High to late medieval, what time and which important events?

[C.N.]

1066 is regarded as the year that the high medieval period begun. 1453 is the most important year in the transition between the late medieval and renaissance periods. (Ok some says 1492, but I disagree).
However I have no clear idea when the border between the high and late medieval periods is and what events marks it. Does anyone here have some info?

 

[Vandelay]

Period divisions are always arbitrary and more a result of a human wish to catgorize tna nay true sharp breaks in history.

That said, I´d suggest the Black Death, c. 1350 (diffent date in different parts of Europe).

 

[stnylan]

As Vandelay said it is entirely arbitrary.

However I would put the end of the Hohenstaufen and the recapture of Constantinople by the Greeks and the Fall of Acre as all being events that usher in the Late Mediaeval period.

I would say 1300 is therefore Late, 1250 is High, and the period inbetween is transition.

Though of course the division between High and Late.

Maybe another way to look at it is that I think the English Parliaments are a Late Mediaeval phenomenon, and so it the Hundred Years War (the latter could be one of the defining characteristics of the period - along with the Black Death).

 

[w_mullender]

I would draw the line around 1300 as there are many important events around that time.
-1282 The sicilian vespers ending the french domination of Sicily and making the pope look foolish
-1285 Philip 4 Augustus rises to the throne of France, effectively starting centralised government
-In 1294 Boniface 8 becomes pope, arguably one of the worst persons on that post
-Around that time the compass is introduced
-In 1305 the pope moves to Avignon
-Giotto lived from 1267 to 1337, "the father of the renaissance"
-Somewhere around 1313 Dante writes the Divina Comedia
-Around 1315 there are huge famines, starting the reducing of the population by a 3rd.

 

[Sire Philippe]

Originally posted by w_mullender
-1285 Philip 4 Augustus rises to the throne of France, effectively starting centralised government

Sorry to intervene, but it is Philippe IV le Bel, not Augustus (his grandfather, Philippe II, victorious of Bouvines)...

 

[stnylan]

Originally posted by w_mullender
-Around 1315 there are huge famines, starting the reducing of the population by a 3rd.

Between 1315 and 1317, caused by too much rain. The havests failed for 2-3 years in a two depending on location and it was .. nasty. However, the population recovered over the next 20 years or so just in time for ...

... a nice little endemic plague that kept the population depressed until the 16th century.

 

[w_mullender]

Originally posted by Sire Philippe
Sorry to intervene, but it is Philippe IV le Bel, not Augustus (his grandfather, Philippe II, victorious of Bouvines)...

You're right I always seem to mix up the various Philip's and Charles's.

 

[Aetius]

I agree with Vandalay and stnylan. The plague killed of a huge proportion of the priests necessary for medieval culture.

 

[Sire Philippe]

I think 1066 is finally a really good date for Western Europe at least. Not only for his proper event, but for all the european situation. In fact, it is for mid-11th century.

It's the final blow of viking movement. After mid-11th century, great expeditions are over, scandinavian monarchies consolidated (and they were in fact the worst ennemies of this chaotic movement), and England nor Russia took another way.

It's the start of French and English conflict. War between King of France and Duke of Normandy became a war between two kingdoms. All started here.

And in the Empire, conflict between Pope and Emperor.

 

[unmerged(9531)]

important event (not in chronological) :

1215 : magna carta
1214 : bouvines
1095 : the pope call to crusade
1204 : 4th crusade
1348-1349 = plague in france (almost one third of the population died)
~1360-1470 = hundred years wars
1419 : igniominious murder of the Good Duke of Burgundy, John the fearless.

 

[unmerged(2695)]

I agree with Vandelay. The Black Death is the demarcation line. The population loss suffered by most of Europe lead to a wholesale transformaiton of society - in everything from written language to housing. The period from 1350 to about 1480 was characterized by a stagnant population and general economic depression - and by the significant changes in military, political and economic institutions that together produced the "Early Modern Sov\ciety" of teh 16th Century.

 

[w_mullender]

Though I agree about the black death, imo around 1300 the first major breaks with the previous era appear, especially in the political, art and theological areas.

As to the start of the high medieval period. It seems 1066 is commonly accepted, although that of course is a very "english" way of looking at it. If you look from a dutch perspective it should be earlier around the year 1000 as that is the effective stop of the viking raids and the build-up of the counties which were to play a major role later on like Flanders and Holland. It also marked the end of the influence of any emperors or kings here.

 

[unmerged(9531)]

Originally posted by w_mullender


As to the start of the high medieval period. It seems 1066 is commonly accepted, although that of course is a very "english" way of looking at it. If you look from a dutch perspective it should be earlier around the year 1000 as that is the effective stop of the viking raids and the build-up of the counties which were to play a major role later on like Flanders and Holland. It also marked the end of the influence of any emperors or kings here.

i agree : it's the first time i hear that 1066 should be considered like the end of the high middle age...
and in fact, i don't think dates are really accurate when speaking about hsitorical period (except a few of them who really represent something...)

 

[Dakar]

Of course 1066 is a very english way of looking at it.
For Spain the dates would be:
High Middle Ages: From the Arab conquest (711) up to the reconquest of Toledo (1085) which ended the period of arab dominance.
Medium Middle Ages:From 1085 to 1212(battle of Las Navas de Tolosa) which opened the way for the reconquest of Andalusia. Only Grenada was left of all the arab kingdoms.
High Middle Ages:From 1212 to 1492 (End of the Reconquest and Discovery of America, really an Annus Mirabilis for Spain )

 

[Sire Philippe]

Originally posted by KriegHund
important event (not in chronological) :

1419 : igniominious murder of the Good Duke of Burgundy, John the fearless.

"un air de déjà vu "

 

[Vandelay]

Though I agree about the black death, imo around 1300 the first major breaks with the previous era appear, especially in the political, art and theological areas.

I agree - there´s always some sort of transition period in this case c.1300-1350 - a period that saw the early rennaisance in Italy (Giotto, Petrarca, Dante), the beginning of the Hundred Years War, cultivation of marginal lands in response to overpopulation etc (a Scandinavian example from this period would be the beginning trends towards a Nordic union with Magnus Eriksson, King of Sweden, Norway and Skåne) . The depopulation cused by the Black Death and the rise in costs for labour had a huge impact on the social fabric of Western Europe at least so...

If we´re looking for clean sharp breaks then:

1066 (or perhaps 1099 Fall of Jerusalem) - 1349 High Medieval
1349 - 1453/ 1492 Late Medieval

seems about right. There are regional variations of course - in Sweden the Medieval era ends in 1523 with the official break from the Kalmar Union and the ascension of the Wasa dynasty to the throne.

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

[unmerged(9531)]

Originally posted by Dakar
Of course 1066 is a very english way of looking at it.
For Spain the dates would be:
High Middle Ages: From the Arab conquest (711) up to the reconquest of Toledo (1085) which ended the period of arab dominance.
Medium Middle Ages:From 1085 to 1212(battle of Las Navas de Tolosa) which opened the way for the reconquest of Andalusia. Only Grenada was left of all the arab kingdoms.
High Middle Ages:From 1212 to 1492 (End of the Reconquest and Discovery of America, really an Annus Mirabilis for Spain )

for france i think (any french is free to say otherwise)

High Middle Ages : from the foundation of the kingdom of France (451) to the first crusade (1095)
Medium : 1095 to Philipe Augustus (first king who will not crowned his son during his life ; crushing of great vassals ; first move against england's possession in france)
late : philipe augustus to the end of the hundred years war... or the Italian wars.

 

[C.N.]

Seeing your posts, I like the around 1300 date batter. I prefer dates when the national policies of nations and the culture and worldview people changes. The black death hurted nations, but the start of the transition from a feudal to a national structure is where I would put the border.

The early to high middle ages seems to have quite definite dates in various parts of Europe (all within 30 years):
UK & North Europe - 1066 - Stamford Bridge, Hastings, deaths of the Norwegian and Swedish kings
Iberian Penisula - 1085 - Reconquest of Toledo
Middle East & Byzantium - 1071 - Manzikert
France - 1095 - First Crusade

Does anyone have dates for HRE and the East European nations?

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by C.N.
Does anyone have dates for HRE and the East European nations?

HRE Start Investiture Conflict (1076) or Canossa (1077)
Poland Start death of Boleslaw (1138) perhaps???
End 1386 Union with Lithuania???
Hungary the papal alliance that Géza I formed with Gregory VII (1076)
Hungary End of Middle ages perhaps the end of the Arpads (13??)

 

[stnylan]

1061 - Beginning of Norman Conquset of Sicily by Guiscard & co.