Does anyone have any ideas or information? Comments in the Chinese template document say that most Chinese divisions were brigade-sized compared to other Allied armies, but not much else.
Historical Chinese division templates
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From my own research, the Republic of China fielded three kinds of divisions.
The first kind of division is just a standard infantry division and would consist of four regiments of three battalions each. On paper, these divisions were to have around 10,000 men, but in reality there were more like 5,000 to 6,000 men. Sometimes an artillery battalion or even a regiment would be attached to them, but as there was very little artillery to go around they were usually supplemented by mortars. Maybe this could be simulated with support artillery? In addition, they should have engineer, medical, logistics, and signal support.
The second kind of infantry division was the German-trained infantry division. This was supposed to be the new standard and plenty of divisions following this model were planned, but the program was cut short due to the Japanese invasion and not many were organized. These divisions were usually kept around the standard 10,000 men and also consisted of four regiments of three battalions each. Each infantry regiment was to have an artillery company with six guns each and division headquarters was to have its own artillery battalion as well, with a total of about thirty guns per division. Division headquarters also had an anti-tank company and an anti-air company that could be simulated via support anti-tank and support anti-air. In addition, support should include recon, signal, engineer, and medical.
WW2 Weapons says that the Republic of China also fielded cavalry divisions consisting of four cavalry regiments each, but I haven't seen any other sources mention their organization.
Independent brigades were also deployed in great numbers.
The first kind of division is just a standard infantry division and would consist of four regiments of three battalions each. On paper, these divisions were to have around 10,000 men, but in reality there were more like 5,000 to 6,000 men. Sometimes an artillery battalion or even a regiment would be attached to them, but as there was very little artillery to go around they were usually supplemented by mortars. Maybe this could be simulated with support artillery? In addition, they should have engineer, medical, logistics, and signal support.
The second kind of infantry division was the German-trained infantry division. This was supposed to be the new standard and plenty of divisions following this model were planned, but the program was cut short due to the Japanese invasion and not many were organized. These divisions were usually kept around the standard 10,000 men and also consisted of four regiments of three battalions each. Each infantry regiment was to have an artillery company with six guns each and division headquarters was to have its own artillery battalion as well, with a total of about thirty guns per division. Division headquarters also had an anti-tank company and an anti-air company that could be simulated via support anti-tank and support anti-air. In addition, support should include recon, signal, engineer, and medical.
WW2 Weapons says that the Republic of China also fielded cavalry divisions consisting of four cavalry regiments each, but I haven't seen any other sources mention their organization.
Independent brigades were also deployed in great numbers.
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Thanks - I think this is sort of reflected in the infantry templates in vanilla at the moment, but certainly not the support companies.
It's much more difficult to find information on Chinese divisions than the other Allied powers, so this was indeed very helpful.
It's much more difficult to find information on Chinese divisions than the other Allied powers, so this was indeed very helpful.
Anytime. I apologize if anything is incorrect. If I have any new info, I'll post it.
I have posted some information on the Chinese Divisions within the Historical Divisions - Japan thread. You can find that here.
Reliable sources in English are not easy to find.
Reliable sources in English are not easy to find.
I dug around Best China's digitalized archive that I recently discovered and found these data:
The old 19th Year Type Divisions (19th year of the republican calendar = 1930) was the standard layouts established after the Central Plains War
Source: https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335578r-d-_Zw#a5l
Type A divisions consists of 3 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 6 regiments), 1 cavalry company, 1 artillery battalion (3 field/mountain artillery companies with 4 pieces each), 1 engineer battalion (3 engineer companies and 1 signal company), 1 logistics battalion (2 companies), and 1 specialist(?) company (特務連).
It has between 12568 and 12661 men, 876 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 48)
Weapons include 606 handguns, 108 machine guns, 5976 rifles, 1840 carbines, 36 infantry guns, no heavy artillery, and 12 pieces of field/mountain guns in total. (p. 54)
Type B divisions consists of 2 infantry brigades (3 regiments each for a total of 6 regiments), the rest are same as the Type A divisions.
It has between 12531 and 12624 men, 863 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 49)
Weapons include 600 handguns, 108 machine guns, 5976 rifles, 1823 carbines, 36 infantry guns, no heavy artillery, and 12 pieces of field/mountain guns in total. (p. 55)
Type C divisions consists of 2 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 4 regiments), 1 cavalry company, 1 artillery battalion, 1 engineer battalion (2 engineer companies and 1 signal company), 1 logistics company, and 1 specialist(?) company.
It has between 8765 and 8858 men, 626 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 50)
Weapons include 420 handguns, 72 machine guns, 4060 rifles, 1301 carbines, 24 infantry guns, no heavy artillery, and 12 pieces of field/mountain guns in total. (p. 56)
Regardless of the division layout, an infantry regiment consists of 1 signal platoon, 1 infantry gun company, and 3 battalions. Each battalion has 1 machine gun company and 3 infantry companies. (pp. 14-16)
Cavalry divisions consists of 2 cavalry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 4 regiments), 1 machine gun company, 1 mortar company, and 1 specialist(?) company.
Each brigade has a signal platoon, a light machine gun company and a machine gun company. (p. 17)
It has 4595 men, 358 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 57)
Weapons include 207 handguns, 2997 carbines, 120 rifle, 18 machine guns, 12 light machine guns, and 6 mortars. (p. 58)
These are, presumably, the layouts of "old standard" Chinese divisions in 1936.
Around 1935, new division layouts were established under the influence of German advisors:
Rearranged Divisions (整理師)
Source: https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/13357108wRJw3c#5eF
This is the reserve division that cut a lot of corners in the support department, and doesn't even have a standing logistics component.
A Rearranged Division consists of 2 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 2 regiments), 1 cavalry company (4 platoons), 1 artillery battalion (3 artillery companies with 4 pieces each and a signal platoon), 1 engineer company, 1 signal company (with a radio), a divisional hospital and 1 specialist(?) company.
Each regiment has a machine gun company (6 HMG), a mortar company (4 mortars), a signal platoon, and 3 infantry battalions. (p. 4)
It has 8257 men, 475 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 19)
Reorganized Divisions (調整師)
Source: https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335718s=Ba=J6#62J
This is the standing division post-reform, and the German trained divisions were based on this template
A Reorganized Division consists of 2 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 2 regiments), 1 cavalry company (3 platoons + 1 MG platoon with 3 HMG), 1 artillery battalion (3 artillery companies with 4 pieces each and a signal platoon), 1 engineer battalion (3 engineer companies and 1 signal platoon), 1 signal battalion (2 telephone companies and 1 radio platoon) 1 logistics battalion (2 companies), a medical team (a divisional hospital during peacetime) and 1 specialist(?) company.
Each regiment has a signal company and 3 infantry battalions, each battalion has a machine gun company (6 HMG), a mortar platoon (2 mortars), and 3 infantry companies. (p. 4)
It has between 11026 and 10852 men, 616-619 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 28)
Later Cavalry Divisions
I can't find when the layout was changed, but they were three-regiment units by 1936, as seen in "An Argument for Cavalry Divisions" https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335838-UGR0JA#86C and this list of commanding officers https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335900E5N_wo4#d7l
Warlord armies didn't always follow the templates made in Nanjing, and we knew that the armies of Guangdong and Sichuan had to be reorganized after Nanjing took control of them. Sometimes, units belonging to a warlord could be massively oversized, like the 5th Cavalry Division commanded by Ma Buqing (Xibei San Ma) in the last link, the especially fat column in the second row, which had a whooping number of 8 regiments under its command! This was a way for the warlords to get by Nanjing's disarmament orders without openly defying them.
The old 19th Year Type Divisions (19th year of the republican calendar = 1930) was the standard layouts established after the Central Plains War
Source: https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335578r-d-_Zw#a5l
Type A divisions consists of 3 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 6 regiments), 1 cavalry company, 1 artillery battalion (3 field/mountain artillery companies with 4 pieces each), 1 engineer battalion (3 engineer companies and 1 signal company), 1 logistics battalion (2 companies), and 1 specialist(?) company (特務連).
It has between 12568 and 12661 men, 876 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 48)
Weapons include 606 handguns, 108 machine guns, 5976 rifles, 1840 carbines, 36 infantry guns, no heavy artillery, and 12 pieces of field/mountain guns in total. (p. 54)
Type B divisions consists of 2 infantry brigades (3 regiments each for a total of 6 regiments), the rest are same as the Type A divisions.
It has between 12531 and 12624 men, 863 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 49)
Weapons include 600 handguns, 108 machine guns, 5976 rifles, 1823 carbines, 36 infantry guns, no heavy artillery, and 12 pieces of field/mountain guns in total. (p. 55)
Type C divisions consists of 2 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 4 regiments), 1 cavalry company, 1 artillery battalion, 1 engineer battalion (2 engineer companies and 1 signal company), 1 logistics company, and 1 specialist(?) company.
It has between 8765 and 8858 men, 626 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 50)
Weapons include 420 handguns, 72 machine guns, 4060 rifles, 1301 carbines, 24 infantry guns, no heavy artillery, and 12 pieces of field/mountain guns in total. (p. 56)
Regardless of the division layout, an infantry regiment consists of 1 signal platoon, 1 infantry gun company, and 3 battalions. Each battalion has 1 machine gun company and 3 infantry companies. (pp. 14-16)
Cavalry divisions consists of 2 cavalry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 4 regiments), 1 machine gun company, 1 mortar company, and 1 specialist(?) company.
Each brigade has a signal platoon, a light machine gun company and a machine gun company. (p. 17)
It has 4595 men, 358 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 57)
Weapons include 207 handguns, 2997 carbines, 120 rifle, 18 machine guns, 12 light machine guns, and 6 mortars. (p. 58)
These are, presumably, the layouts of "old standard" Chinese divisions in 1936.
Around 1935, new division layouts were established under the influence of German advisors:
Rearranged Divisions (整理師)
Source: https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/13357108wRJw3c#5eF
This is the reserve division that cut a lot of corners in the support department, and doesn't even have a standing logistics component.
A Rearranged Division consists of 2 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 2 regiments), 1 cavalry company (4 platoons), 1 artillery battalion (3 artillery companies with 4 pieces each and a signal platoon), 1 engineer company, 1 signal company (with a radio), a divisional hospital and 1 specialist(?) company.
Each regiment has a machine gun company (6 HMG), a mortar company (4 mortars), a signal platoon, and 3 infantry battalions. (p. 4)
It has 8257 men, 475 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 19)
Reorganized Divisions (調整師)
Source: https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335718s=Ba=J6#62J
This is the standing division post-reform, and the German trained divisions were based on this template
A Reorganized Division consists of 2 infantry brigades (2 regiments each for a total of 2 regiments), 1 cavalry company (3 platoons + 1 MG platoon with 3 HMG), 1 artillery battalion (3 artillery companies with 4 pieces each and a signal platoon), 1 engineer battalion (3 engineer companies and 1 signal platoon), 1 signal battalion (2 telephone companies and 1 radio platoon) 1 logistics battalion (2 companies), a medical team (a divisional hospital during peacetime) and 1 specialist(?) company.
Each regiment has a signal company and 3 infantry battalions, each battalion has a machine gun company (6 HMG), a mortar platoon (2 mortars), and 3 infantry companies. (p. 4)
It has between 11026 and 10852 men, 616-619 of which are commissioned officers. (p. 28)
Later Cavalry Divisions
I can't find when the layout was changed, but they were three-regiment units by 1936, as seen in "An Argument for Cavalry Divisions" https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335838-UGR0JA#86C and this list of commanding officers https://ahonline.drnh.gov.tw/index.php?act=Display/image/1335900E5N_wo4#d7l
Warlord armies didn't always follow the templates made in Nanjing, and we knew that the armies of Guangdong and Sichuan had to be reorganized after Nanjing took control of them. Sometimes, units belonging to a warlord could be massively oversized, like the 5th Cavalry Division commanded by Ma Buqing (Xibei San Ma) in the last link, the especially fat column in the second row, which had a whooping number of 8 regiments under its command! This was a way for the warlords to get by Nanjing's disarmament orders without openly defying them.
Whaaaat?
The ROC would still go "REMOVE COMMIE REMOVE COMMIE FROM THE PREMISES, etc"
You can dig thru nafziger OOB collection here: http://cdm16040.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/searchterm/search This is the US Army Research Library. Warning, Nafziger was very prolific in his OOB research.
Here is another link: https://ww2-weapons.com/chinese-nationalist-army/
And here: http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/K/u/Kuomintang_Order_of_Battle.htm
Much of the information there is actually in the Osprey Men-at-Arms: The Chinese Army from 1937-49 book, which I have as a pdf. It's an excellent resource, and really helped me when making my KMT infantry sprites suggestions.
One thing that I should mention is that even though the original documents above don't have them, it appeared that by the outbreak of the war, infantry regiments were supposed to have a support artillery company with six 20 mm guns. It would also appear that these "20 mm guns" were whatever they could acquire, including "Solothurn M5-106" (Solothurn ST-5 on the wiki), Breda M1935, "Oerlikon MCS" (Probably the Oerlikon S mentioned by the wiki), and "Madsen M1935", which doesn't have a wiki page.
Do you have any additional information on the organization of the Ma and New Guangxi clique armies after the war with Japan?
A recntly published reference is Kangzhan: Guide to Chinese Ground Forces 1937-45 which i recommended to PDX as a source of special relevance to this DLC and have cited on occasion. It includes manpower and breakdown of categorized equipment returns from the time. I found the early 1937 disposition details of all the forces including component units and manpower particularly relevant from a scenario poin of view.
Since you are looking for specifically postwar informtation, the September 1945, reports in the appendix would be most relevant, but with the data organized by War Zone you would need to start with an understanding of the geographic dispositions of the forces by war zone and draw inferences .
Regarding support companies, the game will include them only if of adequate size. At the divisional level the manpower and especially equipment assigned might be treated as nominal. (One reason for the game division template to repressnt 3 Chinese divisions working ni close conjunction according to doctrine. At that size, more support companies might be cognizable. Chinese structure, at which size the support companies might be sufficient to be represented.
Since you are looking for specifically postwar informtation, the September 1945, reports in the appendix would be most relevant, but with the data organized by War Zone you would need to start with an understanding of the geographic dispositions of the forces by war zone and draw inferences .
Regarding support companies, the game will include them only if of adequate size. At the divisional level the manpower and especially equipment assigned might be treated as nominal. (One reason for the game division template to repressnt 3 Chinese divisions working ni close conjunction according to doctrine. At that size, more support companies might be cognizable. Chinese structure, at which size the support companies might be sufficient to be represented.
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No. However, I did found their rough layout (down to regiments) from 1933 and 1935, do you still want them?
I believe that the Madsen M1935 refers to this, which was very common in China.
Also, the Breda M35 was especially common in the National Revolutionary Army, it seems - they were used in anti-armor and attacking ground troops as well as in the anti-air rolei.