Rhipeen

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Since my issue with one thing got too large I decided to make it into other message, at first it was concerning calling Slavnikids "z Prczic" according to their seat of power while still calling Premyslid premyslid (if you are going to use one terminology like I noticed you do with other dynasties, then Premyslids can be called "z Czech" or "Czesky" since that was how they were called at the time.
...
Now my second issue is with localization overall, czech as other languages evolved its writing overall, but using the word overall again, it was huge nonuniform mess, that only got some form of rules later (14-15th century once people actually started writing) so I would use the more uniform later forms for letters like č ř š and not mix all the forms (especially the earlier ones where normal "c" could be "cz" so you had no idea if it was read as czech "c" or "č", and the same went with "normal" "s")
...
If you are going to include "č" as "cz", the also include "ř" as rz, if you are going to use "W" instead of "V", do it everywhere, "š" is difficult since it was written in many different ways at the time, (ff, ss, zz, sz) and following the trend I think settling on "sz" would be the best
...
"ž" "ď " "ť " "ň" unfortunately do not have such counterparts and were sometimes used with the letter "i" or for example todays serbo-croatian uses "dj" etc but using the letter "j" in old czech is problematic because it was written as "g" back then (Jihlava was Gihlawa)
if "ž" happened to be before "e" then "Zie" was used (Example "ze Zierotina
...
á é í ý ó ú were sometimes written as two normal letters next to each other, but it wasnt used that much and honestly it would look weird with some of them (especially yy) but other czech letter "ů" has different origin, it has that ° above it because it used to be "uo" which makes it usable
EDIT: I didnt notice that you can use áéíóú just fine so that one goes out the window, the one for ů still stands though
...
after hours of work researching I gave up seriously though, almost half of all the dynasties, even if they are used for generic generation of nobles, are branches of much older dynasties, like the branches of the Markvartic family, out of 72 dynasties in 00_dynasties.txt marked as Bohemian, 8 of them are Markvartic, 9 are Vitkovic, 7 are benesovic, I also looked at the slovieni houses and got nicely confused, because Slavomirid was listed as bohemian dynasty, and then it was in the list again, but this time listed ad slovien dynasty, ie it was there 2 times (aside from Slavomir in great moravia which could be namewith that dynasty, Bohemia never had such a house in its history) then I also noticed that slovien has two dynasties that goe "Velehradsky" and "Veligradsky" which mean exactly the same thing just differently written. I will work on it later on and maybe I will submit something
...
Either way, since I saw an issue with Slavnikids being refered to as "z Libicz" and Premyslids still being called Premyslids, even though in the files it was noted that it will be changed
I propose this, Premyslids represented the czechs, firstly as a tribe and then as a nation, while the subservient Slavnikids represented the Zličané tribe, so I would call Premyslids as "Czesky" and Slavnikids as "Zliczansky"
 
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Rhipeen

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Either way, since I saw an issue with Slavnikids being refered to as "z Libicz" and Premyslids still being called Premyslids, even though in the files it was noted that it will be changed
I propose this, Premyslids represented the czechs, firstly as a tribe and then as a nation, while the subservient Slavnikids represented the Zličané tribe, so I would call Premyslids as "Czesky" and Slavnikids as "Zliczansky"
Well ofc this entire thing would go for nothing if other theories get confirmed, theory n.1 there were not so many tribes, czechs were dominant, ie Zličané would not be a valid idea for naming, theory n.2 Slavnikids were descendants of Premyslids that were supposted to inherit the duchy but did not, therefore threw a fit and got massacred in return theory n.3 Slavnikids were from a "polish" descent of Poraj, theory n.4 aliens
...
Currently the game goes with the theory that Slavnikids were a remainder of old tribal nobility (EDIT which is a long time ago disproved theory btw). But I for personal reasons see the descent from Premyslids as more likely, and since I am no academic, my opinion is oof. (btw fun fact the slavnikids family got massacred against wishes of Boleslav II)
 
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Rhipeen

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czech issues continuation
titles (atm for some reason czech kingdom was called khanate and kingdoms were also known as khanates.... which suprised me because other titles are in normally so I checked the files and discovered that in A_Nobletitles.csv kingdom and kingdom_of basic names are set in the mongol category propably missing _mongol and therefore setting "Khanate" as the name for every unlocalized kingdom)
now for my main issue/idea
there is a problem with czech titles, because duke (kníže/knízze) was only the duke of bohemia, moravia is a margraviate so that title doesnt have issues, but the issues lies between basic duke titles, counts and barons
in Bohemia there werent really any counts, but a lot of "barons" with really high authority compared to other european nobles (especially in late middleages) and those were known as "Páni" and generaly anyone who owned a castle was Pán, czech nobility refused to use titles of Kníže even in 17th century and still refered to themselves as "Pán" no matter their authority and power, the only higher titles was the duchy/kingdom of Bohemia and margraviate of Moravia
there could be used the title "vladyka" for barons, but there will be the issue of historical inaccuracy, vladyka generaly did not own a castle, but only a village with fort at best
so if we name barons "Pán/Paní" then that leaves counts and dukes, kníže were titles that were used more in silesia and east of us, so leaving that as the name for duchies, so it also sticks to duchy of bohemia is propably optimal but that then leaves us with counts.... if we name them Páni, then they will share names with baron, if we name them Kníže, then they will share name with dukes. and since core czech nobility generaly refused the tile of kníže, setting both for Páni would be the most accurate, and to solve the issue for same name, I would name the barons with longer name (generaly Pán can be translated as Lord and Pán was also called Svobodný Pán ie Free Lord, so if we call the barons "Swobodný Pán" and counts as "Pán" or viceversa the problem would be "gone")
...
EDIT other issue with titile is calling the kingdom same as the duchy aka "Czechy" while in english "Bohemia" can be used for both, in czech it cannot be, "Czechy" is used only and exclusively to the area of the duchy, while the whole kingdom or its subservient lands were known as "Království české (czech kingdom) or Země české (czech lands)" so naming the title something like "Zemie Czeské" would fit much much better
 

Piterdaw

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I've got a problem with the Fourth Crusade. Whenever "Passionate Speech" event happens, the crusade target immediately changes back from Thrace to the previous one. Any ideas what could be the cause?
 

Rhipeen

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A problem you are going to run into is that the game uses Windows-1252 encoding for text. You will only be able to use letters that appear in that encoding. That will exclude at least ů and anything with a ˇ (caron) over it except š & ž. Those letters simply don't exist in that encoding.
Thats one of the entire points about one of my comments, ů used to be uo so it can be changed to that, but going entirely into old czech script would be suicide (there were many different ways one could write certain letters, so "c" could mean 3 different sounds "k"(standart latin pronunciation of c) "c"(czech c sounds like "ts") or "č" (softened c which makes the "ch" or "cz" sound in english)), so I am proposing a sort of hybrid pseudo historical script that czechs could still understand while it also looks "old czech" like, so leaving the letters that are already in like áéíýóú but changing those that are not available to something else sometimes depending on czech pronunciation and a bit of history
writting based in history
ů - uo
š - sz
č - cz
ř - rz
ž - zz
not really necessary but it gives it that historical look for most czech things and was still used until like 19th century in some things
v - w
ě and some other "softened" letters are special, ě used to be written as ie, but czech pronunciation of letter today written as J is closer (historical czech letter was written as g instead of j, which can confuse many, not to mention the J of czech is pronounced the same as latin J, honeslty no idea why we wrote it as g if the J latin pronunciation was the same as ours, not to mention g for g was also still used)
ě - je
ť - tj
ď - dj
ň - nj
 
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elvain

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@Rhipeen the problem with Czech language spelling is much more prosaic than it may seem. And I fear you are overthinking it a bit.

The cause and conclusion of all the problems is that the game supports only few of the special signs used in Czech. And, as you yourself mentioned, using medieval way of writing the names has no consistency and would look really weird in many cases... and if you go down this path, you will find 3-10 versions of many names... and every now and then somebody asking to change it because it looks weird and is inconsistent.... well because as we know, that medieval (pre-Hus) way of writing was not codified and every writter used his own way of writing the more complicated names... because using some strict rules of consistency will on the other hand force you to invent some fantasy spelling to some historical names.

Your suggestion does look good in theory, but once you start applying it on the real ingame names - and by this I mean every single Czech name appearing in game, you will soon find that half of the names look extremely awfull, so you end up prefering some sort of hybrid spelling, which is the current solution. It is not consistent, many names look weird, but well, it's the least weird version agreed upon.

As for the dynasty names -
I remember having a discussion of Czech forumites only whether to call vanilla Bohemian names Czech or English and in either version, what should be the final version...
In brief, we discussed whether to use Czech naming (Vršovci/Přemyslovci, Markvartici etc.), but then we had to deal with the problem of singular vs. plural versions and which one to prefer. (Bořut Vršovec, Bořut Vršovic or Bořut Vršovci? - if you add various variants of spelling mentioned above this would mean also variants Borzut Vrssovec, Borzut Vrssovic or Borzut Vrssovci) - in the end, with any Czech localized version you pick, you will find having much more awfully looking names, than good/accurately looking and accurately used names.

The final conclusion of that discussion was that it's much better to use names in English. You won't reach consistence nor perfect accuracy and will end up with all names looking little weird for a Czech. But you would still be closer to some sort of consistency than if Czech variants are used. Unfortunately SWMH has the policy of localised names and hence you need to accept a mess of weirdly/wrongly looking names being used wrongly and being very inconsistent at the same time.
And since I realized it looks terribly awful no matter what you do, I ceased to care.

Honestly in my opinion, it's much better to use English localisations.
 
Last edited:

Delnar_Ersike

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I haven't played HIP in some time, am coming back to it after a 2 year absence. I just installed the latest Frosty2 and was checking some of the files, when I noticed that Frosty2 does not have a "01_artifacts_books.txt" file in common/artifacts, although the vanilla game does have this file.

Does this mean that with HIP you can no longer create any Magnum Opus books or gain any book artifacts at all? I really enjoyed all of the book artifacts, so can I just place the 01_artifacts_books.txt from vanilla into the common/artifacts folder inside HIP and play with them again?

I really liked all of the mystical/occult aspects of the game, even though I know they're not historical.

Because of the way HIP's installer is meant to work regardless of which combination of mods you install, HIP never outright replaces any of the game's folders the way a lot of total conversion mods do. What this means is that if a file is not present in the HIP mod folder, that file is not overwritten and the vanilla version of it will be used when playing with HIP. If something is deleted outright, you will usually find a version of that file in HIP that is just a blank file, or a file with everything commented out (c.f. common/cb_types/01_cb_types.txt and common/cb_types/02_cb_types_shattered_world.txt).

While EMF did do a massive balancing pass on all artifacts a few versions back, books were largely unaffected by it, as we deemed that books are the only non-supernatural artifact type where pretty much all bonuses are appropriate, especially because of how hard it is to obtain high-quality books (compared to other artifact types, like the +2 Axe) and how the massive selection of books plus the randomization aspect for what book you make when writing one makes it extremely difficult to go for a specific book that you would want.
 

Dunderdon

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I have a quick question about succession law change. It bugs me that my king-tier vassals (e.g. Exarchate of Italy) always change the succession laws to protected inheritance (to their sons). Can I somehow force them to keep the byzantine imperial elective government?
 

Greene

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How do I convert pagans in this mod?

I can only send my Court Chaplain to proselytize in realm counties but I have pagan neighbours who I want to convert.

EDIT: Got a few more short questions:
2) What is mood? If it only affects common interest factions then nevermind.

3) What’s the point of joining a common interest faction like the Glory Faction, Court Faction, etc?
 
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Nekro

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How do I go about fixing this?
vikingknights.png
 
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Spectrea

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HIP is unable to find my install to check for dlc and install CDRplus, is there anyway to point it in the right direction or something? Do i have to have Steam installed on the C:\? Its installed somewhere else entirely. Imagine just chucking the files from the modules folder wouldn't work either.
 

Greene

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HIP is unable to find my install to check for dlc and install CDRplus, is there anyway to point it in the right direction or something? Do i have to have Steam installed on the C:\? Its installed somewhere else entirely. Imagine just chucking the files from the modules folder wouldn't work either.

The path is in main.py. I don’t know what to do, I just know it’s gameFolder = GetSteamFolder() or something like that. I did try to change that along with the Steam master folder variable but it didn’t work. Screw python. Maybe you’ll have better luck.
 

RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen

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Is it possible to stop Kingdom vassals to ask baron-tier vassals to serve them? I am in a strange position, as Eastern Roman Empire, I am trying to recreate the Roman Empire. Now I have a very centralized state, so my vassal limit is not high. I created several Kingdoms, and have them out. However my personal demesne is in Thrake and Opsikon, meaning Kingdom of Thessalonika and Nikea. If I gave those titles away, my vassals keep asking for bishops, and majors from my personal demesne to serve them. If I keep them however I have several dukes as vassals, and that pushes me over the vassal limit. Solutions?
Another question, is it somehow possbile to make baron-tier vassals not to count towards vassal limit, at least when you are an emperor? Half of my vassal limit goes away on the mentioned bishops and majors, which is kinda annoying when you are trying to recreate Rome...