Historical Determinism

[unmerged(25936)]

My understanding is the nature of the new "event" system will increase the number of "ahistorical" games from HoI2 and HoI1.

I'm not interested in this. My strong preference is for a game to play out roughly historical up until the point that my own actions have a strong impact (that is, at least until the opening of war)

In HoI2 I could go into the event files and ensure 100% chance for historical options. This ensured a rigid and, in my view, correct opening to every grand campaign (i.e. Germany always annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia, GB always allied Poland). Will any similiar option be available to me in HoI3 or will I simply have to hope/pray for the best every new campaign?

 

[LeeDub]

You can always mod the AI to always choose historical options.

 

[kingterranes]

hu? Now its even more historical as the prerequisites for the event to trigger is now needed, its still easy to launch an attack on the sep1st, at least i think so :wacko:

 

[finyou2]

You could change decisions to events...

 

[Tasmosunt]

I believe it is possible to remove the decisions, and replace them with events. So you should be able to modify the game to suit this preference.

 

[unmerged(45977)]

I guess there will be mods out there to make the events in HoI3 look more like HoI2. I would welcome it actually. I don't want to see a messed up campaign where the allies left Poland in the dark or some other critical thing was missing.

 

[unmerged(25936)]

hu? Now its even more historical as the prerequisites for the event to trigger is now needed, its still easy to launch an attack on the sep1st, at least i think so :wacko:

From Lothos' review of HoI3

Playing as Germany the major events preceding World War II such as the Annexation of Austria and the Claiming of the Sudetenland have all been migrated into Decisions which give the ability for these actions to take place causing an alternative time line other than the historical one.

The issue is, of course, that I don't want an alternative time line. Certainly not leading up to war.

 

[unmerged(87984)]

You will have the ability to play completely historical if you wish, and I think that with improved AI and game mechanics you will see even more realistical outcomes than in previous HoI incarnations without a rigid event system. Which will be absolutely nice if it works

 

[dublish]

The issue is, of course, that I don't want an alternative time line. Certainly not leading up to war.

Play the 1939 scenario.

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

I am also for quite a strict historical development in the game. And I hope that the more elaborate game mechanics will lead to more plausible outcomes.

It would be great to see that Japanese invasion to the US is unthinkable due to logistics and army size matters. Japan should have the possibility to win the war by other means, for example by crushing US national unity.

 

[sbr]

Play the 1939 scenario.

*puts gold star on dublish's chart*

 

[Hagar]

*puts gold star on dublish's chart*

+1. Besides, I do like things to remain just that little unpredictable. I'm hardly a fan of a fantasy scenario or such (like Scandinavia being formed or Holland and Belgium becoming part of France in 1938 all of a sudden), but ahistorically, 100% plausible is perfectly fine by me. That way it still remains a bit of a gamble when playing your version of Hitler's game of bluff. The way we do it in CORE, basically. So historically 9 times out of 10 is more than enough for me.

 

[Karlburg]

It's sort of like the way wargames play out the invasion of poland and france where they sell the French and Polish armies way short, so the Germans roll over them every time. I don't see why these are even played out if there aren't any other outcomes than easy wins for the Germans. I don't really like historical determinism, so I enjoy seeing strange(but reasonable) outcomes.

 

[Will Lucky]

It's almost certain a mod will be developed and released that will make the game more historical in every way anyway. Personally I like the idea of more ahistorical timelines as I have an interest in those and here's hoping HOI3 provokes some inspiration.

 

[unmerged(45977)]

It's sort of like the way wargames play out the invasion of poland and france where they sell the French and Polish armies way short, so the Germans roll over them every time. I don't see why these are even played out if there aren't any other outcomes than easy wins for the Germans. I don't really like historical determinism, so I enjoy seeing strange(but reasonable) outcomes.

So do you think it's a good idea to make the invasion of France and Poland hard for Germany? I don't even want to imagine how Barbarossa would unfold.

 

[Alexander Seil]

The issue is, of course, that I don't want an alternative time line. Certainly not leading up to war.

That's why there's a 1939 scenario :wacko:

EDIT: dublish'd

 

[unmerged(138733)]

Having both the Historical and the alternate possibilities is the best way since we all know how the real conflict went down originally. How many time can one as germany defeat france and poland, then later in the game get crushed by the allies. So an alternative with decisions is not a bad option for me.

 

[unmerged(140265)]

I don't think it's particularly like that the timeline will diverge hugely without the player's involvement, to be honest. It was a very rare event in HoI2 for things to go wrong if the player didn't go in and do it themselves. The AI will go for the objectives it's been told in much the same way every time. Anschluss might be off by a week or a month sometimes but I really would be surprised if things going totally nuts was in any way a regular occurance.

 

[wright1331]

it's sort of like the way wargames play out the invasion of poland and france where they sell the french and polish armies way short, so the germans roll over them every time. I don't see why these are even played out if there aren't any other outcomes than easy wins for the germans. I don't really like historical determinism, so i enjoy seeing strange(but reasonable) outcomes.

+1

Having both the Historical and the alternate possibilities is the best way since we all know how the real conflict went down originally. How many time can one as germany defeat france and poland, then later in the game get crushed by the allies. So an alternative with decisions is not a bad option for me.

agreed, it makes the replayability of the game a lot better. If you know something is gonna happen 100% of the time, it loses its fun factor

 

[Mr. Domino]

Did the change from events to decisions really change that much besides timing? IIRC Johan posted the annexation of austria decision: the AI chance was 100%. In Hoi2 there was at least a 1-10% the various german demands would not be initiated by germany or that the Czechs/Poles/Austrians would respond differently.

If you assume AI germany will always enact an annexation of austria via decision, the question then becomes how much will change if it manages to fulfill the triggers in 1936, and if the AI should choose to perform it ahistorically early. Maybe annexing austria in 1936 is the dumb choice, which helps start the war earlier at Germany's disadvantage, or maybe the conditions for triggering the decision are difficult to get early in game. I don't think we know enough right now to tell one way or another.