Historical Improvement Project

[Antiochus V]

I tried this out last night on my laptop (1700 with 512ram) It was a little on the slow side. I did like the tech trees, and the restriction on ICs, combined with a gradual expansion in line with economic growth and increases in defence spending.

However it would be nice if the mod did not run quite so slowly.

 

[Marlborough]

v0.33 is out

Does the slow down problem still exist with v0.33?

Panther, will installing 0.33 over top of 0.31 affect my ability to complete a 0.31 game already in process?

Also, my Brit subs have an organization of 5%. I see one tech that raises them a bit available to me, but is this low org a national characteristic that cannot be significantly raised for the Brits, since the did not historically employ subs in the same manner as the US and Germany against merchant shipping?

 

[hellfish6]

I think all subs have low org.

 

[Marlborough]

I think all subs have low org.

Is that so ahistoric players cannot build a German fleet of 36 Subs and use it for the unrealistic tactic of destroying the British Navy and getting an easy Sea Lion? If so, I would agree with this approach, as I always laugh when reading the AAR's of the 'conquer the world' German players about how their massed subs took out the Royal Navy and made for an easy Sealion in 39. Would have never have happened that way IRL. I guess these players forget the part in the WWII sub movie where the sub has to dive, hide, and then run for its life whenever a surface warship comes around.

But if the org is down, do the subs retain their effectiveness against convoys, as they should? They should be very effective there, and very ineffective in fleet combat.

 

[unmerged(12544)]

Panther, will installing 0.33 over top of 0.31 affect my ability to complete a 0.31 game already in process?

Yes, I never recommend that.

Also, my Brit subs have an organization of 5%. I see one tech that raises them a bit available to me, but is this low org a national characteristic that cannot be significantly raised for the Brits, since the did not historically employ subs in the same manner as the US and Germany against merchant shipping?

Org does not matter at all versus convoys, only versus other naval units. The purpose of this is to prevent long sub battles and allow the subs to retreat fast (dive). They can still strike hard versus surface ships, it can even be a longer battle, if no DDs are present. When DDs are there it should be short battle.

 

[Szun]

v0.33 is out

Does the slow down problem still exist with v0.33?

What exactly is new in 0.33?

 

[unmerged(12544)]

v0.33
-revolt.txt: TRA,SIB,RUS provinces corrected
-German, Italy, Japan and Soviet surrender events improved, Italy has now two, no more DDR and DFR at this point
-France will be gone for some months now after Vichy is set up
-Defection events of Vichy colonies will fire at a fix date, more added
-Air AI will tolerate less losses for ground attack missions
-Slight changes to "brigade" combat stats
-Balkan campaign, YUG and BUL will stay longer neutral, changes to YUG coup series
-rocket and jet fighter now only need Interceptor '40 as prequesition (preliminary, feedback?)
-Soviet mobilization versus Germany improved
-upgrade cost for mechanized and mech marine lowered to 40%
-Alpha version of the 1942 "Stalingrad" campaign added, no play testing and balancing, playable, but I would not recommend it

Plus bugfixes, see first page.

 

[Szun]

thx..i honestly didnt look at first page lately

ok something else i think that needs some improvement/correction


Norway 1940
The "weserübung" event is fine but it lacks the historical reason behind it and the consequenses(sp?).

Afaik, without doublechecking sources, the reason for the invasion of Norway was the planed invasion of British forces to cut of the "Reich" from the svedish
ore supplies wich came over the mountains to Narvik and was loaded onto ships there to be transported down along the coast to a german harbour.

I allways thought about what would have happend if the Germans waited for the british to invade and "rescued" the norvegians from them.
wich would have been the smarter move if you ask me, in the first place. Not alone would the Norwegian population look differant on german troops, but germany would have a new ally too.
The british forces send by churchill where ill equipt, not well trained and lacked airsupport.

My suggestionis, to add a chain of event to give the german the option to "invade now!" or to wait and rescue the norvegians after the british invaded.
As is it is now there isnt really any british action involved, or at least none that i am aware.
Wich bares the question why the german AI or Player should invade at all if there is not threat for the ore transports.

Btw. if the british would have helped the Finns vs USSR like churchill had a plan for, some things would have turned a totally differant road.
USSR would not have looked upon the allies to foundly for helping the finns.
For once, the US would never have send 40000 tanks, 2 mil combatboots and whatever they shiped to the soviets, with no doubt servere consequences for the war in russia. If not the worst for the allies would have happned and USSR declareing war on them, germany was a "friend" pre barbarossa, so this is 1 possible outcome as well, even tho the war would be limited to scandinavia, at least at first.

Also i dont see a reason for the svedish ore to be shiped over a northern svedish port, no doubt the germans would have helped out to fund the infrastructure needed. Germany was very depended on that ore.

So as you can see there is a lot of room for historical choises, the ones made, some nearly made and some abondened.


A good short term improvement would be a british invasion in narvik and the choise to not invade premature as germany.


Szun

 

[unmerged(12544)]

The Norway series is from Paradox and can certainly be improved. Norway gives some resources and is perfect defensive terrain, the Allies never tried to invade there.

Btw. if the british would have helped the Finns vs USSR like churchill had a plan for, some things would have turned a totally differant road.

Not so sure about that. From the point of the German DoW, the UK and SOV were "friends"/allies, they needed each other too much. The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

Also i dont see a reason for the svedish ore to be shiped over a northern svedish port, no doubt the germans would have helped out to fund the infrastructure needed. Germany was very depended on that ore.

Yes, the amount of ore shipped via Narvik was going down, still being significant, from the start of the war on, that shiftet to Lulea and other ports near by.

So as you can see there is a lot of room for historical choises, the ones made, some nearly made and some abondened.

Sure, you could improve this game forever, but currently in HIP not even the narrow historical path is covered enough with events and AIs. At this point other alternative paths, that require too much effort can not be done by me alone.

A good short term improvement would be a british invasion in narvik and the choise to not invade premature as germany.

I could make the Allies AI go into Norway, but not out. They would loose important units, which would be missing elsewhere. The same is true for the BEF in France, currently I am reducing the UK divison numbers there.

 

[Szun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Szun
Btw. if the british would have helped the Finns vs USSR like churchill had a plan for, some things would have turned a totally differant road.

Not so sure about that. From the point of the German DoW, the UK and SOV were "friends"/allies, they needed each other too much. The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

We talk 1940, Germany just finalized MR pact, with british diplomats failing to achive a thing with the soviets.
At the point of Norway, the germans are more liked then the allies by the russians. I dont say Stalin would blindly trust Hitler...he knew, specially after the expantion of the gemran powerbase in the balkan, that a confrontation was unavoidable. He hoped for more time tho. If germany would have dowed Ussr in 42 i doubt they would have seen the kremel at all. (closest german troops where 20km away from moskow and saw the golden kremel from afar, they even fired a couple shoot with '88mm; this is from a vitness report in a doco I saw not long ago)
The political grounds in 1940 were a bit differant then after war with russia.
Some historians argue if churchill would have helped Finnland, a war might have been possible with russia.
Well it didnt happen and you are right .."what ifs" are plenty around to cover every possible outcome.
I also know that such a event chain wouldnt be easy to create and a lot of work.
...............................................
I remember a doco about the early stages of the war and when france mobilized 6 million man... Churchill send them 200.000.
Thats about 10-15 divisons in gameterms i think. Not counting logistics etc..prolly 10 fighting divisons.
Why reduce them? I know your mod makes it a bit harder to get france on the knees. If you reduce the BEF you defacto make it easier to break through and 5 more divisons at home wont make much of a differance.
Once the RN is gone, brits are a goner...5 more divisons wont change that. 50 yes but not 5.

 

[hellfish6]

No speed improvement with 0.33.

 

[unmerged(12544)]

At the point of Norway, the germans are more liked then the allies by the russians. I dont say Stalin would blindly trust Hitler...he knew, specially after the expantion of the gemran powerbase in the balkan, that a confrontation was unavoidable. He hoped for more time tho.

Because Hitler could offer Stalin land, the British could not.

The political grounds in 1940 were a bit differant then after war with russia.
Some historians argue if churchill would have helped Finnland, a war might have been possible with russia.

Take the Chinese Civil War, once they were threatened from outside, they ended hostilities verus each other.

Even if the UK and the Soviet Union were at war, they could change their mind, because of a bigger thread. The UK knew, that a German victory would mean dominance over Continental Europe, that's why they tried to achieve an alliance with the "devil" Stalin. I doubt, that they ever trusted Stalin and after the German surrender their "friendship" was soon gone.

If you reduce the BEF you defacto make it easier to break through and 5 more divisons at home wont make much of a differance.
Once the RN is gone, brits are a goner...5 more divisons wont change that. 50 yes but not 5.

5 divs are very important and can decide, if the Italians will reach Jerusalem or not. France will loose with BEF or without, there is no difference for German AI or human control. I might introduce a "Dunkerque" event, that gives back lost units, but I don't know, if it will work.

No speed improvement with 0.33.

Then it was not the weather choice. I would still accept 1 game day taking up to 15 seconds as normal and will keep an eye on it.

 

[Szun]

i know i know we could argue all month and still had more to agrue about

ok somthing else...

I ran into a game mechanic problem i have no idea if you can even fix it.
I build 6 superhaevy BBs with germany and by the time paris fell the french and british navys had no capital ships left. I lost 3 CL total.
Why is the AI keep comeing with damaged fleets i dont understand it...
If the AI had a repair managment, both countrys would have had at least 2/3 of the fleet left.
But as it is its way to easy and no fun at all.

My naval bombers didnt do much damage..only finished the job the fleet started...a couple times

I was sending damaged ships home to be repaired but he kept coming with half strength BBs etc.
If you know a way to correct that it would be awesome, if not ..well...I cant hope for miracles

Szun

 

[hellfish6]

I think it's a good offset for the AI having unlimited ranges. That irritates the hell out of me.

 

[Szun]

I think it's a good offset for the AI having unlimited ranges. That irritates the hell out of me.

Well, the unlimited range bothers me too...kinda hate british bombers attacking my troops in poland, coming over Kattegat...
But i can live with that...
IF Uk loses all ships but CL and DDs because i have 5 BC and 6 BBs with screens..that bothers me. More so, knowing i got less positioning then they do
Ok those where H-class super heavys but only 6 of them...vs 12 BB 7 CV 3 BC 15 CAs...
and building those 6 sometimes made me wonder if i had enough troops for poland, i went into poland with 6 tanks 3 mot and 48 inf
Worked out..but still the smallest land army i ever put onto the polish borders.

Invadeing UK after Vichy was a walk in the park...my troops hit scapa flow at august '40

to easy...way to easy

p.s. i think i try USSR for a change less fleets...

 

[unmerged(12544)]

Szun,

The AI should according to its instructions return to port, when strength falls below 80, but I can't tell you, if this is for one ship or more likely for the whole fleet.
Coming with half strength might be the attempt to move to a better base, but to make sure, you should save the game and reload as the AI country to check the fleet.

I think it's a good offset for the AI having unlimited ranges. That irritates the hell out of me.

I am undecided about that, currently I am trying to tell the AI, where not go, e.g. Norway to the Mediterranean.

...kinda hate british bombers attacking my troops in poland, coming over Kattegat...

I can not turn off attacks against specific countries or in certain areas.

i went into poland with 6 tanks 3 mot and 48 inf
Worked out..but still the smallest land army i ever put onto the polish borders.

In vanilla Poland looks way overpowered to me.

Invadeing UK after Vichy was a walk in the park...my troops hit scapa flow at august '40

I can make the UK loose less or no troops in France, then they can defend their beaches better. But there is this AI behaviour to send their whole fleet against a new enemy, in your case probably Italy, then as Lothos admits, the channel is undefended for about 4 months and Sealion is easy. I will look at this later.

 

[Szun]

Sealion was easy because the british had only CLs and DDs left...rest of the mighty RN was sunk to the floor of the ocean...right along the french fleet...
There was no other enemy..italy wasnt in the war yet and had a -89 towards germany after not signing the anti comitern packt. Why that happend i have no idea.
The only new axis memeber i got after paris was Rumania...

Beside, if UK has 15 more troops as garrison that would not change much since i shiped 60 divisons over on the isle and send 50 to the east boarder.
After the fall of paris i had 170 divisons up and about.
The allies lost aprox 70 divisons in belgium and in the final battle in dunkirk.
I was waiting for theto move to belgium and send 21 divisons on route to calais, mot and tanks, wich did the job just fine.
I checked french forces after dunkirk and they went from 94 inf at the start to 50 after paris. I had some huge battle in belgium 20ish vs 30ish and 1 in ghent was 30 allied vs my 50 attacking. was exiting to follow those

 

[rook749]

Comments On Current Game

I'm running a game as Germany, is now June 22 1941 and I've run across several things.

1) The event for the invasion of Norway and Denmark never fired, not sure if this should always fire 100% or if there is only a high % change that it does every game.

2) I invited Yugo into my alliance sometime toward the end of 1940, they later jumped out of the alliance, but were still allied to me with a peace treaty toward everyone but still at war with Greece???

We sat like this for about a month, I invited them back into the alliance (but it said they were still my ally???). Two days later I received the event again and this time they left my alliance and I was given the option to prepare for war, and then a little bit later the option again to go to war.

3) Yugo was dead by the January 1941, sometime in 1941 I received and event asking me if I wanted to invite Yugo into the Pact of Steel? I think this event just need to check to ensure that Yugo is still around.

I love the mod.

 

[unmerged(12544)]

1) The event for the invasion of Norway and Denmark never fired, not sure if this should always fire 100% or if there is only a high % change that it does every game.

There will be changes in the trigger of this event, but what will stay is the "Danzig or War" event as requirement and a random chance, so that it might not fire everytime. You also must be at peace with Norway.

2) I invited Yugo into my alliance sometime toward the end of 1940, they later jumped out of the alliance, but were still allied to me with a peace treaty toward everyone but still at war with Greece???

We sat like this for about a month, I invited them back into the alliance (but it said they were still my ally???). Two days later I received the event again and this time they left my alliance and I was given the option to prepare for war, and then a little bit later the option again to go to war.

There will also be small changes to this event. I need to make it a bit more complex to catch such cases.

3) Yugo was dead by the January 1941, sometime in 1941 I received and event asking me if I wanted to invite Yugo into the Pact of Steel? I think this event just need to check to ensure that Yugo is still around.

Added.

 

[unmerged(15262)]

CTD v33

Playing Soviet Union Oct 16 1941 a trade aggerment is canciled an two brigades are ready for deployment than ctd 4x so far one time slowed speed down to fast.