Historical Division

[AHappyCub]

Hey guys, this is my first threads so please be kind
I'm currently playing USA in Kaiserreich (No Civil war) and I was planning to build my divisions based on historical ones, I already have the Infantry Division from the HoI4 wikia but not the others like Tank or Marine division. So I was wondering that maybe someone can give me the layout (and maybe some background for it)

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Bear in mind that the historical divisions are not as efficient in the game as other designs. Hear are the layouts you requested based on the limitations of the base game.

US Infantry Division
9 x Infantry Battalions (should be motorized)
1 x Artillery Battalion
1 x AntiTank Battalion
1 x Tank Destroyer Battalion
1 x AntiAir Battalion (attached)
1 x Tank Battalion (attached)
Support units
Engineer
Recon
Artillery
AntiAir
Field Hospital

Note that while the Infantry battalions should be motorized, there are no equivalent motorized versions for the Artillery, AntiTank, AntiAir and Tank Destroyer battalions. So you could just use Infantry battalions until you built Self Propelled versions for them. The AntiAir and Tank battalions can be added at a later date.

In the European (ETO) and Mediterranean (MTO) theaters, the US had forty-two (42) Infantry divisions. One of those should be with Mountain Infantry (ie the 10th Mountain Division). Another twenty (20) Infantry divisions were in the Pacific (PTO) theater.

There were a large number of separate infantry, paratrooper and glider regiments and battalions. In Kaiserreich, a six (6) battalion division of garrison units can represent those. Build as many or as few of those as you like. Sixteen (16) battalions (ie 3 "divisions") fought in the ETO. Eight (8) battalions (ie 1 "division" fought in the PTO. These are not meant to be frontline combat units, rather they were used as garrisons or to guard the lines of communications.

There are also six (6) Ranger battalions (5 in ETO/MTO and 1 in PTO) and the First Special Service Force (roughly two battalion equivalents). I believe they are below the scale of the game in terms of being represented as units. But if you really, really want them, put them in as a "division" of two (2) mountain battalions. And they should be at least seasoned, if not veterans. But that is something you can't ensure in the game.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

US Armor Divisions
3 x Tank Battalions (should be mediums)
3 x Motorized Battalions (should be mechanized)
1 x SP Tank Destroyer Bn (optional)
1 x SP Artillery Battalion
1 x SP AntiAir Battalion (optional)
Support Units
Engineer
Recon
Maintenance
Signal
Field Hospital

The US has fourteen (14) of these, none serving in the PTO.

There was an earlier version, known as a "heavy" division. Two (2) divisions (2nd and the 3rd) retained that original organization. You can blame the British, since they were the one's suggesting that it be retained. To model them ...

3 x Tank Battalions becomes
6 x Tank Battalions (4 medium and 2 light)

Everything else stays the same.


Finally, there are five (5) Airborne divisions and six (6) Marine divisions. I'll post them later (sorry Chesty).

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

US Marine Division
9 x Marine Battalions
1 x Paratrooper Battalion (optional)
1 x Artillery Battalion
1 x Artillery Battalion (optional)
1 x Light Tank Battalion (can upgrade to Medium)
1 x AntiAircraft Battalion (optional)

Support units
Engineer
Artillery (remove when add the optional Support AntiTank unit)
Maintenance
Field Hospital
AntiTank (optional)
Logistics (optional)

Pre-War the US Marines had two (2) divisions and some provisional brigades and battalions. The above, without the optional units, reflects those. Only the early battles in the Pacific Theater were fought under that organization. Over the next few years, there were changes made, which are shown by the "optional" unit choices above. In addition, a third Division was added.

In addition to the three (3) Paratrooper Battalions (4th one formed in 1943), there were four (4) Raider Battalions. I believe the Raider units are below the scale of the units represented in HoI4 (maybe events could reflect them?). The Paratrooper units were pulled from the divisions in 1943 to form the 1st Para Regiment. You could use a HoI4 division for them.

In 1944, the Raiders were used to form a new division (4th MarDiv) and the Paratroopers were used to form another division (5th MarDiv). Later that same year, another new division was formed (6th MarDiv) from existing smaller units already overseas.

US Marine Defense Battalion
These were units designed to provide island garrisons and coastal defense of naval bases in the Pacific. Midway, Johnston, Palmyra, Wake and Hawaii. Later Fiji, New Hebrides and Samoa. Were meant to hold off raids, not invasions. Seven (7) existed pre-war, with another thirteen (13) raised during the war. Except for five (5) of them, all saw some form of combat.

AntiAircraft Battalion
Coastal Fort
Kaiserreich Garrison battalion (optional)

Only six (6) of them received provisional infantry and armor units (the optional unit above).

 

[Quanzar]

Nice oob, do you have the other majors as well ?

 

[The Balbinater]

Nice oob, do you have the other majors as well ?

old post but a goodie-->

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?blogs/divisions-of-the-regio-esercito-in-wwii.78/

divisions of the regio esercito for Italy

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Nice oob, do you have the other majors as well ?

Yes I do. Though some nations are difficult to put together from lack of reliable sources available to me.

 

[Forster]

I'll bite. Could you post them here?

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

I'll bite. Could you post them here?

Yes, I will. I was thinking about making a new thread, so as not to hijack this one. Either way, I will post what I have.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

I'll bite. Could you post them here?

I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll be creating new threads with that information. The first one is for Germany. You can find it here.

 

[AHappyCub]

I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll be creating new threads with that information. The first one is for Germany. You can find it here.

I don't really mind if you did, it will be even easier for me

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Historical Divisions - US

Division Summary

Note the European/Mediterranean Theater count should be 67, not 66. Error is in the Infantry count, will look for it at a later date.

For the "Garrison" units, Ranger Battalions, Marine Raiders, ParaMarines and Marine Defense battalions, please refer to the detail above.

 

[Future_Cyborg64]

Historical Divisions - US

Division Summary

View attachment 324287

Note the European/Mediterranean Theater count should be 67, not 66. Error is in the Infantry count, will look for it at a later date.

For the "Garrison" units, Ranger Battalions, Marine Raiders, ParaMarines and Marine Defense battalions, please refer to the detail above.

I have also been looking for the historical US Divisions, and while some of the division are easy to setup the other divisions like Ranger and Airborne I have not found the right setup how would you build those?

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

I have also been looking for the historical US Divisions, and while some of the division are easy to setup the other divisions like Ranger and Airborne I have not found the right setup how would you build those?

Regarding the Rangers, I'll copy what I said in the Infantry Division posting (second one in this thread).

There are also six (6) Ranger battalions (5 in ETO/MTO and 1 in PTO) and the First Special Service Force (roughly two battalion equivalents). I believe they are below the scale of the game in terms of being represented as units. But if you really, really want them, put them in as a "division" of two (2) mountain battalions. And they should be at least seasoned, if not veterans. But that is something you can't ensure in the game.

You're right, I forgot to list anything about the US Airborne. I'll post it shortly.

 

[Future_Cyborg64]

Okay I missed that thanks!

 

[Axe99]

In case it helps, a couple of good sites when chasing down OOB info are:

http://www.niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm

and

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/nafziger.asp (full credit to @Meglok for putting me onto the second not so long ago ).

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

US Airborne Division
6 x Paratrooper Battalions (actually Glider battalions)
3 x Paratrooper Battalions
0-3 x Paratrooper Battalions (optional)

Support units
Engineer
Artillery
AntiTank (optional)

Anti-Tank support unit was included because there should be 28 artillery pieces, along with a 37mm AT battery and a AA battery.

In 1939, the US started working on the concept of "air infantry". In Sept '40, it created its first Paratrooper Battalion. The German success in Holland '40 and seizure of Crete in '41 increased the priority of creating a airborne concept.

In July '42 a TOE for a glidercentric division was created. The 82nd Infantry division was converted and the 101st Airborne was created. While the 82nd Airborne had two (2) Paratrooper regiments (6 bn's) and one (1) Glider Regiment (3 bn's), the 101st and three (3) additional divisions (11th, 17th and 13th raised 1943) followed the above TOE. The intent was to have a lightly armed force, capable of rapidly seizing objectives (by air), quickly replaced by heavier armed follow up divisions.

In practice, over the next two (2) years, additional Para or Glider battalions and/or regiments where attached as needed (on D-Day, the 101st had 6 Glider and 6 Para battalions). Within the divisions, some of them cross trained the Glider troops to perform as Paratroopers and vice versa. The first division drop was in Sicily 1943.

Note that the Glider battalions were initially just converted mechanized infantry and received no extra pay or specialized training (riding a glider is just like riding a half-track, right?). On the other hand, the paratroopers were volunteers and received extra pay. Between Salerno and D-Day, the attitude towards Glider Infantry changed (probably because some perfumed prince upon taking this "safe" mode of transport, experienced how violent the glider ride was and that it was going to land by crashing). They never got equal pay, but it did improve.
At the end of the war, the Glider regiments were removed from the Para divisions and the Glider Infantry converted to Paratroopers. It seems that those who did both preferred jumping from a plane vs crashing in one.

By Dec '44, a new TOE was published, reflecting the changes that had occurred over the years. Now two (2) Paratrooper regiments (6 bn's) and one (1) Glider regiment (2 bn's). Also additional artillery for the 2nd Para regiment (which we cannot currently reflect in the game).

Of the five (5) Airborne divisions, four (4) served in the European/Mediterranean theater, one (1) in the Pacific.

 

[Meglok]

@Axe99 another source is Helion and Company Publishing out of the UK. They specialize in military history and oobs.
www.helion.co.uk
You can sometimes find their stuff for resale online.

 

[Axe99]

@Axe99 another source is Helion and Company Publishing out of the UK. They specialize in military history and oobs.
www.helion.co.uk
You can sometimes find their stuff for resale online.

Cheers Meglok .