Historical division size

[Lord Tim]

Here’s some information for some of the major powers. I’m basing it on the battalion or an armies terminological equivalent, as they are quite similar in size for most armies. Almost all the infantry battalions have 500-700 men with mortars, machine guns, and a few antitank guns as support weapons. Tank battalions range from 40-60 tanks and usually have only a few other vehicles.

US Infantry Division:
9 Infantry battalions. 54 105mm howitzers, 12 155mm howitzers. It would usually have several battalions attached such as tank, tank destroyer, armoured cavalry or AA units.

US Armoured Division:
3 Tank battalions, 3 armoured infantry battalions. 1 Engineer battalion, 1 armoured cavalry battalion, 54 SP howitzers. It would usually have a tank destroyer battalion attached.

US Marine division:
9 Marine battalions, 1 Marine engineer battalion, 1 amphibious tank battalion, 2 amphibious transport battalions, 1 tank battalion, 54 75mm howitzers, 18 105mm howitzers.

British Infantry Division (Commonwealth units have similar organisations):
9 infantry battalions, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 engineer battalion, 1 AA battalion, 1 AT battalion, 72 25pdr howitzers.

British armoured division, 1940-42:
6 tank battalions, 3 motor infantry battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 AT battalion, 1 AA battalion, 24 25pdr howitzers.

British armoured division, 1943+:
3 tank battalions, 4 infantry battalions, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 SPAT battalion, 1 AA battalion, 1 engineer battalion, 24 25pdr howitzers, 24 25pdr SP howitzers.

German infantry division, 1939-1943:
9 infantry battalions, 1 AT battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 engineer battalion, 36 105mm howitzers, 12 150mm howitzers.

German infantry division, 1943-45:
7 infantry battalions, 1 AT battalion (some SP guns), 1 engineer battalion, 36 105mm howitzers, 12 150mm howitzers.

Panzer division, 1939-40:
4 tank battalions, 4 motorised infantry battalions, 1 AT battalion, 1 engineer battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 24 105mm howitzers.

Panzer division, 1941-43:
3 tank battalions, 6 motor/mechanised infantry battalions, 1 AT battalion, 1 engineer battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 24 105mm howitzers, 12 150mm howitzers.

Panzer division, 1944-45:
2 tank battalions, 6 motor/mechanised infantry battalions, 1 AT battalion (mostly SP), 1 engineer battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 AA battalion, 12 105mm howitzers, 12 105mm SP Howitzers, 12 150mm howitzers.

Panzer Grenadier division:
6 motorised infantry battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 1 SP AT battalion, 1 AA battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 12 105mm SP howitzers, 12 150mm howitzers.

Italian infantry division:
6 infantry battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 1 AA battalion, 1 AT battalion, 12 100mm howitzers, 24 75mm howitzers

Italian armoured division “Ariete”:
3 tank battalions, 3 infantry battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 24 75mm howitzers, 8 105mm howitzers, 8 90mm AT guns, 20 SP guns.

Japanese infantry division Type B:
9 infantry battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 1 AT battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 36 75mm guns.

Japanese armoured division:
3 tank battalions, 3 infantry battalions, 1 AT battalion, 24 105mm howitzers, 12 150mm howitzers.

Soviet Rifle division:
9 rifle battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 1 AT battalion, 36 76mm guns, 18 122mm howitzers.

Soviet Tank Corps (closest equivalent to a foreign tank/armoured division) after late 1942:
9 tank battalions (31 tanks, so smaller than foreign ones), 6 infantry battalions, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 engineer battalion, 1 AA battalion, 1 SP AT battalion, 18 heavy assault guns (SU 152 or similar), 12 SU-76 SP artillery, 12 katyusha SP rocket launchers. Only Guards units would have all this equipment, but all would have some.

Soviet cavalry division:
9 cavalry battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 12 76mm guns.

French infantry division:
9 infantry battalions, 1 AT battalion, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 36 75mm guns, 12 105mm howitzers, 12 155mm howitzers. 1st line units would often have a light tank battalion added.

French DLM (division legere mechanique):
4 tank battalions (2lt, 2med), 3 infantry battalions, 2 armoured car battalions, 1 engineer battalion, 1 AT battalion, 24 75mm guns, 12 195 mm howitzers.

French DCR (Division Cuirasse de Reserve)
4 tank battalions (2lt, 2 hvy), 1 mechanised infantry battalion, 24 105mm howitzers

I'm still looking for information on some others - China is the biggest - but most small countries follow similar doctrines to their larger neighbours.

Hope this helps.

 

[potski]

For the reasons I mentioned about the meaning of "regiments", especially the completely different way they are organised in Britain and the Commonwealth to most other countries, it probably makes more sense to use battalions to compare division size/strength. Feldgrau.com says of German battalions:

Abteilungen and Bataillone ... served at the tactical level directly engaging in combat. The Abteilung was the smallest self-contained and self-sufficent combat formation. It was armed and manned to be fully able to maintain itself in combat without the support of other units. Any unit below the level of Abteilung usually did not have enough offensive or defensive firepower and support elements (Pionier, Panzerjäger, Artillery, MGs, etc), to maintain itself in a combat situation. In theory, an Abteilung organization would have between 500 and 1000 men within its ranks.

Assuming battalions of other countries are similarly self-contained, and similarly sized, then Lord Tim's break-down of different division types looks good. However, I'm not sure it is correct to have a German "Panzer Grenadier Division" type. Feldgrau.com lists only three types of German division: Infanterie, Gebirgs and Panzer [Infantry, Mountain and Armoured]. Units designated Panzergrenadier [meaning "armoured infantry"] are listed only at Regiment and Bataillon level as the infantry components of Panzer Divisions. In theory, this identified these units as mechanised, but in practice many were only motorised, as the German's weren't able to produce sufficient armoured vehicles (half-tracks etc.) to equip many of these units.

 

[AlanC9]

However, I'm not sure it is correct to have a German "Panzer Grenadier Division" type. Feldgrau.com lists only three types of German division: Infanterie, Gebirgs and Panzer [Infantry, Mountain and Armoured]. Units designated Panzergrenadier [meaning "armoured infantry"] are listed only at Regiment and Bataillon level as the infantry components of Panzer Divisions. In theory, this identified these units as mechanised, but in practice many were only motorised, as the German's weren't able to produce sufficient armoured vehicles (half-tracks etc.) to equip many of these units.

That's a problem with Feldgrau's organization. Divisions certainly were designated Panzergrenadier. I'm guessing the site's organized that way because it was really just a matter of adding more tanks to a PG division to turn it into a (late-war) Panzer division, so there was a certain degree of fungibility there. OTOH, Panzer divisions typically kept their Panzer designation even if they only had enough tanks for a Panzer Grenadier division.

 

[potski]

That's a problem with Feldgrau's organization. Divisions certainly were designated Panzergrenadier. I'm guessing the site's organized that way because it was really just a matter of adding more tanks to a PG division to turn it into a (late-war) Panzer division, so there was a certain degree of fungibility there. OTOH, Panzer divisions typically kept their Panzer designation even if they only had enough tanks for a Panzer Grenadier division.

Feldgrau.com is a very comprehensive source of information on German military units. For instance, looking at the detail on 22.Infantrie-Division (http://www.feldgrau.com/InfDiv.php?ID=22), including the reference section at the end. It's certainly impressive. Amongst the hundreds of divisions listed not one is described as "Panzergrenadier". In the absence of any other source to support what you say, respectfully, I'd stick with them.

I think you are confusing Grenadier units, which was the description used late war for Infantry (mot) regiments and battalions. From Feldgrau again:

Grenadier: An historic German term often used to refer to heavy infantry units, originally refering to the task and type of weapon carried, in this case hand thrown explosives (now known as grenades). Early in WWII used to refer to certain units to signify their elite status. On 15th October 1942 all German regular infantry regiments were renamed as Grenadier-Regimenter in the hopes of increasing their morale by establishing links to their elite counter-part units of the past. Grenadier was also used later in WWII to refer to the basic level of German soldier in an infantry unit. Instead of simply being a Gefreiter one became a Grenadier.

In 1940 when operating in Holland 22.Infanterie-Division (Luftlande) consisted of Infanterie-Regimenter 16, 47 and 65. In 1942 after operating in the Crimea: Grenadier-Regimenter 16, 47 and 65. Obviously, the same three regiments just renamed. It wouldn't be surprising if some referred to 22.Infanterie-Division from then on unofficially as a "Grenadier" Division, but definitely not "Panzergrenadier".

 

[PNEawf]

The problem here is that you have used one source and believed it wholeheartedly: many German units in WW II were designated Panzergrenadier. I suggest you look at different sources rather than taking one single source as the font of all wisdom.

 

[unmerged(21640)]

So you give the Italians half as many divisions in the initial setup. New divisions take care of themselves, since while the Italian divisions may be twice as large as they should be, they also cost twice as much as they should. Not a big problem.

Besides, if you want to build smaller, cheaper infantry divisions you can, right now, within the construct of the game: THEY'RE CALLED MILITIA :rofl:

 

[unmerged(19284)]

Therefore I adopted the HSR SS-brigade in my vanilla Hoi2.

Sorry to interrupt/bump this thread. I'm playing DD (1.1) and I would like to implement the SS-brigade from HSR - can it be done in DD (vanilla)? And if so, how?

 

[unmerged(43759)]

I a lot of it depended on the country. I pretty much know about US though. For instance, the breakdown in the US went like this. A division was approximently 10,00 men, broken down into 4 regiments with two batallions to each one.

There were two regiments to each brigade, which for a few exceptions, were not that insturmental as far as combat units with the exception of adminstrative duties.

The US Marine Corp was and still is a bit different in their break down. It depended on the objective's size etc, then they would take battallions etc and form their divisions around that, for their command was a bit more flexible for that. If I recall correctly, the US Marine Corp hardly exceeded 500,000 men at one given time, and is smallest of the major fighting forces in the US Military, thus their motto "The few, the proud and the brave."

OK so I don't have spell check.