Hidden mechanics you'd REALLY like to see

[Rags17]

Hi All

What it says in the title. What game mechanics that are currently hidden would you ideally like to see made visible, either for editing or simply so you can follow the logic and adjust your play style accordingly ?

My top three would have to include the following -

• The marriage mechanics. Just what the hell makes the AI decide to say that it "Wants a better alliance" ?
• The gavelkind rules. I for one would love to know the weightings used to determine why one kid will get the duchy and one crappy county while the second one gets the three best counties with all of their improvements, hospitals, trade posts etc.
• The health rules. What determines if and when a character will simply die of old age ?

I can think of many, many others (eg council votes, when a character will accept a favour or alliance, if/when/how much the Pope will give you when fighting a defensive Holy War etc.)

I'm posting this here rather than in the modding forum for two reasons - a) I think that this needs the exposure and b) I reckon that there are people who would like to see mechanics if not necessarily edit them.

(If any mods are reading this - could we at least open up the marriage and gavelkind mechanics ?)

 

[Zaltys]

The health rules. What determines if and when a character will simply die of old age ?

As far as I can tell, that's completely random. Based on the
NDefines.NCharacter.NATURAL_DEATH_CHANCE_AGE_<age> settings in defines.lua. Which is a shame, since both weak and sickly, and strong and healthy characters have the same probability of triggering a natural death.

As for marriage mechanics: those are hard-coded. Cannot be modded, and nobody knows how they work (except for the devs).

 

[Rags17]

As far as I can tell, that's completely random. Based on the
NDefines.NCharacter.NATURAL_DEATH_CHANCE_AGE_<age> settings in defines.lua. Which is a shame, since both weak and sickly, and strong and healthy characters have the same probability of triggering a natural death.

As for marriage mechanics: those are hard-coded. Cannot be modded, and nobody knows how they work (except for the devs).

I know about the defines.lua entries, but it is known that Health affects the mortality, it's just that we don't know how. My guess is that Health acts as some sort of multiplier to the base chance so (say) a 5% chance might be uplifted by 50% to 7.5% if the character Health is under 5 for example.

AS to marriage mechanics being hard coded - that's the point of this thread ! Government mechanics used to be hard coded and invisible until they opened them up early last year. My guess is that at some stage they will open up pretty much everything, I would just like to see them now, before they start working on CK3 !

 

[Zsrai]

Gavelkind is (needlessly perhaps) complicated, but if I remember correctly it goes something like this:

Highest tier titles are shared out, with their de jure capitals, first. Then the next tier down and so on. If the de jure capital isn't available (either not owned or another sibling gets it as a higher tier capital) then a random county in the de jure capital duchy is chosen (maybe Kingdom, if the parent is Empire tier). Higher tier titles are weighed more I believe, so you can get your primary heir getting your duchy and the capital county while your second son gets the other 3 counties, for example. They changed the way it splits a bit a few major patches ago, where the de facto capital (and capital duchy, if big enough and few enough heirs) SHOULD go to your primary heir. This can still tweak out I've noticed, and also isn't a problem for the AI since they always make their de facto capital their primary titles de jure capital (if available).

A rough example would be Empire (A), 2 Kingdoms (A & B), 4 Duchies (AA, AB, BA, BB), and 12 Counties (AA1, AA2, etc with 4 counties per duchy). Say you have 4 sons. This is where it's fun. First go in order of titles: Empire A to Son A, Kingdom A to Son B, Kingdom B to Son C, 2 Duchies to Son D (to make up for the missing higher level title they get the extra). Now, Son A gets the capital county (AA1), Son B gets the capital Duchy AA and a random capital county in the duchy, lets say AA2. Son C gets capital (of his kingdom) Duchy BA and it's 4 counties. This leaves Duchies AB and BB with Son D, who should get the 8 counties in each. This leaves the extra 2 capital duchy counties up for grabs between your first two sons. I find that they will go to the latter, and I'm pretty sure it's because the game calculates it as staying in the realm so Son A still has the most land (controls the realm) but gets screwed demesne wise.

Basically -
Son A gets Empire A, County AA1.
Son B gets Kingdom A, Duchy AA, and Counties AA2, AA3, AA4.
Son C gets Kingdom B, Duchy BA, and Counties BA1, BA2, BA3, BA4.
Son D gets Duchies AB and BB, and Counties AB1, AB2, AB3, AB4, BB1, BB2, BB3, BB4.

So now you see why Gavelkind sucks unless you can get rid of potential heirs. Also the fact that it doesn't always work the way it should or has in the past (even in the same game). It also gets even funkier if you own land outside of your de jure primary title, as it will give those lands away to secondary heirs first (good), but it can really tweak your realm if you have more heirs than land to evenly split. I'm honestly not even sure if the devs could give us a straight answer on how it's supposed to work (and how it actually does).

 

[kmh42]

The gavelkind rules. I for one would love to know the weightings used to determine why one kid will get the duchy and one crappy county while the second one gets the three best counties with all of their improvements, hospitals, trade posts etc.

dev says:

that's actually something we're already talking about, to check internally to see where we're at exactly, where we want to be exactly and how to convey it properly in game (in the Wiki as well, by extension) so players can have a very clear idea of the order of inheritance.

 

[CocoCincinnati]

I for one would like to be able to better understand the combat system and tactics. I guess that system isn't really hidden but it is so complex that its not really worth the time to worry about it too much. I agree about gavelkind, I wish that was more clear on how they are split up so you could plan better, although from reading this thread maybe that's not really hidden either. I for one don't care to ever know the health rules. Death is an unknown even in real life, I have no problem with it being unknown in the game.

 

[teatimetrading]

When a courtier dies and I inherit wealth from them, I'd like to get a message telling me who died and how much they gave me.

 

[Arkabeth]

There should be some notification about that, under elective gavelkind, one of your heirs is going to generate a new kingdom title if you own over 50% of the de jure lands of the kindom and are a king yourself (and that you might lose your capital if your capital isn't de jure your primairly kingdom title).

Also it'd be nice to get a visual indicator for that you're unable to raid someone the next 5 years due to them beating your raiders in battle (and when the non-raidability ends).

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Elector reasoning, like Councillors in Conclave, would go a long way. We'd know better whether to bribe, kill electors, or choose other heirs if we knew why they vote like they do.

Tying it with the Favour system would be neat too.

 

[[Arthur-PDX]]

I for one would like to be able to better understand the combat system and tactics. I guess that system isn't really hidden but it is so complex that its not really worth the time to worry about it too much.

Aye, combat system isn't as well-presented as it could. I think the best way to learn more, without having someone who already knows them tell you (sounds like a cult...), is to check the Wiki (http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Combat) ; if you check that link, be sure to also check out the "Combat Tactics" section.

I'll try to give you a very gross summary of thing to remember :

• More troops is always better (revolutionary idea, I know), but look out for attrition
• Terrain is important : look out for them rivers, mountains, hills and all, they *will* have an impact on the involved troops efficiency
• There are 3 phases in combat, which I call "Light", "Heavy" & "Pursuit"
• Specific kinds of troops will be more important in each kind of phase (Light Infantry in Light or Heavy Infantry in Heavy...)
• Make sure your commanders *are not shit* : The general rule is to avoid commanders with Martial under 7 (I think ?) and with some shitty traits like slothful and/or craven
  • [No commander] is better than [bad commander] !
• Basically, during combat, and during each phases, some tactics will be triggered periodically, and they will give either bonus or malus to certain of your troops.
  • These tactics will trigger depending on lots of things, like the commander Martial, culture, specific traits, troops composition and I think terrain

GOOD THINGS TO REMEMBER :

• The current metagame generally favours Heavy Infantry
• Tribals rely heavily on Light Infantry : if you survive the Light Phase, you can wreck them with Heavy Infantry
• Nomads are monsters during the Light phase and will usually gain victory during that phase. If you can get to the Heavy phase though, even if you're moral has taken a beating, you can turn things around

Arthur

 

[joos]

I would also like to see some kind of 'Education Progress' indicator. Currently, it seems completely random that my Strong son studying under my Godly marshal ends up with a misguided soldier trait. If I knew just how well my kid is performing in his studies, then I can scale my future expectations accordingly.

 

[[Arthur-PDX]]

I would also like to see some kind of 'Education Progress' indicator. Currently, it seems completely random that my Strong son studying under my Godly marshal ends up with a misguided soldier trait. If I knew just how well my kid is performing in his studies, then I can scale my future expectations accordingly.

I guess you can find some interesting information on the Wiki. It's important to remember that you will have indeed much less control over a kid's education if you send him to an AI, which definitely is a risk to consider.


Arthur

 

[Cozmonaut]

Hi All

What game mechanics that are currently hidden would you ideally like to see made visible?

When somebody on my court dies that was educating kids, I would like to have a reasonable way/warning which kids are now lacking Guardians.

Pop management in CK2 gets nasty when you're working a 120 people lategame Republic Court.

 

[Enriador]

[No commander] is better than [bad commander] !

Something is wrong here...

 

[Earthenbulwark]

I'd really like to see clear indications about De Jure drift. The game still gives positive messages of 'being incorporated into' whatever country or empire even as it ticks backwards to the status quo.

It's also very hard to know when and what conditions have to be satisfied to start the drift in some cases.

 

[Sunspawn]

Something is wrong here...

Not really. With a horrible commander, the flank can fail disastrously due to the commander doing something completely idiotic, while a leaderless mob will fight in an uninspired way until they win or break.

Also, seconding Ark's second request, a way to track whom you can and whom you can't raid and when that would change would be nice.