I would like to build historically accurate German Tanks. I know someone had a chart on here about it but I can't find it. Anyone help?
Historical Tank chart?
- Thread starter goodcigar
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I don't think this is the right post, but I did find this:
forum.paradoxplaza.com
I can't really find one that's specifically on tank designs, that one seemed to focus mostly on gun localizations. A few comments did break down certain tanks, though.
German Tank Designs
Going to avoid the current state of SP weapons in my next playthrough as "Big Grey" and want to keep my life simple. I can live with the basic Panzer 4 template, yet when it's time to get the big cats designed what kind of builds would some of...
I can't really find one that's specifically on tank designs, that one seemed to focus mostly on gun localizations. A few comments did break down certain tanks, though.
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Hi, we can do this starting from the gun, as posted above:
Panzer I: HMG
Panzer II: Autocannon I/II (1940 version)
Panzer III: Small Cannon I (first version), Small Cannon II (mid version), Basic HVG (mid/late version), Improved HVG (very late version), Close support Gun (Panzer III N version)
Panzer IV: Close support Gun (first version), Medium Cannon (mid version), Improved Medium Cannon (late version)
Panzer V: Improved Medium Cannon
Panzer VI Tiger I: Basic Heavy Cannon
Panzer VI Tiger II: Improved Heavy Cannon
For the engine, all German tanks are on Gasoline, the values:
Panzer I: 1/2
Panzer II: 3
Panzer III: 5/6
Panzer IV: 6/7
Panzer V: 10 (D version) 12/13 (following version)
Panzer VI Tiger I: 13/14
Panzer VI Tiger II: 12/13
For the armor:
Panzer I: Riveted, 1 (8/9 Panzer I "Tiger" version)
Panzer II: Riveted, 2/3
Panzer III: Riveted (only the first version), 4, Welded, from 4 to 7 (mid to late version)
Panzer IV: Welded, from 6 to 9 (first to late version)
Panzer V: Welded, 9/10, Sloped Armour
Panzer VI Tiger I: Welded,11/12
Panzer VI Tiger II: Welded, 16/18, Sloped Armour
For the turret:
Panzer I: L One Man Turret
Panzer II: L Two
Panzer III: M Three
Panzer IV: M Three
Panzer V: M Three
Panzer VI Tiger I: Heavy Three
Panzer VI Tiger II: Heavy Three
For The suspension:
Panzer I: Bogie
Panzer II: Bogie, Christie for late version
Panzer III: Bogie (first/mid version), Torsion Bar
Panzer IV: Bogie (P.S.: I suppose that the late version has Interwheeled, but I cannot find any data on this)
Panzer V: Interwheeled
Panzer VI Tiger I: Interwheeled
Panzer VI Tiger II: Interwheeled
For the bonus: (P.S.:for all radio is included, for sloped armor I reported it in armor list)
Panzer I: Machine Gun, Extra Ammo
Panzer II: Machine Gun
Panzer III: Machine Gun, Smoke (mid version), Armour Skirts and Squeeze Bore (late version)
Panzer IV: Machine Gun, Smoke, Armour Skirts (late version)
Panzer V: Extra Ammo/Squeeze Bore, Armour Skirts/Smoke, Stabilizer (not for it, but to simulate the night infrared scope of the late version (44/45))
Panzer VI Tiger I: Machine Gun, Extra Ammo, Smoke
Panzer VI Tiger II: Machine Gun, Extra Ammo
Note: for the bonus I don't have sufficient data to describe them perfectly, so my suggestion can be changed freely.
For now it's over, we can do a more exhaustive address to including all the tracked in these days. I go to bed, I'm tired, the Christmas is weary.
Panzer I: HMG
Panzer II: Autocannon I/II (1940 version)
Panzer III: Small Cannon I (first version), Small Cannon II (mid version), Basic HVG (mid/late version), Improved HVG (very late version), Close support Gun (Panzer III N version)
Panzer IV: Close support Gun (first version), Medium Cannon (mid version), Improved Medium Cannon (late version)
Panzer V: Improved Medium Cannon
Panzer VI Tiger I: Basic Heavy Cannon
Panzer VI Tiger II: Improved Heavy Cannon
For the engine, all German tanks are on Gasoline, the values:
Panzer I: 1/2
Panzer II: 3
Panzer III: 5/6
Panzer IV: 6/7
Panzer V: 10 (D version) 12/13 (following version)
Panzer VI Tiger I: 13/14
Panzer VI Tiger II: 12/13
For the armor:
Panzer I: Riveted, 1 (8/9 Panzer I "Tiger" version)
Panzer II: Riveted, 2/3
Panzer III: Riveted (only the first version), 4, Welded, from 4 to 7 (mid to late version)
Panzer IV: Welded, from 6 to 9 (first to late version)
Panzer V: Welded, 9/10, Sloped Armour
Panzer VI Tiger I: Welded,11/12
Panzer VI Tiger II: Welded, 16/18, Sloped Armour
For the turret:
Panzer I: L One Man Turret
Panzer II: L Two
Panzer III: M Three
Panzer IV: M Three
Panzer V: M Three
Panzer VI Tiger I: Heavy Three
Panzer VI Tiger II: Heavy Three
For The suspension:
Panzer I: Bogie
Panzer II: Bogie, Christie for late version
Panzer III: Bogie (first/mid version), Torsion Bar
Panzer IV: Bogie (P.S.: I suppose that the late version has Interwheeled, but I cannot find any data on this)
Panzer V: Interwheeled
Panzer VI Tiger I: Interwheeled
Panzer VI Tiger II: Interwheeled
For the bonus: (P.S.:for all radio is included, for sloped armor I reported it in armor list)
Panzer I: Machine Gun, Extra Ammo
Panzer II: Machine Gun
Panzer III: Machine Gun, Smoke (mid version), Armour Skirts and Squeeze Bore (late version)
Panzer IV: Machine Gun, Smoke, Armour Skirts (late version)
Panzer V: Extra Ammo/Squeeze Bore, Armour Skirts/Smoke, Stabilizer (not for it, but to simulate the night infrared scope of the late version (44/45))
Panzer VI Tiger I: Machine Gun, Extra Ammo, Smoke
Panzer VI Tiger II: Machine Gun, Extra Ammo
Note: for the bonus I don't have sufficient data to describe them perfectly, so my suggestion can be changed freely.
For now it's over, we can do a more exhaustive address to including all the tracked in these days. I go to bed, I'm tired, the Christmas is weary.
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I'm doing something like this to insert these data in a future mod (that will do something else, because I don't have the necessary skills). But it will take a lot of time, so I will do it step by step.
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Hello Everyone.
I post an update of the historical tank sheet: in this paper there are tracked from:
Germany
Italy
UK
URSS
Let me know what you think.
P.S.: A question for an english technical slang word: the "List which provides decoding information" is, in English, "Key list"? Thanks in advance to who will answer me
I post an update of the historical tank sheet: in this paper there are tracked from:
Germany
Italy
UK
URSS
Let me know what you think.
P.S.: A question for an english technical slang word: the "List which provides decoding information" is, in English, "Key list"? Thanks in advance to who will answer me
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Nice work, but I’d deviate from Paradox’s odd naming of Italian models.
I’d like to see more “reality” in the naming of Italian models. The M.13 and M.14 were both Basic Medium. Even the Sahariano would be a tricked out Basic Medium. The P.26 would be an Improved Medium, and the wood mock-up P.30/43 could be an Advanced Medium, sure. Everything Heavy would have to be hypothetical like Il Duce. Then the Italian models would be at least crudely equivalent with the German, Soviet and American models.
Also, Key List is okay but more appropriately called a Glossary of Abreviations.
I’d like to see more “reality” in the naming of Italian models. The M.13 and M.14 were both Basic Medium. Even the Sahariano would be a tricked out Basic Medium. The P.26 would be an Improved Medium, and the wood mock-up P.30/43 could be an Advanced Medium, sure. Everything Heavy would have to be hypothetical like Il Duce. Then the Italian models would be at least crudely equivalent with the German, Soviet and American models.
Also, Key List is okay but more appropriately called a Glossary of Abreviations.
First of all, thanks for the specification on Glossary.
I divide the Italian tanks not according to Paradox names, but according to Italian doctrine. The latter distinguished the tanks according to role:
(L)ight tanks=Fast tanks
(M)edium tanks=Assault tanks
(P)Heavy tanks=Breakthrough tanks
Subsequently the weight tasked a role only because of Italian standardization of 1938 (e.g. the CV33s and CV35s that became L3/33 and L3/35). So, for Italy, (mine) distinction starts from here. Afterward:
The P26/40 was the rough copy of the T-34? Yes, but they have two different roles;
The extreeeeeeemely hypotetical P45 PANTERA (Italian for Panther) was the rough copy of the Panzer V? Yes, but they have two different roles.
For the Italian the "P" tanks were the equivalent of the Tiger I (in term of doctrine), so they are heavy tanks in-game. Obviously they won't be effective in-game as Allied or German equivalent, but that's not the point of the tank designer?
Moreover, generally, I assigned the chassis according to year: M13/40 was born in 1939 and produced in 1940. M11/39 was born in 1932 as M8 (observe that the for the weight should be L8, but its role was M tank), developed in 1937 as M10, and finally produced as M11 in 1938. Then, the M13 was an improvement of M11 chassis, and so Basic->Improved. Same for M15/42 (that maintain M13 hull and turret, but with a redesigned chassis). The M16/43, the so-called "Carro Celere Sahariano", had a totally new designed chassis (in large part a Crusader copy) respect to the previous "M". Finally, il Duce is a dream about an impossible tank, of which Italy had, perhaps, only the gun (the 105/40, a lengthened version of the 105/25). It is only a game feature, nothing else.
I divide the Italian tanks not according to Paradox names, but according to Italian doctrine. The latter distinguished the tanks according to role:
(L)ight tanks=Fast tanks
(M)edium tanks=Assault tanks
(P)Heavy tanks=Breakthrough tanks
Subsequently the weight tasked a role only because of Italian standardization of 1938 (e.g. the CV33s and CV35s that became L3/33 and L3/35). So, for Italy, (mine) distinction starts from here. Afterward:
The P26/40 was the rough copy of the T-34? Yes, but they have two different roles;
The extreeeeeeemely hypotetical P45 PANTERA (Italian for Panther) was the rough copy of the Panzer V? Yes, but they have two different roles.
For the Italian the "P" tanks were the equivalent of the Tiger I (in term of doctrine), so they are heavy tanks in-game. Obviously they won't be effective in-game as Allied or German equivalent, but that's not the point of the tank designer?
Moreover, generally, I assigned the chassis according to year: M13/40 was born in 1939 and produced in 1940. M11/39 was born in 1932 as M8 (observe that the for the weight should be L8, but its role was M tank), developed in 1937 as M10, and finally produced as M11 in 1938. Then, the M13 was an improvement of M11 chassis, and so Basic->Improved. Same for M15/42 (that maintain M13 hull and turret, but with a redesigned chassis). The M16/43, the so-called "Carro Celere Sahariano", had a totally new designed chassis (in large part a Crusader copy) respect to the previous "M". Finally, il Duce is a dream about an impossible tank, of which Italy had, perhaps, only the gun (the 105/40, a lengthened version of the 105/25). It is only a game feature, nothing else.
Hi, finally my fellow and I we have prepared a mod for historical tanks. For now there are Germany, URSS and France, check it out and give us an opinion.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2763613423
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2763613423
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But what do you mean by "first/mid/late version"? And what's the difference between a renamed Panzer from the game and (example) a Panzer III N?
Just look up the versions on wikipedia. You'll get a decent picture what version is late, mid, and early. They will also tell you if the Panzer IV have the close support or another gun. Panzer III N is a specific Panzer III with the close support gun.
The difference between game is that Panzer III N was a real tank, the game versions is not. They just add random letters based upon how much you have tweaked it.
To confuse you more, you also get some a, b, c versions that are different from A, B, C. F1 and F2 tank etc. Just look up a list of the variants if you want to make it historical. Or just make them into three (or four?) versions, and make a version for early, mid, late (and very late I suppose). You might also cross refference it with a list, make a rough historical version for each build
"first/mid/late version" refers to the different version of Historical Panzer III (and IV). They were improving during war, so they change a lot: Panzer IV A is very different respect to Panzer IV H. Consider that my comment is dated 26 December, so it was only a quickly information list. In our mod (link above in an other comment) we have 6 versions for Panzer III and 6 versions for Panzer IV, and 69 tanks and conversions (tank destroyer, assault gun, etc.) only for Germany.