive and Machine Worlds

 

[King of Zoot]

I guess hive and machine worlds could get special districts that are basically the same as normal ones except you can spam them.

 

[lwarmonger]

Given how moddable everything is now I think we will see some crazy species mods coming out fairly quickly for this version of stellaris.

And of those, I think the three types of empires that will probably get the most love will be mega corps variants, hives (biological only empires?) and the all mighty machine.

That and the brain slugs. Brain slugs for everyone!

 

[Keioel]

I don't understand why you lose the special stuff on the planet though. As a hive mind I'd like to have all of my planets be hive worlds

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

I'm with holding any disappointment until I not only get to play with the toy, but really learn how to use the toy.

Then if I end up agreeing with you about Hive/Machine worlds, I'll also be prepared to make suggestions for how to fix them.

 

[mephy]

Watching ASpec's Video on them they actually seem rather strong to me.

 

[EntropyAvatar]

The flavour text talks about the Hive World attacking non-hive entities that reach the surface. I wonder if some kind of ground-combat bonus would be appropriate? It seems like it would be a challenging environment for attacking forces.

 

[WhapXI]

Hive and Machine worlds are reasonably powerful because of how easy they make it to specialise every planet and also how cheap they are.

10k energy is a pittance in 2.2. Nothing will make me feel more like a spreading gestalt than infesting every world I conquer.

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

There are just so many possibilities to make Hive and Machine worlds unique

Hive World
4 Districts
Hive District: 12 housing, +1 Administrative cap
Soldier District: Provides jobs that turn food and minerals into solders (defense) and Naval Capacity
Digestive District: Provides jobs that produce food and energy
Nursery District: Provides jobs that turns food into +2% growth rate/# of planets you own

Machine World
4 districts
Builder District: provides 8 housing, +2% robot build speed (on planet)
Simulation District: provides jobs that turns Energy into Society research and Unity
Processing District: provides jobs that turns Minerals into Engineering research and Alloys
Reactor District: provides jobs that turn Rare Crystals into Physics Research and Energy

 

[EvilKnievel82]

I think they are fine. You even get more than the + 10 % to production actually because you can fully focus on just minerals on a hive world meaning the "mining world" modifier does not just mean + 5 % minerals but effectively another + 5 % production (same for food or energy). I would not want them to be just a flavour of an eucumenopolis and as it stands they are different enough for me.

 

[Twogs]

There are just so many possibilities to make Hive and Machine worlds unique

Hive World
4 Districts
Hive District: 12 housing, +1 Administrative cap
Soldier District: Provides jobs that turn food and minerals into solders (defense) and Naval Capacity
Digestive District: Provides jobs that produce food and energy
Nursery District: Provides jobs that turns food into +2% growth rate/# of planets you own

Machine World
4 districts
Builder District: provides 8 housing, +2% robot build speed (on planet)
Simulation District: provides jobs that turns Energy into Society research and Unity
Processing District: provides jobs that turns Minerals into Engineering research and Alloys
Reactor District: provides jobs that turn Rare Crystals into Physics Research and Energy

Districts cost admin cap too so the hive district (name is already taken btw) would be ... strange?
Soldiers give you naval cap, that would be double dipping
How would the digestive district defer from agri and energy districts? Just a fancy name?
And Hives get a building for increased pop growth

Similar for the machine ideas

 

[Vilcoyote]

Ecumenopolis is more expensive than just 20k minerals, first you need to build houses district (450/500 minerals) then pass to ecumenopolis, and then build the new district (800 minerals on the first league ecumenopole).

 

[Tavior]

Ecumenopolis is more expensive than just 20k minerals, first you need to build houses district (450/500 minerals) then pass to ecumenopolis, and then build the new district (800 minerals on the first league ecumenopole).

You can get 2 extra district per planet with MoH and one more extra from expansion finisher.

If you are really lucky to have a 25 size world marked for ecumenopolis project that meant 28 district total.

28 time 450 add to 28 time 800 is 35,000 mineral.


From what little I have seen so far from let's play in the past few days from streamer press release. Getting your hand on that much mineral is not difficult as it used to be in 2.1 and I am talking about general mining sources (mining outpost and mining districts on other planets and not counting loot chest which apparently has been fixed already for internal build).

 

[Sinister2202]

I had wished to see a special district for hive world as well. Perhaps spawning pool districts that'll drastically increase pop growth to the point they all emigrate outwards throughout the hive empire.

 

[Rios_]

The flavour text talks about the Hive World attacking non-hive entities that reach the surface. I wonder if some kind of ground-combat bonus would be appropriate? It seems like it would be a challenging environment for attacking forces.

That's likely fluff referring to the fact that non hive species can't survive on the planet, so if another empire happens to capture a hive world it's useless to them until they terraform it.

 

[Thinkamancer]

That's likely fluff referring to the fact that non hive species can't survive on the planet, so if another empire happens to capture a hive world it's useless to them until they terraform it.

I think that's exactly it. To reference Star Trek, whenever an away team beams aboard a Borg cube, the panels don't start sprouting assimilation tubules, but you can't comfortably live there either. Flavor text would be nice, but the visuals alone make it "special" enough, IMHO