Historical Divisions - Germany

[Shaka of Carthage]

Base game limitations in regards to historical units. There are no motorized units. You have the standard units (what I call towed) that move at infantry speed, then the Self Propelled versions, that move at armor speeds. As with the ground units, the Artillery unit has 36 guns and 500 manpower (ideally a battalion should be 12 guns and 650 manpower). And the unit sizes should be adjusted. The below is based on those constraints.

German Motorized Division
6 x Motorized Inf Battalions
1 x Motorized Inf Battalion (ie Motorcycle Bn, a unit we don't have)
SP AntiTank Battalion
SP Artillery Battalion

Support units
Engineer
Recon
Artillery
Signal
Field Hospital

Primary purpose of the Motorized Divisions were to protect the flank and rear of the Panzer Corps. They also found that they were capable of breakthroughs and exploitation's, just like the Panzer divisions.

In 1937-38, formed two (2) divisions.
In 1939, formed another two (2) divisions.

After France, two (2) of the existing divisions were formed into Panzer Divisions, two (2) new divisions were raised and six (6) Infantry divisions were converted into Motorized (three of them using French or other captured vehicles).

In 1943, eight (8) became Panzergrenadier Divisions (some reorganization of existing units and the addition of a Panzer or Assault Gun Battalion). Two (2) were de-motorized and became Infantry divisions. Another two (2) were raised from misc units in Sardinia and the remnants of the Afrika Korp.

Assault Gun battalions were formed after France and where designed to provide the Infantry Divisions with close support. Were always in great demand and there were never enough of them to go around. Roughly fifteen (15) battalions were available for Barbarossa. There really isn't an appropriate unit in HoI4 to represent them. They are direct fire artillery weapons that were also useful as anit-tank weapons. So you could represent them as a SP Artillery or a SP Anti-Tank (ie Tank Destroyer) unit. I prefer the SP Tank Destroyer.

Gross-Deutschland... was a Motorized Infantry Regiment at the time of Barbarossa. The soldiers were specially selected from army units all over Germany. If there was ever a unit that should be defined as "elite" in game terms, it is them.

Gross-Deutschland Motorized Infantry Regiment
3 x Motorized Inf Battalions
1 x SP Tank Destroyer Battalion (to represent Assault Guns and Infantry Guns)

Support units
Engineer (they had enough attached engineers to get the engineer bonuses)
Recon
Artillery
Anti-Tank (remove if SP TD Bn used above)

In May '43, they were expanded to a Division, renamed Grossdeutschland PanzerGrenadier Division. Organized and equipped like a Panzer Division.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

The divisions of the 1st through 4th (39, 16, 20 and 14 divisions respectively) waves ... their composition varied relatively little, certainly not enough to warrant a separate template in HOI IV terms. In addition to these 4 waves of infantry there were border forvces which were converted to infantry between september 39 and may 40. The 1st through 3rd Mountain divisions had existed since the Anschluss.

Gonna have to disagree with you regarding the equipment levels of the second, third and fourth waves. They were not initially equipped the same as the first wave. The initial manpower levels and the TOE (German Kriegstarkenachweisungen - KStN if you prefer) reflected that. They were eventually equipped the same as the first wave, same as if you fully trained them after deploying them early. Same process that normalized the age distribution within the division.

The Frontier Guards and Landesschutzen are already part of the 51 and 11 counts.

You could read what I initially said as implying that the 3 mountain divisions were raised in 1939. I've edited the post to say "By 1939" instead of "In 1939".

The Leichte divisions should not be cavalry in HOI IV terms, these units were fully mechanized (largely motor in HOI IV terms).

And deny cavalry their fading moments of glory? Calling them motorized is just as valid (since Mech is a 1940 tech). I've edited that choice in as well.

Very few static (bodenständige) divisions existed in the early years of the war (some were formed in late 39 early 40 only to be disbanded again after the unexpected rapid fall of France (some newly formed infantry divisions were likewise disbanded). ... In 1944 most such units were able to rapidly form a Kampfgruppe of about a third of their strength for mobile operations while the remaining two thirds had to wait for reinforcements before they could move out of their deployment areas.

Thank you for the additional information. Someone may find it informative.

Ah yes, Volksgrenadier (and Grenadier before them) divisions. These should in no way be considered militia. Originally the difference between infantry and grenadier divisions was in name only. In game terms it's mostly a matter of naming and no more. When old infantry divisions were destroyed and reformed or just reorganised in 1944/45 they'd automatically be renamed into Volksgrenadier. Obviously these units were on average (only on average, some of these were quite good usually depending on the cadre they were formed around) of lower quality than divisions in 1941.

Here I again must disagree. We are talking about 1944 VG divisions. No way can they be considered to have the same quality of manpower (ie Infantry Battalion) as the 1939 thru 1941 divisions. Hence my comment about tying the subpar unit (ie militia) to "scrapping the barrel" conscription and the inability to build Infantry Battalions.

By the way, the 1944 divisions usually had a Jäger battalion, essentially a 7th infantry battalion which also had to fulfill a recon role. In addition to that many divisions had Ost (often former Soviet POW pressed into German service) battalions meaning that in practice divisions in the West had a nominal 9-10 infantry battalions just like their Eastern colleagues. The difference was again in quality (obviously the Ost battalions usually were very unmotivated to fight the Western Allies), mobility and equipment.

And this is why it is so hard to get a consensus on the post-Barbarossa "divisions". Jager battalion would be replacing the Recon unit. In game terms, would there be any difference? And no way am I convinced that the former POWs are combat battalions. Combat support, yes, as it freed "German" manpower for the combat battalions. And even if you were to represent them with combat battalions, what unit would you use?

P.S.: Probably the ultimate source for formation and organisation of German troops is Georg Tessin's series of "Verbände und Truppen der Deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen SS im zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945" books.

One of my sources may have that as a reference. Sadly, I am limited to English sources.

P.P.S.: Some of these matters are by the way already covered in the Black Ice mod for HOI IV...

I'm aware of the BICE mod. Mod's that create new units would address some of the above issues.

 

[Fulmen]

Some of these matters are by the way already covered in the Black Ice mod for HOI IV...

BICE is massively unbalanced and cluttered with useless feature-creep for the sake of having feature-creep.

Its balance will never be addressed because it's designed by people with the logic of "it's not our fault if you break the game by not roleplaying".

Sure there's good stuff in there too, but the above is the sum of the mod as a whole.

Btw this is coming from someone who has played BICE for HoI3 for at least ~6 years and modded it extensively for personal use, so this post is not a case of the typical mod scare of "it's different so I don't like it".

 

[TorAndreKongelf]

I really like this thread so I think it should be kept alive.

One thing I miss is the Feldgenarmiee which had its use in checkpoints and fighting partisans in occupied countries. I make them myself from time to time but not sure what they consisted of.

On a side note, I try to keep things historical for myself but I find it an almost impossible project, since divisions varied so much and they went through reorganizations almost each year.

 

[Bundeswag]

I really like this thread so I think it should be kept alive.

One thing I miss is the Feldgenarmiee which had its use in checkpoints and fighting partisans in occupied countries. I make them myself from time to time but not sure what they consisted of.

On a side note, I try to keep things historical for myself but I find it an almost impossible project, since divisions varied so much and they went through reorganizations almost each year.

Weren't feldgendarmerie just normal military police used in occupational duties? I don't think they would have operated in division sized units.

 

[TorAndreKongelf]

Ah well if so that explains something. Then we can just assume Feldgenderarmie is the equalent of Militarypolice company.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Base game limitations in regards to historical units. There are no motorized units. You have the standard units (what I call towed) that move at infantry speed, then the Self Propelled versions, that move at armor speeds. As with the ground units, the Artillery unit has 36 guns and 500 manpower (ideally a battalion should be 12 guns and 650 manpower). And the unit sizes should be adjusted. The below is based on those constraints.

German Mountain Division
6 x Mountain Inf Battalions
Artillery Battalion

Support units
Engineer
Recon
Artillery (optional)
Anti-Tank
Signal
Field Hospital

Note that if you decide to use the Artillery Support unit, you will have to remove one of the other five (5).

Pre-1938 there were relatively few German Gebirgstruppen (Mountain Forces).

April 1938, following Anschluss (annexing of Austria), the mountain troops of the Austrian Army (and the smaller German units) were used to form three (3) Mountain Divisions.

They were equipped with specialist mountain warfare equipment, some of it the best in its class. These Gebirgs (Mountain) divisions, being lightly equipped and highly motivated, were used in an amphibious role, as Germany had no Marines, specialized landing craft or naval landing experience. For those same reasons, they were also utilized in an air-landing role.

June to Oct 1940, three (3) additional Mountain divisions were formed.

Roughly the same time, there were four (4) Jager infantry divisions formed (with more created after Barbarossa). While they followed the same organization as the Mountain divisions (see above), they were light infantry, not mountain troops. Use six (6) Infantry battalions instead of the Mountain Inf battalions in the above if you want to represent them.

A seventh (7th) Mountain division was formed after Barbarossa, from converting an existing Jager division.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Base game limitations in regards to historical units. There are no motorized units. You have the standard units (what I call towed) that move at infantry speed, then the Self Propelled versions, that move at armor speeds. As with the ground units, the Artillery unit has 36 guns and 500 manpower (ideally a battalion should be 12 guns and 650 manpower). And the unit sizes should be adjusted. The below is based on those constraints.

German Cavalry Division
8 x Cavalry Battalions
1 x Motorized Inf Battalion
Anti-Tank Battalion
Artillery Battalion

Support units
Engineer
Recon
Signal
Anti-Tank

In 1936, there was only the 1st Cavalry Brigade (2 to 4 cavalry battalions).

It wasn't until 1939, that a Cavalry Division was formed. And even then, those units were broken up to bring the Recon battalions in the Infantry divisions up to strength. The Cavalry units were given several reserve units and fought in minor engagements in East Prussia and Northern Poland during the invasion of Poland. If you want to represent this division, reduce the above Cavalry Battalions to six (6), remove the Anti-Tank Battalion, the Engineer and Anti-tank support units.

In Feb '40, a full division was once again available, though missing some of its support units and only six (6) cavalry battalions. By Spring '41, it consisted of what is shown above.

During Barbarossa, it was used like a Motorized Division, to protect the flanks and rear of the Panzer Corps.

In Nov '41, it was withdrawn from the Eastern Front as it was felt it was no longer capable of performing its role. It was converted to the 24th Panzers, ending the cavalry arm of the German Army.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Base game limitations in regards to historical units. There are no motorized units. You have the standard units (what I call towed) that move at infantry speed, then the Self Propelled versions, that move at armor speeds. As with the ground units, the Artillery unit has 36 guns and 500 manpower (ideally a battalion should be 12 guns and 650 manpower). And the unit sizes should be adjusted. The below is based on those constraints.

German Paratrooper Division
9 x Paratrooper Battalions
Artillery Battalion (yes, I realize it cannot paradrop)

Support units
Engineer
Artillery
Anti-Tank
Anti-Aircraft (optional)

Realize this is a Luftwaffe unit, not an Army unit.

You'll notice there is no Recon or Signal support unit. The Paratrooper battalion was designed to perform these functions and operate independently. It did not gain the normal advantage when all of its battalions functioned as a group. In game terms, the Recon and Signal bonuses should be organic to the Paratrooper battalion.

While the 7th Fleiger (Air) Division was formed in July 1938, it wasn't really a division. All of its operations were small units and not until after the successes of France, was it constituted as a real division.

There was also the 1st Luftlande Sturm Regiment (three (3) battalions) formed after France and the 22nd Luftlandung (Airlanding) Infantry division. The former are glider troops, while the latter could be airlifted into a captured airfield (like the Mountain divisions). The 1st Luftlande Sturm Regiment expanded to four (4) battalions, added a Anti-Tank company and Infantry Gun company in early '41. While a bit of a stretch, you could use that to justify a second (2nd) Paratrooper Division.

Post-Barbarossa, you have to be very suspect about new divisions that are created, their capabilities and where the manpower came from. I've provided the following information for those that are curious.

In 1943, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Fallschirmjager (Parachute) divisions were formed. The 1st was the renamed 7th Fleiger. The 2nd and 3rd were new.

In late '43, the 4th Fallschirmjager division was formed, from the remnants of the two (2) Italian Paratrooper divisions. This would be the last unit I would count as real paratroopers, able to perform an airdrop.

There were nine (9) additional "Paratrooper" divisions formed from 1944 on. These were Fallschirmjager's in name only.

After Crete, Hitler felt that the role of the paratrooper had come and gone, as the element of surprise had been lost. Many games offer you an option to equip them with the heavier weapons of a Infantry division, so they can operate as a better quality Infantry division.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

I've only got the Waffen SS to do and that should complete the German divisions.

 

[Zauberelefant]

In 1936, there was only the 1st Cavalry Brigade (2 to 4 cavalry battalions).
[..]
It was converted to the 24th Panzers, ending the cavalry arm of the German Army.

Very good post, just two corrections from my side:

1st cavalry Brigade in '36 was the only autonomous cavalry branch unit, but the 18 (!) Reiterregimenter of the Wehrmacht were split up as Aufklärungsschwadronen for the infantry, called Truppen-kavallerie. While the Brigade remained Heeres-Kavallerie.
Also, infantry Regiments had a Reiterzug (Platoon) for recon and messages.

And while 1. Kavallerie division got disbanded in '42, the OKW quickly realized that cavalry was needed in Russia and formed 3 kavalleriebrigaden (divisions in all but Name) for all Army groups in the eastern front.
In 43, 2 additional cossack Divisions we're formed and the waffen-SS had two cavalry divisions of its own.
Hence, from 42 onwards, the cavalry branch Expanded and grew more important.

But nice work! I hate that cavalry Gerd the ahistorical short straw in hoi4.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

And while 1. Kavallerie division got disbanded in '42, the OKW quickly realized that cavalry was needed in Russia and formed 3 kavalleriebrigaden (divisions in all but Name) for all Army groups in the eastern front.
In 43, 2 additional cossack Divisions we're formed and the waffen-SS had two cavalry divisions of its own.
Hence, from 42 onwards, the cavalry branch Expanded and grew more important.

I don' t have any information noted on the kavalleriebrigaden, probably because of the unit size. Can you point me to a source for that info? Per forum rules, you can't reference outside links, from what I remember. Or are these the 3rd and 4th Cavalry Brigades formed in 1944?

The Cossacks were eventually transferred to the Waffen SS, so I lumped them in with them.

The Waffen SS formed several "cavalry divisions" from '42-'45. These, along with the two Cossack divisions and the two Cavalry Brigades were designed for security and anti-partisan duty. Much like the infantry "security" divisions, I don't consider them front line divisions. Of course players can build them in the game if they want. But they would be more like three (3) to six (6) cavalry battalions and a MP support company.

Hence I wouldn't agree that the cavalry branch expanded and grew more important from '42 onwards. There may have been more men riding horses, but they weren't cavalry.

 

[Zauberelefant]

I don' t have any information noted on the kavalleriebrigaden, probably because of the unit size. Can you point me to a source for that info? Per forum rules, you can't reference outside links, from what I remember. Or are these the 3rd and 4th Cavalry Brigades formed in 1944?

The Cossacks were eventually transferred to the Waffen SS, so I lumped them in with them.

The Waffen SS formed several "cavalry divisions" from '42-'45. These, along with the two Cossack divisions and the two Cavalry Brigades were designed for security and anti-partisan duty. Much like the infantry "security" divisions, I don't consider them front line divisions. Of course players can build them in the game if they want. But they would be more like three (3) to six (6) cavalry battalions and a MP support company.

Hence I wouldn't agree that the cavalry branch expanded and grew more important from '42 onwards. There may have been more men riding horses, but they weren't cavalry.

Thanks for your questions.
My source was the German book "die Geschichte der deutschen Kavallerie 1919-45" by Klaus Christian Richter, a tremendous source of Info.

I was referring to the Wehrmacht's three Kavallerie Regimenter (Nord, Mitte, Süd) formed in 43, These later Expanded into 3. And 4. Kavallerie brigades and in '45, in hungary, they formed I. Kavallerie Korps.

These we're direct successors to the Reichswehr cavalry and so 'true' cavalry, bearing the traditions of imperial regiments.
I would argue that the reinstitution of the
Cavalry branch in '43 resulted in more cavalry regiments than 1. Kav-Div Had, and the addition of Waffen SS and cossacks (nominally SS, but unser Army control in practice) was a late validation of the cavalry role in the east.

While I cannot say much on SS and cossacks Units (wrong book), the Kavallerie regiments of '43 included:

Support
AT
Pioneers
Artillery

And 2 Abteilungen (battalions) as Line troops.

I have to Go to bed now, but I Hope this helps a bit. Please ask further questions If you like!

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Waffen SS - Part One

Base game limitations in regards to historical units. There are no motorized units. You have the standard units (what I call towed) that move at infantry speed, then the Self Propelled versions, that move at armor speeds. As with the ground units, the Artillery unit has 36 guns and 500 manpower (ideally a battalion should be 12 guns and 650 manpower). And the unit sizes should be adjusted. The below is based on those constraints.

German SS Motorized Division
9 x Motorized Inf Battalions
1 x Motorized Inf Battalion (ie Motorcycle Bn, a unit we don't have)
SP AntiTank Battalion
SP Artillery Battalion
SP AntiAir Battalion

Support units
Engineer
Recon
Artillery
Signal
Field Hospital

The German Army (Heer) was not a big fan of the SS having combat units. In the early years (thru 1940), it was in a position to block the manpower the SS received as well as the acquisition of heavy weapons. Wasn't until 1941, that this stranglehold had diminished (though now the disputes were about assignments, size and organization). The commanders and senior officers of these early divisions were largely experienced Army officers, who for personal, career or political reasons had transferred to the SS. Former Army NCOs also made up part of the junior SS Officer Corp, majority which came from SS Junker Cadet schools.

There were three (3) early divisions, that should be considered elite. The normal method of requiring combat experience to gain the veteran status works just fine, due to the way they were raised.

In Oct 1939, the SS Division Totenkopf was formed from camp guards, who had received basic military training. They were armed with former Czech weapons and operated in France. During 1940 - 41, they received replacements from regular Waffen SS recruitment, which helped it overcome its pedigree and become one of the Waffen SS elite divisions. Eventually became the 3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf".

In April 1940, the SS Division Verfugungstruppe (SS-VT) was formed from paramilitary units within the SS (that themselves had been formed into Standarten (equiv Infantry Regiments) in earlier years). As a division, it saw combat in Netherlands and France. In Dec '40, it was renamed SS Reich Motorized Division (aka Deutschland, Reich or Das Reich). Eventually became the 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich".

In Nov 1940, the SS Germania Division was formed (cadre from Das Reich). Another division was wanted after the successes of May/Jun '40. But the Army still controlled the majority of the military recruitment within the Reich. The solution was foreign volunteers from Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Belgium and Netherlands. Over half of the total Waffen SS members were foreign volunteers or conscripts. In March 1941, was renamed SS Wiking. By April 1941, it was combat ready.

Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler (LSSAH) Motorized Brigade
3 x Motorized Inf Battalions (was a 4th Bn, but it was Hitler's bodyguard)
SP Tank Destroyer Battalion (optional)

Support units
Engineer
Recon
Artillery
Signal (optional)
AntiAir (optional)

By early 1935, the Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler (LSSAH) was a fully motorized regimental sized unit (the above without the optionals). They wanted to expand it to a division in May '39, but that was put on hold due to Poland. End of 1940, beginning of 1941, it was expanded to a Brigade (above with the optionals). After the Balkans campaign, it was again decided to expand them to a division. May '41 they received the name SS Division (mot.) Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler. But there was no time to make the expansion before Barbarossa. Not until July '42, were they withdrawn from the Eastern Front and expanded into a division. Eventually became the 1st SS Panzer Division "LSSAH".

The above four (4) units are elite Waffen SS combat units. Other than the LSSAH, they should all start no better than "trained" (though Totenkopf could start as "green") and have to earn "veteran" status through combat. The LSSAH could start as "seasoned". Because of where they got their manpower from, Totenkopf should be created from a Focus or Event. Germania (ie Wiking) should be from a Focus or Event, conditioned on Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Belgium and Netherlands being occupied.

There are three (3) other units created post Barbarossa, that could also be considered elite. 9th SS Panzer Division "Hohenstaufen", 10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg" and 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend". But that is also dependent on how post Barbarossa units are handled.

In Nov 1942, all of the above SS Motorized Divisions became SS PanzerGrenadier Divisions. Add a Panzer or Tank Destroyer Battalion (see German Motorized Divisions).

In Oct 1943, they became SS Panzer Divisions.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Waffen SS - Part Two

The following Waffen SS units were available by Barbarossa, but they should not be considered elite.

Polizei Division (standard German Infantry division)
In Oct 1939, the Polizei Division was formed from manpower drawn from national, rural and local police (now under SS control). The German Army had to initially supply the combat and combat support units. This wasn't considered a Waffen SS unit, as it did not meet the SS "standards". For that same reason, many non-German SS volunteers (especially those from Eastern Europe) were assigned to SS police units. Not until Feb '42, was it officially accepted as a Waffen SS unit (hence a name change to SS Polizei Division). Jun '43 became SS Polizei PanzerGrenadier division. Oct '43 named 4th Polizei PanzerGrenadier Division.

SS Kampfgruppe Nord (standard German Security division)
Was formed from camp guards and whatever ad-hoc units that could be found, after the capitulation of Norway. Took until Jun '41 for the division to exist. Even with captured equipment, it was short equipment and never received experienced officers. Performed badly at first (blamed on the depressing Finnish forests), but became better as the war progressed. Sep '41 called SS Division Nord. Sep '42 reorganized as SS Gebirgs (Mtn) Division Nord. In Oct '43 called 6th SS Gebirgs Division Nord.

1st SS Brigade Reichsfuhrer (standard German Security division)
Formed April '41 from camp guards. Intended to be a highly mobile and lightly armed security and police unit. Equipped with former Czech weapons and largely French motor vehicles. It was significantly more powerful than the Army's Security divisions mainly because it's second regiment was not Landesschutzen (ie militia) and was equipped with heavy weapons. Also had small units of Recon, Flak, Pioneer, Anti-Tank and Signal. Sep '41 renamed 1st SS Motorized Infantry Brigade.

2nd (mot.) Brigade Reichsfuhrer SS (standard German Security division)
Formed May '41. Similar in combat power to the Army's Security divisions (better armed infantry, but only a artillery battery, not a battalion). In early '42 was effectively disbanded, with one regiment being broken up for replacements and the other going into the Das Reich division. It was then reformed the same year with Dutch, Flemish and Norwegian volunteers and named the 2nd SS Motorized Infantry Brigade.

SS Kavallerie Regiment 1 (standard German Security division, only with 3 cavalry battalions)
SS Kavallerie Regiment 2 (standard German Security division, only with 3 cavalry battalions)
There were small (battalion size) combat capable SS cavalry units by Sep '39 that were used in Poland. After Poland and up to Mar '41, there were expansions and reorganizations, resulting in the SS Kavallerie Regiment 1 and 2 of above. They were intended to be used for rear area security and police functions. Were able to function effectively in marshy and heavily forested terrain. Aug '41 were ordered to merge and form SS Kavallerie Brigade (aka Fegelein Brigade or Kampfgruppe Fegelein). By May/Jun '42 were withdrawn and became the cadre for the SS Kavallerie Division. Oct '43 renamed 8th SS Kavallerie Division.


And that concludes the Historical German divisions.

I'll be editing one of my earlier posts, to reflect the Waffen SS units in the total division count available by Barbarossa.

 

[GSP Jr]

Thanks again for all your work on this Shaka. Happy Holidays

 

[TorAndreKongelf]

I love everything you do historically and your contribution and I will try out your Manpower mod after my current Italy campaign.

Paradox will add historically named division names in 1.5 which is very nice. And with your manpower mod with the adjusted numbers that also helps.

What I do miss now, is Artillery companies (or their correct name is batteris) you can put in regiments. And same with armor companies. As an alternative to attach battalions in divions. I have seen german late panser divisions with regiments of tank companies instead of battalions.

And also a fix for the inaccurate 36 artillery cannons in a battalion would be nice as well. I am bad at modding so I would to fix this myself. Maybe I should learn to mod.

 

[TorAndreKongelf]

Can someone tag Podcat and force him to hire Shaka to integrate all his stuff into the game?

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

What I do miss now, is Artillery companies (or their correct name is batteris) you can put in regiments. And same with armor companies. As an alternative to attach battalions in divions. I have seen german late panser divisions with regiments of tank companies instead of battalions.

Thank you for your kind words earlier. I think dealing with companies is below the scale of the game. What Paradox calls companies in the division planner, are really battalions (except for maybe two of them). If Germany is suffering enough losses, there Panzer battalions are going be understrength, which would reflect company sizes. Good enough abstraction for me.

And also a fix for the inaccurate 36 artillery cannons in a battalion would be nice as well. ...

I'm working on a mod called "Authentic Units-Artillery", which addresses that. While I realize it would be more accurate to have a artillery battalion of 12 guns, I've decided to go with an artillery "brigade" of 24 guns. That would keep it more compatible with the existing division templates in use. So your typical "7 Inf/2 Arty" would still be a 7/2, but with a more accurate 48 guns instead of 72. Still unsure about the width, as it should be reduced from 3 to 2 (for each artillery unit), but if I did so, that 7/2 could become a 7/3. I'm also adding motorized artillery units and some other changes related to anti-aircraft units.

Can someone tag Podcat and force him to hire Shaka to integrate all his stuff into the game?

LoL! PS... your check is in the mail!

 

[Herox]

The base game does not properly handle what Volksgrenadier and Volkssturm represent. Don't bother with them in the base game.

The Volksgrenadier divisions were built around a cadre of veterans and whatever they could find to flesh out the unit, including old farts and children (ie geriatrics and adolescents). So while you could use the Infantry division layout with six (6) infantry battalions, there is no unit to represent the below standard manpower.

I kinda disagree with you there. You put to much emphasis that Volksgrenadier is militia and contain mainly elderly and children. When Volksgrenadier divisions started to be fielded, 16 year old children were already being drafted in the german army, so "children" was not a volksgrenadier thing only and 40 year "old" infantrymen were already part of the army since Fall Weiss.

Volksgrenadier were basically a second rate formation based on all sorts of people and formed around a cadre of veterans as you describe correctly. But, the tiny difference between regular german infantry division and volksgrenadier division lies mostly with the infantry organization, equipment and training.



Infantry division infantry structure.

Prior to the army reform in 1944 : Three (3) regiments with three (3) battalions
After the army reform in 1944 : Three (3) regiments with two (2) battalions (in order to execute local maneuvers)

Volksgrenadier infantry structure.

Two (2) regiments with two (2) battalions




Other than this, Volksgrenadier had the same organic support assets as light howitzer and light AT guns in the infantry regiments.

Both Infantry (pre&after reform) and Volksgrenadier had the same artillery organization with 4 artillery battalions, three (3) light artillery and one (1) medium artillery (mostly 150m howitzer).

And here comes the most central difference between the infantry division and volksgrenadier. Equipment and training. Volksgrenadier were mostly outfitted with obsolete and/or foreign equipment which was leftovers. Volksgrenadier was an infantry divison that was basically poorly equipped and not trained to the same standards as it was in the Heer. but a standing infantry formation non the less and used numerous times in defensive battles and offensives.

I agree Volksturm is a battalion size militia and the mechanic you describe suits it very well, but not for the volksgrenadier as these are still an infantry formation and is well represented ingame as potential coastal defence, garrisons, reinforcements, followup etc etc. There is also not lack of obsolete equipment to field such forces.

That said and what I wrote above was the intended goal, the ambition of some sorts. That there were deviation from what was decided on a paper did of course happen.

PS! I totally agree with your opinion regarding artillery size and I look forward to try your mod.