• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

21oliver

Field Marshal
17 Badges
Jun 8, 2010
9.896
1.088
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
I have begun in recent months using HI as the Soviets when i never did before (minus being at war). Please explain the differences as to how threat/neutrality etc... effect its use. I understand the immediate increase in CG that need to be weighed, but not how other factors effect its use. Also i was under the impression that when building straight buildings (any non units) it was worth it. In addition the abusing back/forth i believe i was told should be done when units are about to finish (i think 20% left they said) but not sure if i tend to always get that right at the right time.
 

KyrionMyrthar

Major
74 Badges
Apr 11, 2011
772
23
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
I didn't get to it last night. I went to Rifftrax Live instead and watched Anaconda. :)

As for my conclusion, I will say this: the Heavy Industry Emphasis upgrade is of dubious value. Unless you abuse it by going back and forth, it eats up a ton of IC (around a 70 IC increase in consumer good demand after Danzig or War when neutrality is zero) for what amounts to a 25% reduction in IC costs. You'd need 300 effective IC in production to make up the loss. So, unless I'm bad at math, it's a net loss most of the time even when threat is absurdly high.

So, never go to Heavy Industry, even when you're at war?
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.589
19.899
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
So, never go to Heavy Industry, even when you're at war?

No. Once you go to war, the required consumer goods demand drops substantially.

In fact, every nation automatically impoverishes their people as much as possible to support the war effort the moment war is declared.

So, if I were going to abuse the game, I would DOW Finland in 1937, and keep the war going until 1941. I can't get best laws across the board (Finnish IC is too low), but I could drop by consumer goods demand to such a low level that HI becomes very efficient.

I've done it before, and it's a big fat exploit.

Also, HI increases supply throughput, although I don't care about that for this particular exercise.
 

Opanashc

Field Marshal
62 Badges
Jul 4, 2010
4.734
2.778
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
Threat and neutrality do not affect HI.
What they do affect is CG requirements. The lower the effective neutrality, the less CG is required per regular/mobilized brigade in peacetime.
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.589
19.899
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
The third test is over. It is a qualified success. I think jju_57 will agree with me that it technically counts as success, but that dark secrets lurk underneath the OOB, making it clear that the Soviet Union is nerfed quietly in such a way that you really need to fire Great Patriotic War and associated events/decisions in order to call upon the full power of the Soviet Union in historical terms. Whether this is good or bad is up to debate, but let's go over the numbers.

First, the screenshots:











Not shown: I built a few province AA to generate practicals. They weren't on the list, and they wouldn't show up in these screenshots.

The good news:

The last item I needed to build was the final STR, and it completed basically two weeks before the final date. It was close, but I got there.

All divisions are more or less at their best staffing under the current draft laws (Two Year Draft in 1941). I've built no supply the entire time, as I've been buying up supply. I feel this is historical and okay in the context of the game, although the deficit you see on the supply stockpile represents a problem that cannot be fixed via trade too much longer. Since the war is about start, I don't consider that a problem either.

Officer ratio is where it needs to be; that being said, I want to emphasize that the inefficiency of this particular build scheme in HOI3 terms really hurts the Soviets in leadership. That's a lot of INF brigades chewing up officers and not IC, whereas if I had built something closer to what I normally build, there would be fewer overall brigades (fewer officers), but they would be more IC intensive.

Manpower was a close shave, but I have enough manpower to cover mobilization, plus 170 extra. This isn't exactly the best set up, but you can't say that the divisions I built are phantom formations. They can get up to full strength upon starting the war.

The Winter War lasted from November 1st to March 3rd. I went to HI during the conflict, and that did help a bunch. I almost spent too much time on the Winter War, but that's because a blizzard slowed my units down to a crawl in February, making it almost impossible to win in time.

I did clean up the Soviet OOB. It's easy to forget that HQs count as active duty brigades, costing officers AND eating up consumer goods demand. I disbanded about two dozen useless HQs in 1936, netting me 3 fewer IC on the consumer demand slider. Not much, but every little bit helps. It also cut supply costs down a tad.

In order to achieve the highest rate of optimization, I did something I normally don't do during a build: I only built brigades, not whole divisions. I queued up brigades in batches that I felt would be both easy to manage (in terms of tracking numbers built) and that would maximize practicals. I concentrated on armor first under Volunteer Army, alongside CAV and AC for mobile practicals. The infantry came later in large batches. Aircraft were cooked on practicals early, but only after the switch to Two Year Draft did I start building significant aircraft. I completed the ships already in the queue to generate practicals, but other ships were only begun in earnest in 1939.

I only built around 40 base IC.

I stole several techs from the Allies, but nothing interesting for this particular build (too bad I wasn't asked to build CVs, because I stole both CAG and CV from the French).

Industrial techs stayed at the top of queue until I hit 1940 industrial techs (which put me ahead of time anyway). The Soviets are so far behind in these two categories that getting them up to speed is an absolute must. The construction practicals from the IC I built made it possible to make Soviet industry much more efficient overall.

A key consideration on the level of success is when Germany enacts certain decisions. The sooner Germany does Anschluss and Danzig or War, the sooner Soviet IC increases efficiency. Anschluss puts the Soviets at low enough neutrality to run War Economy, and Danzig or War takes neutrality to zero, killing most consumer good demand.

I maintained CGO the entire time, except during the Winter War.

Why I failed the first two times:

There are a few complicated reasons that caused initial failure. First, the GAR/MP brigades are active duty, and this increase consumer good demand. The first time around, I built them early, causing me to lose overall IC for literally no reason. Second, the most expensive army units need to be produced under the lowest law allowed. In earlier tests, I built all kinds of things under Volunteer Army that took away build slots from ARM and LARM. Getting them done earlier cut their cost substantially. Third, I failed in using HI. It was a mistake to implement it in the ways I did in the first two attempts. The increase in consumer good demand wasn't justified by the reduced build costs.

Another thing that cropped up in both failures was the problem of excessive IC. Trying to put 60 base IC into action was too much. I still had a couple of stray IC in the build queue in 1939, which is completely unacceptable for trying to get a 1941 build in place. Not only does it not pay itself off in time, it literally takes production away from units that need to be built right now under Volunteer Army.

The Dark Side of the Soviet Build Plan:

Dark secrets lurk in the numbers.

First of all, it was such a close shave that literally a single bad event that steals IC from me would have resulted in failure (I got one). The same goes for positive IC events; I got one or two nationalization events with IC boosts. Without them, it wouldn't have happened.

Another consideration is technology. It took 19 months under Two Year Draft to get the Red Army to 85% officer ratio. This is simply atrocious, but it illustrates the hard choices the Soviets have to make. If you go with Three Year Draft, your units are more expensive and you can't meet the build. But if you did that, more leadership would be available for tech and officers, netting a higher officer ratio (which in HOI3 is what is really important). And on that note, my technology was pretty bad. You see a lot of upgrade costs, but nothing I have is higher than 1940, and some categories didn't even get that high. This build scheme precludes any kind of serious technological parity with anyone else.

The elephant in the room is manpower. I had enough, but we would all agree that 170 spare manpower on June 22nd of 1941 doesn't really model Soviet resources. Now, the Soviets can count on manpower via event, but anyone could reasonably claim that the Soviets don't have quite enough manpower to reach historical builds OR that HOI3's mechanics are heavily biased against historical builds.

The other elephant in the room is the gross inefficiency of the Soviet build. It's an insane waste of resources to build all that ARM and pair it with ARM and LARM. Then there's the pointless MOT divisions. The build is so inefficient that I'm not sure if translating the regiments to brigades makes sense. HOI3 really doesn't have the granularity to do justice to OOBs in general. This means that there is a huge disparity between being able to build a historical OOB and being powerful enough in game terms. I can literally build a Red Army that could trounce the historical Soviet OOB with no problems, and still not employ that many ARM brigades. This means that a country could hypothetically have enough resources to build a good army, but not its historical army, because the historical OOB is wasteful and stupid.

A final consideration is tech. The lack of optimization in the OOB translates into odd tech choices. It's very hard to optimize the Soviet techs in question when the OOB is such a mess, especially with the ships.


Did I leave anything out? Questions? Comments? Complaints?
 

misterbean

Fumbling My Way through History
90 Badges
Oct 18, 2009
7.899
759
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Iron Cross
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • For the Motherland
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
Congrats. Another challenge met and conquered. I love how the game simply refuses to give you the total number of brigades. :p

One can clearly see, considering your comments on tech, your MP and officer ratio, how they Red Army was decimated the way it was during the first year of Barbarossa.

Still the master (pun intended) of the secret and the impossible.
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.589
19.899
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
Thanks.

Actually, I forgot part of my discussion of laws.

The Soviets are forced to make tough trade offs. I could have easily had more manpower, but that would have meant switching to Three Year Draft in 1937 when the purge is enacted. There's not enough IC to do that, however. Also, switching to Three Year Draft earlier would have made it much easier to get the officers I needed.
 

sebas379

Marshal of the Soviet Union
46 Badges
Jul 9, 2012
3.854
338
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
Very interesting to follow this, good job meeting the build target. And interesting to see the tradeoffs, which actually sounds pretty historical to me. A huge army, but not enough officers to lead it and/or outdated equipment makes perfect sense.

And then the wehrmacht came by and wiped all your hard work off the map in a few months, hahaha
 
Last edited:

jju_57

Banned
47 Badges
Oct 13, 2003
13.775
2.006
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
I tip my hat and salute your fine effort. I think we can all agree that in HOI3 it is pretty hard to meet historical builds and when you do it takes an expert to actually pull it off. Not to mention that even when you can make a wonderful achievement such as this there remains some major issues such as replacement MP in this case. There is no way the soviets could lose 50% of their starting forces and replace it by the end of 1941 as there just isn't enough MP.

But the task is won and you have done a wonderful job.
 

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.589
19.899
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
I tip my hat and salute your fine effort. I think we can all agree that in HOI3 it is pretty hard to meet historical builds and when you do it takes an expert to actually pull it off. Not to mention that even when you can make a wonderful achievement such as this there remains some major issues such as replacement MP in this case. There is no way the soviets could lose 50% of their starting forces and replace it by the end of 1941 as there just isn't enough MP.

But the task is won and you have done a wonderful job.

Would you agree with me that Paradox "locked up" a significant amount of Soviet resources in decisions and events to balance them out?

I mean, between events that move IC to Siberia, and events/decisions that grant manpower, it seems to me that part of how the Soviets were balanced included the decision to put gobs of manpower in the Great Patriotic War chain.
 

jju_57

Banned
47 Badges
Oct 13, 2003
13.775
2.006
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
SM, yes I do agree. IIRC GPW in vanilla TFH grants 3500 MP which is a lot for HOI3. That said I think you would agree that once you destroy the border SU forces and GPW fires it is rare for those units to ever get built in time and moved to the front in time before Germany defeats the SU. But that is a whole different argument that is not part of your good work here.