Historical TOE and variants compilation

[rutger9]

Hello, so we are all waiting for HoI IV, and so I was thinking that as I am planning on doing at least one or two fully historical games as germany I might aswell start compiling information in a thread as theres allot of people that like historical accuracy too.
The plan is to compile the accurate TOE of divisions for multiple years and written up in HoI division designer terms including the name that should be given to the template, a description of variants and what was improved.
I will start with germany but if anyone else has interest in helping with the other nation or with germany that would be greatly appreciated.
Now with further ado
(BTW after receiving some feedback on the way ive interpreted the infantry divisions I'll continue with the rest.)
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German infantry division 1939 IRL valid till roughly 1944

Spoiler

Infanterie-Division
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany...tion-and-equipment/1939-infantry-division.png

3 regiments, each has 3 infantry battalions
1 regiment with 1 artillery battalion (atm they got 36 per battalion) and 1 anti tank battalion (if they got the same amount of guns to represent the anti tank companies in each regiment)
Support companies
Signal company, Recon company, Engineer company, and maybe an additional anti tank and artillery company(as the numbers are slightly over 36 but not quite 72)?

Germany infantry division 1944 onward, ingame this would be chosen when manpower would become particularly stretched

Spoiler

Infanterie-Division
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany...tion-and-equipment/1944-infantry-division.png

2 regiments each has 2 infantry battalions
1 regiment with 1 artillery battalion and 1 anti tank battalion
Support companies
Signal company, Engineer company.

 

[Sun_Killer]

I think the anti tank numbers in you first pic are off a bit. They list 75x 75mm guns but no 37mm guns. But in the different sub units there are 54x 75mm and 36x 37mm guns. Never mind that the german pak40 75mm was only introduced in 1941 and available in larger numbers by end of 1941. Even the pak 38 50mm was only introduced in 1940. So all your divisons should only have the pak36 37mm.

 

[vector1]

It's a nice effort but I have this feeling that truly historical builds need to be abstracted into HOI4 political leaders/company systems. This is since all weapons are generic and you can't exactly say weapons 2 for GER has extra LMGs/HMGs in infantry units compared to weapons 2 of FRA/ENG, much less compare the relative performance of antitank weapons since the names are entirely for flavor instead of being based on historical values. The leader system should give that abstracted boost to stats of each weapons system for each country.

 

[rutger9]

I think the anti tank numbers in you first pic are off a bit. They list 75x 75mm guns but no 37mm guns. But in the different sub units there are 54x 75mm and 36x 37mm guns. Never mind that the german pak40 75mm was only introduced in 1941 and available in larger numbers by end of 1941. Even the pak 38 50mm was only introduced in 1940. So all your divisons should only have the pak36 37mm.

After checking multiple sources after you made this comment it appears that although yes my current source is faulty in reporting its equipment, probably taking the TOE from a german infantry division from barbarossa or blau. I am also finding that the original division structure probably hand't changed in that period of time, in addition I Don't think the actual equipment should be paid attention to in the division designer section aside from roughly what it is, so it matters that theres say 36 AT guns but not that those 36AT guns are 37mm paks or 75mm paks.
Mainly because this section is more strictly in reference to the actual battalions one should add to get numerical and optimally structural parity with a RL german infantry division, in which case the 36 guns + AT companies in infantry regiments still stands, they would in the 36' example just be bringing 37mm guns to the fray.

It's a nice effort but I have this feeling that truly historical builds need to be abstracted into HOI4 political leaders/company systems. This is since all weapons are generic and you can't exactly say weapons 2 for GER has extra LMGs/HMGs in infantry units compared to weapons 2 of FRA/ENG, much less compare the relative performance of antitank weapons since the names are entirely for flavor instead of being based on historical values. The leader system should give that abstracted boost to stats of each weapons system for each country.

I think representing the actual equipment would come with as you said most assuredly using the leaders company system, for example optimally for the panzer III I would have:
Panzer III, designed by daimler-benz.
A-D can be abstracted into the initial design IMO as they were prototypes.
Then design E would have an increase in speed
Then design F would have increased reliability to represent it becoming a mass production variant
Then with design G you would improve the armor
Design H would have additional armor and more attack to represent the 5cm gun
Etcetc

I am fully aware it is most likely far from a perfect system, and with all the variants germany had it might not even be possible in the base game, but I don't think that it is impossible to pull off, even though yes some unfortunate abstractions will have to be made

BTW I'll be adding a TOE for panzer divisions and leichte divisions today, the same request will be made as i myself can ofcourse not perfectly interpret everything into a system we haven't even used yet.