Historical industrial production in 1939

[Damocles]

The recent thread about Turkey's IC actually piqued my interest enough to open up a wwii atlas book of mine. One of the pretty graphs they had, dealt with industrial production throughout the 20s-30s up till 39. I can't remember the exact figures, but this is roughly where it stood...

At 39, it went,

U.S.S.R with about 380ish (I think millions of dollars worth of industrial production but can't be buggered to go look it up again. Its about comparison anyways)

Japan with around 210 !!!!!!!

Germany and G.B with numbers between 160-190

Italy, France and the U.S were all in the low 100s in 39.

Quite interesting.

EDIT: These numbers are wrong, since a stupid graph bar thats just listed in 100s is a bit difficult in hazy hindsight to recall exactly. Better comparison below...

 

[unmerged(2833)]

And quite strange. Japan two times more than US?

 

[unmerged(35344)]

And quite strange. Japan two times more than US?

In 1939.... afterwards it skyrocketed.

 

[unmerged(25385)]

In 1939.... afterwards it skyrocketed.

If I recal after WW2 the US GDP was approximately 40% of the worlds GDP

 

[unmerged(11148)]

Remember the US was coming out of the depression and also was isolationist (which hurts the economy).

 

[unmerged(11148)]

Remember the US was coming out of the depression and also was isolationist (which hurts the economy).

 

[unmerged(3902)]

Remember the US was coming out of the depression and also was isolationist (which hurts the economy).

It was still the producer of 42% of the world's capital goods in 1939. I have no clue where the OP got his figures from but they're either innacurate or he's not looking at total industrial production, but rather some subset like "armaments production".

 

[Damocles]

It was still the producer of 42% of the world's capital goods in 1939. I have no clue where the OP got his figures from but they're either innacurate or he's not looking at total industrial production, but rather some subset like "armaments production".

Its from a chart in the "Historical Atlas of WWII"

The chart is labeled 1/Industrial Production 1929-1938

I was actually slightly wrong earlier. The approx numbers (since its a bar graph) are in 1938:

Germany with around 120ish
Japan with around 150ish
USSR with around 400ish
USA with around 110ish
France with around 80ish
UK with around 130ish


Interesting, everyone had severe dips in 1930 with the sole exception of the USSR who went from around 100 in 1929 to 400 in '38, making massive leaps every year.

France is the only country who was lower in '38 then they were in '29 or had any industrial loss after 32.

The US went from 100 in 29 to 50 by 32, which was the steepest drop of any, bar Germany. Then went back to around 110. Germany dropped from 100 in 29 to around 50, then rose back to 120 by 38

 

[unmerged(9829)]

Remember the US was coming out of the depression and also was isolationist (which hurts the economy).

Actually economically the US was the only economy that was NOT isolationist. While the other major economies were protectionalist the US was the last of the free traders.

 

[unmerged(9829)]

Its from a chart in the "Historical Atlas of WWII"

The chart is labeled 1/Industrial Production 1929-1938

I was actually slightly wrong earlier. The approx numbers (since its a bar graph) are in 1938:

Germany with around 120ish
Japan with around 150ish
USSR with around 400ish
USA with around 110ish
France with around 80ish
UK with around 130ish


Interesting, everyone had severe dips in 1930 with the sole exception of the USSR who went from around 100 in 1929 to 400 in '38, making massive leaps every year.

France is the only country who was lower in '38 then they were in '29 or had any industrial loss after 32.

The US went from 100 in 29 to 50 by 32, which was the steepest drop of any, bar Germany. Then went back to around 110. Germany dropped from 100 in 29 to around 50, then rose back to 120 by 38

That sounds like more or a relative production in comparison to where that nation was, not an absolute figure.

There is no way that the USSR had triple the industrial output of the USA on any year in it's history. If that is what the graph states, I would like to check the facts.

 

[Malch]

Interesting, everyone had severe dips in 1930 with the sole exception of the USSR who went from around 100 in 1929 to 400 in '38, making massive leaps every year.

That'd be the 5 year plans and rapid industrialization... looks great on paper...

 

[unmerged(11148)]

That sounds like more or a relative production in comparison to where that nation was, not an absolute figure.

There is no way that the USSR had triple the industrial output of the USA on any year in it's history. If that is what the graph states, I would like to check the facts.

while you are checking the facts keep in mind that the USSR didn't suffer from a great depression and the US was smashed by it. so There is a good chance that for awhile the USSR did in fact out produce (as far as products and services are concerned) the US. Also remember that the USSR had more people and that GDP is a measure of the gross domestic production. Given that it is the 30s and there were relatively few actual multi national companies GDP and GNP should be relatively the same. Although there should be some difference.

Given the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Acts reprecussion on trade during the 30s it is very well possible that the 30s were the worst decade for US production.

 

[unmerged(3902)]

while you are checking the facts keep in mind that the USSR didn't suffer from a great depression and the US was smashed by it. so There is a good chance that for awhile the USSR did in fact out produce (as far as products and services are concerned) the US. Also remember that the USSR had more people and that GDP is a measure of the gross domestic production. Given that it is the 30s and there were relatively few actual multi national companies GDP and GNP should be relatively the same. Although there should be some difference.

Given the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Acts reprecussion on trade during the 30s it is very well possible that the 30s were the worst decade for US production.

It still doesn't add up. Even at the depths of the depression, the US was still the world's largest industrial power with 3X the industrial output of either the UK or Germany. Perhaps the graph he was looking at was some sort of normed "industrial growth 1930-1939 graph or some such". Nonetheless, in 1939, in absolute terms, world industrial goods production looked like (and this is from my copy of Keegan):

The US : 42%
Germany (1939 expanded version): 14%
The UK: 14%
France: 5%

 

[flossy]

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1112/MR1112.ch3.pdf

Look at page, 9 in the document.

 

[Damocles]

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1112/MR1112.ch3.pdf

Look at page, 9 in the document.

Interesting. At least the French chart on its 'Real Output' corresponds to the Atlas chart, though they've omitted the USSR.

In any case, thats why I made the post in the first place. It just seems...odd.

 

[gamer42_au]

I think moneymj must be right - this is a table of _relative_ production compared to a base of 100 in 1929 for each country.

Here is a link to a League of Nations Yearbook which has various data for mineral and industrial production for the pre-war years: http://www.library.northwestern.edu/govpub/collections/league/stat.html#1938
For instance:
Electricity in millions of KWh in 1938:
Canada 25,999
USA 115,890
USSR
germany 55,238
France 19,300
Italy 15,108
UK 30,700 (and/or 25,700? the table has two figures for the UK)
Japan 26,714 (1937 data)

Steel in thousands of metric tons in 1938:
USA 28,805 (but produced 51,380 in 1937)
USSR 18,000
Germany 23,208
France 6,174 (7,920 in 1937)
Italy 2,307
UK 10,565 (13,192 in 1937)
Japan 5,811 in 1937

Using 1937 data, the US produced nearly 40% of world steel production (51,380 out of total 135,000)

Interestingly the US also produced over half the world crude oil production: 164 million tons out of 273 million total.

The Yearbooks also have an index of industrial production with base of 1929, which seems to have very similar numbers to those quoted in the earlier posts

 

[el freako]

Whilst not the same as Industrial Output here is data for GDP taken from "The World Economy Historical Statistics 1500-2000" by Angus Maddison.

1939 GDP at constant 1990 Dollars, converted using 1990 G-K PPPs

USA: $863bn
Soviet Union: $430bn (includes baltic states, without them it would be around $380bn)
Germany: $375bn (1938 borders, with Austria and Bohemia it would be around $430bn)
United Kingdom: $301bn
China: $280bn
India: $257bn
Japan: $204bn (add in Korea and Taiwan and it reaches around $240bn)
France: $201bn
Italy: $154bn
Empire Dominons (Canada, Australia, South Africa & New Zealand): $129bn

 

[unmerged(11148)]

Using 1937 data, the US produced nearly 40% of world steel production (51,380 out of total 135,000)

Interestingly the US also produced over half the world crude oil production: 164 million tons out of 273 million total.

The Yearbooks also have an index of industrial production with base of 1929, which seems to have very similar numbers to those quoted in the earlier posts

Steel was America's golden egg till the 60s or 70s. At that point many foreign companies became more technologically advanced and the US steel industry was slow to adapt (still is behind as matter of fact)

As far as oil is concerned. Pennsylvania was a major oil producer during the time frame and Venezulia had not found their stores of oil yet and the mid east was not pumping out a lot yet.

 

[unmerged(11148)]

It still doesn't add up. Even at the depths of the depression, the US was still the world's largest industrial power with 3X the industrial output of either the UK or Germany. Perhaps the graph he was looking at was some sort of normed "industrial growth 1930-1939 graph or some such". Nonetheless, in 1939, in absolute terms, world industrial goods production looked like (and this is from my copy of Keegan):

The US : 42%
Germany (1939 expanded version): 14%
The UK: 14%
France: 5%

Maybe by popping up with a few comments, people thought that I agreed about the USSR producing more. I didn't. I am not well read on the economic positions of the majors pre war. I was just stating some things to keep in mind.

Actually economically the US was the only economy that was NOT isolationist. While the other major economies were protectionalist the US was the last of the free traders.

Sorry but you are completely incorrect on this point. The US in the 30s passed some of the worst tariff laws that any country has ever passed. Some existing tariffs went up more than 100%. the reprocussions of this act can be seen in page 9 of the document linked by flossy. That large dip after 1930 is a result of the UK, France, Italy, Germany, Canada, The Dutch, and just about everyone else raise tariffs against the US in retaliation of their across the board Smoot-Hawley act. Before 1930 somewhere around 1914 there was another act that set the tariffs that remained unchanged (and high) till 1930. SO in all of the 20th century up to 1939 or so the US was one of the worse Isolationist governements with protectionist regulations on their economy.

 

[unmerged(9829)]

while you are checking the facts keep in mind that the USSR didn't suffer from a great depression and the US was smashed by it. so There is a good chance that for awhile the USSR did in fact out produce (as far as products and services are concerned) the US. Also remember that the USSR had more people and that GDP is a measure of the gross domestic production. Given that it is the 30s and there were relatively few actual multi national companies GDP and GNP should be relatively the same. Although there should be some difference.

Given the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Acts reprecussion on trade during the 30s it is very well possible that the 30s were the worst decade for US production.

Remember this is the same decade of the Hoover Dam, the Empire State Building and the Tennesse Valley Authority. While there were government projects, some people made a heck of a lot of money off them.

The great Depression was bad for the economy but it did not drestroy the factories or the Mines or the infastruture that exsisted in the 20's. The factories may have been closed but they were still there. As far as the 30's being the worst decade they still produced over %40 of the worlds goods, which is a bigger realitive piece of the pie then they have now.

The Soviet union was coming out of the Civil War and went right into Stalinism, which while good for heavy industry was not necessarily good in terms of total output. Don't forget he systematically wiped out the Kulaks in favor of centralized agriculture.