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Smartguy725

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A while back, I started an 'ambitious' project to record province culture/language and religion history on a spreadsheet for the SWMH provinces. I have a word document that accompanies it, detailing conditions where cultures transition, melt or break up into others, as well as colors for the religions and cultures in the spreadsheet. When CK3 was nearing release, I put the project on hold and started porting the histories over to EU4 provinces (specifically the Beyond Typus map). Now that CK3's been out for a little while, I thought I'd post my project on the forums for more input on this project of mine

I initially started it to help in developing culture mods for CK2 and EU4, but I thought I'd open it up for input on histories, colors, and just have it as a 'tool' of some kind

 
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elvain

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Great effort!

May I have a question, though? There's this entry:
  • 1620.11.8 (Defeat of the Bohemian Revolt): Transition to Czech
Český (Bohemian) provinces will become Čeština (Czech)
What it does is basically that you replace Český, which is an adjective for general meaning Czech (person, culture, language), by a noun Čeština which means Czech language.
Is the latter meant to represent a culture becomming a language? What's the reasoning behind it? As a Czech myself I don't understand.
 
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Smartguy725

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Great effort!

May I have a question, though? There's this entry:

What it does is basically that you replace Český, which is an adjective for general meaning Czech (person, culture, language), by a noun Čeština which means Czech language.
Is the latter meant to represent a culture becomming a language? What's the reasoning behind it? As a Czech myself I don't understand.
I mainly did this to represent the decline Czech saw until the Czech national revival

How do you recommend Czech be handled?
 
Layout examples

Smartguy725

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As I am working on the spreadsheet, I thought I'd post screenshots of how the history is formatted
1601059925023.png


Here is the same region in the SWMH version, since baraonies being the lowest-level province is new to CK3
1601060026770.png


And in EU4/BT/CI
1601060069381.png


Baronies being the lowest level is a little weird, since I'm used to the three levels of empire, kingdom, and duchy having county-level capitals, and the IDs for provinces being tied to counties and not baronies. Since it's still very early in the CK3 version, any input on the layout there?
 
e_britannia cultures

Smartguy725

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And because Britannia is the first de jure empire in the landed titles file, here are the cultures in the region (with CK3 colors and what I've chosen for them for the time being)
1601082359412.png

1601082382321.png


Thoughts/criticisms on them are appreciated
 

elvain

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I mainly did this to represent the decline Czech saw until the Czech national revival

How do you recommend Czech be handled?
oh, ooops. That's quite unfortunate, tbh. I mean yes, the decline and "The darkness" of Czech nation in the post 1620 period is a pivotal part of modern Czech revivalist mythology (and through that one of cornerstones of what defines most modern Czechs). But as much as it is important and still very popular narative (strenghtened by the Communist propagandist education which tried to increase the Slavic-German antagonism based on imagery of Czechs being suppressed and almost eliminated by Germans in the 17th and 18th centuries), as much it is untrue.
The Czech language declined in the protestant literary tradition... but both the Wiki article, the revivalists of the 17th/18th centuries completely omitted the fact that there was also Czech catholic tradition, with great linguistic works of jesuite Bohuslav Balbín and school around him.
This didn't fit to the narrative of the revivalists, so they pretended him and his followers not to exist, as well as they did with the 2 centuries of the natural evolution of the language (although it was strongly influences by German, which they didn't like) and they simply re-created late 16th century Czech based on the Bible of Kralice (and since then there is big split between spoken and written/literary Czech, both being almost 2 different languages).

What would I suggest?
I think Czech should simply stay Czech. I certainly wouldn't replace a culture named "Czech" by a culture named "Czech language". It makes no sense and it is also wrong/inconsistent in the sense how you treat the cultures in general. The post 1620 Czech was just a natural continuation of the era before, so just make it stay Český/Czech. If there was anything unnatural with the language/culture, it was the break of continuity and a shift to 200-old literary language in the early 19th century... so if anything, I would add a breaking point to cca 1810-1820 where a Neo-Czech (Novočeský) would be created by revivalists...(based on works of 2 main revivalists Josef Dobrovský and Josef Jungmann) or you can call it Mladočeský (Young Czech), after a political movement of the late 19th century which seeked more autonomy and/or independence from Austria-Hungary.
 
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but I should also admit, that I might be influenced by anti-revivalist shool which arose slightly after the Velvet revolution when people could finally freely oppose the communist pan-Slavic anti-German narrative of Bohemian/Czech history... and hence I might not be completely objective... and my understanding certainly isn't common or even majority of Czechs - vast majority of people educated during the communist era, and also large number of post-communist elementary school teachers (=> their students) still buy the revivalist interpretation of Czech/Bohemian history and take it as a dogma.

I believe that other Czechs like @Graf Radetzky @Wenceslaus II. @Rhipeen and others might give you a suggestion better ballanced with the prevailing understanding of Czech national history.
 
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Rhipeen

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Others certainly wrote practically everything so just let me write my own bit. The thing also is, the so called decline while almost definitely present in a way, czech was spoken by multiple million people (although with a lot of germanisms), so even if "revival" did not happen, I think it would be highly probable that we would still have more speakers of czech today than there is welsh speakers (1m), although it might be in a similiar form to english which is considered germanic, but the majority of its vocabulary is latin in origin. I believe it wouldnt come to such extreme but a lot of words would certainly be german. (side note, even sorbs and their sorbian languages are still a thing despite things like ww2 happening and them being in the practical heart of the german reich)
 
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I'm going to start filling in culture/religion histories for e_britannia, are there any cultures or religions that are missing that should be implemented, or any whose inclusion doesn't make sense?

I plan on starting out at 867 as the earliest date for the history, unless there are any objections
 

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I have a feeling that Frisian split is a bit overboard. Too minuscule cultures can cause chaos once the game is unpaused.
 
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I have a feeling that Frisian split is a bit overboard. Too minuscule cultures can cause chaos once the game is unpaused.
The Frisian split I have occurring outside of the CK timespan, actually. As the spreadsheet project also covers EU4, that's when Frisian splits into its regional dialects, but I think even then it's a bit much. But yeah, don't worry, Frisian will be the only Frisian
 
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e_germany and e_hre cultures

Smartguy725

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and while I work on filling in the e_britannia history, I'll post the cultures that exist in e_germany and e_hre. The list is a little long for the Central Germanic cultures, primarily because of German "colonisation" in CI/EU4's timeframe
1601770757724.png

1601770793559.png

1601770840566.png

1601770857347.png


And here are the West Slavic cultures, for the proximity and existence in the general vecinity
1601770911509.png


Again, always open to criticism and suggestions regarding name, color, etc
 

Viridianus

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Epiroten (Eporite) - probably should say Epirote and feels wrong either way (why are Epirotes suddenly Germanic of all things?). The latter can also be said of Balten.
Zapadoslovanske feels too Russian for me, a Russian :D Maybe zaxod- could be a better choice. Also, Czekoslovak culture doesn't seem to make much sense, the XX century country was never fully culturally united.
 
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Epiroten (Eporite) - probably should say Epirote and feels wrong either way (why are Epirotes suddenly Germanic of all things?). The latter can also be said of Balten.
Zapadoslovanske feels too Russian for me, a Russian :D Maybe zaxod- could be a better choice. Also, Czekoslovak culture doesn't seem to make much sense, the XX century country was never fully culturally united.
I mean, west slav in czech is "Západoslovan/Západní Slovan" and if you want to say something is west slavic in czech it's "Západoslovanské" so ""too russian" is kinda not valid XD that aside I agree that Czechoslovak was never really a thing
 
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Epiroten (Eporite) - probably should say Epirote and feels wrong either way (why are Epirotes suddenly Germanic of all things?). The latter can also be said of Balten.
Zapadoslovanske feels too Russian for me, a Russian :D Maybe zaxod- could be a better choice. Also, Czekoslovak culture doesn't seem to make much sense, the XX century country was never fully culturally united.
Those Germanic-group cultures are basically just German in those regions- Epiroten is German in Greece/Epirus, Balten is German in the Baltics.
Czechoslovak, like those regional cultures, is a product of the EU4 "version" of those project, Cultural Influence. I don't remember the conditions that they show up under, they'll be left out of the history files

I mean, west slav in czech is "Západoslovan/Západní Slovan" and if you want to say something is west slavic in czech it's "Západoslovanské" so ""too russian" is kinda not valid XD that aside I agree that Czechoslovak was never really a thing
so what "full" name would you recommend for the West Slavic group?