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Alfryd

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Pretty good if you ask me. I like how the monks have Techniques linked to Styles (which isn't in Jade empires) and stance (which also isn't). The idea of certain spell only work on certain only of the day rocks too.
Ah, that seemed a fairly obvious addition. I'd like to be able to simplify the style dynamics slightly, so I can re-emphasise the progression of choirs instead.

I'd have to agree with Draxynnic about the wizardry background. I'm also not sure about the particularly heavy Daurosian/Agrelan influence. The Healer/wizard team-up never made particular sense to me in the first place (monk/wizard isn't obvious for that matter.) In practical terms, a Fervus/Krypta alliance makes more sense, in that their spells should really complement wizardly survival more efficiently. I think a dwarven/wizard (and elven/sorceror) alliance has substantial potential, though.

I thought about posting a separate thread for this, but this might be as good a place as any. Maybe I could stick it in the introduction?


EDIT: Simplified version:
bars_thumb.png


Basically, the upper bar represents health, and is diminished by injury, poison, disease, etc. White represents nonlethal damage, which can dealt by specialised attacks and spells, or by fatigue. Once health (in red) drops below the black line (or about 25-30% of max health, depending on Spirit,) the character falls unconscious. Once nonlethal damage AND health drops to zero, the character is dead.

The lower bar represents temporary factors that directly impact how well Bob performs at his skill checks. Anything to the right of the big black line makes skill checks harder, anything to the left helps cancel out the negatives. (If nothing is affecting Bob's performance one way or another, the lower bar disappears.)
 
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Nerdfish

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I'd have to agree with Draxynnic about the wizardry background.

Fortunately, I don't have to. In fact I don't have to give a damn about what he has to say. That person has done nothing but coming up with "criticism" about every single one of my ideas - none of which has been worthwhile. Paying attention to his "opinions" is like shooting myself on the feet.

I am absolutely fed up with all the disagreement directed towards my ideas. of course some people don't like them - or they wouldn't be innovative. but if they have no reason beside not liking it personally, I'd tell them to stuff it.

"Even the most worthless piece of rubbish is more valuable then your criticism designating it as so."

Alfryd: Those bars are similar to status icons for Modern RPGs. NWN and WOW at icon denoting active effects above the health bar. However It's unclear at moment if your idea is more intuitive or not. You could argue it take longer for people to go over the icon to see what's going on, but remembering color code would be no easy matter.
 
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Alfryd

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I am absolutely fed up with all the disagreement directed towards my ideas. of course some people don't like them - or they wouldn't be innovative. but if they have no reason beside not liking it personally, I'd tell them to stuff it.
Actually, I think a few fairly coherent reasons were given for why wizards wouldn't represent descendants of a draconic lineage- basically, there's no evidence that dragons and humans have ever co-operated in the majesty setting, good reason to suppose they'd be at odds, and no evidence that they ever interbred or that wizards represent some kind of inbred clique (besides, after a few dozen generations, just about EVERYONE would have some dragon blood.) Of course, it's only Draxxynic's opinion, but it's no less valid than your own, where you're basically spinning an elaborate fan-fiction backstory. There's nothing wrong with that, and nothing forcing you to change your position, but you can't throw a tantrum just because someone else can't see where you're coming from.

Now I would add, I have been personally intrigued by the notion of Brashnard finding some kind of antedeluvian 'teaching device' myself, and there are scattered sources within the existing majesty canon that suggest an archaean, possibly Draconic, civilisation prior to the rise of the Sky Gods. But you need to state your case, lay out the supporting evidence, and allow for other interpretations.
Fortunately, I don't have to. In fact I don't have to give a damn about what he has to say. That person has done nothing but coming up with "criticism" about every single one of my ideas - none of which has been worthwhile. Paying attention to his "opinions" is like shooting myself on the feet.
Well, personally speaking, I've found Draxxxynic's commentary to be quite helpful, constructive or insightful, including in relation to your own ideas. This isn't to say that your ideas don't have many fine points, and I would like to see many incroporated into the final game, but they're imperfect.
"Even the most worthless piece of rubbish is more valuable then your criticism designating it as so."
True in isolation, but paying attention to criticism is often the method by which the 'worthless rubbish' moves up a grade, so to speak.

To be honest, I wish my own ideas got as much criticism as your own do, since I'm fairly sure my own designs are by no means flawless. In some cases I'm aware of the problems, and think the benefits would outweight the costs, but sometimes I miss things.
"Complaints, I can handle."
*straightens tie*

Alfryd: Those bars are similar to status icons for Modern RPGs. NWN and WOW at icon denoting active effects above the health bar. However It's unclear at moment if your idea is more intuitive or not. You could argue it take longer for people to go over the icon to see what's going on, but remembering color code would be no easy matter.
True enough. Perhaps you could vary the size of the status icon in some fashion, to represent the condition's severity?
bars_thumb.png
 

Draxynnic

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This is why it's often good to wait a little while before replying to some posts - Alfryd's pretty much said what I was going to say, and better than I was going to. Although I am amused that my handle's grown an extra 'x' every time it was used... :D

Alfryd, to reply to your own post: I don't see any problem with having the colours - I can see the criticism about remembering what all the colours mean, but as long as they don't make it difficult to see the total length of the bar, I don't see a problem with having them. An experienced player would probably learn what they all mean soon enough as long as there aren't too many (it's amazing how quickly what at first seems to be information overload can become commonplace), and the option could be made available to open up an information window that more explicitly states the cause of all the morale effects on the character for players to check what any colours they don't recognise mean (similar to the one that can be used now to check which spells are active on a hero, although it would need to be extended to henchmen as well).

If the colours do prove to be distracting to some people, that could be resolved by making it an interface option to make monochromatic instead. Such things can probably be tested out in beta- or alpha-testing before hitting the shelves.
 

Nerdfish

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Blah

I don't have problems with criticisms of any specific idea, however, I don't respect those who dismisses my ideas consistently with "i don't like it" or something equally lacking in thought when the idea requires hours of deliberation.

It's like someone urinate on your food as soon as you try to serve them. it's not a matter of quality of idea, rather how much consideration the "critics" actually gave the idea before reaching a conclusion, and if there as actually any consideration beside his personal view of the proponent of the idea, rather then the ideas.

If this is happening to only this post, I wouldn't have had any problem. Some problem seemed to be following me and vandalizing fruits of my thoughts on purpose like a spam bot.

It just make perfect logical sense to ignore noise produced by things that can produce only negative feedbacks.
 

Nerdfish

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This is fantasy, therefore inherently unrealistic, however, I do have a defense for my Draconian lineage hypothesis.

Let's say the spell casting phenotype is polygenic - most of these loci are recessive. only rarely does non-spell casters give birth to spell casters, because both parent have to pass their recessive gene to the offspring for that to happen. The actual probability depend on how many recessive genes are required. For the same reason, spell casters might give birth to non-spell casters.

Because the spell casting genes in their own does not confer a competitive advantage, there is no reason why their occurrence would increase in each generation. Gamete of someone carrying a single copy of a gene have 50% chance of containing that gene, and Gamete of someone carrying two copy of a gene have 100% probability of containing it. If the population is stable, implying each parent, in average, produce a pair of children, then the number of copies would remain statistically identical in the following generation.

The consequence of this would be there are very few wizards.
 

Nerdfish

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Wizard factions

Regardless, I can't fall asleep, so it's probably productive to make a little post on wizard factions.

Institute of Magic
Seal: A crystal ball with an valet eye
Specialization: Arcane

Ardania's authority on theory of magic and everything arcane. Members of Institute has, over the years, earned themselves the reputation of eccentric and disconnected. Few understand their drive and ambition to explain unusual phenomenons and discover the governing principles behind the world. To the Institute, practical application is a second thought - they are only interested understanding the world.

The Institute of magic carry out some of the most expensive, and most senseless experiments in Ardania. However they are also responsible for most astonishing breakthroughs. While there are inevitably some crackpods, the members of Institute are reputed to be the experts in their respective fields.


University of Tholaria
Specialization: Mind
Seal: Open book and key across it

The university is made of Trainees and those who train them. The faculty tend to be some of the most approachable wizards - but they are still magicians and can be quite absent-minded. The University focus on practical application of magic, especially those involved in realizing a mind's true potential.

The University often engage research to develop practical spells, or improve a popular one. Beside education of spell-casters, it's also involved in general education, publishing and invention, and work closely with the dwarves.


Wizard guild of Ardania
Specialization: Elemental
Seal: purple diamond

Members of the guild operate out of magically constructed guild halls and lend their powerful arsenal of elemental spell to those who can afford their service. Because their focus is the well-being of practicing mages, the Guild is often mired in politics, trying to secure contract or earning favor of nobility. Members of the guild conduct research on a limited level, however the results of such research are closely guarded secret of the individual.

Members of the wizard guilds are often the only wizard a noble come into contact or have to deal with. And it's often a misconception outside Tholaria that every person capable of wizardry is a member of this organization. The guild however, oversee the legality and use of magic, and often place, and lift ban on certain spell or items. The wizard guild also operate a number of business like enchanter, magic item and potion shops to cater the common folk.


Battlemages of Tholaria
Specialization: Direct damage and instant kill spells
Seal: Purple triangle and a downward pointing blade

The Battlemages are elite and backbone of Tholarian Guard, the military arm of the City state. They serve as the last line of defense of the city of Tholaria and personal honor guard of the conclave. While nominally a unit in the service of the crown, the battlemage answers directly to the conclave.

The Battlemages are recruited from orphan shelters at a young age. They then undergo rigorous training and repeated enchantment of mind and body to become ruthless fighting machines. The battlemages also have access to spells forbidden by the guild making them even more lethal.

Because of their fearsome reputation the city of tholaria itself has seldom came under siege. Because of this the unit has seldom an opportunity to engage real enemies. They are often ridiculed by other fiefdom as expensive paper tiger, a rumor which they have never bothered to dispel.

Conclave of Tholaria
Specialization: Everything
Seal: Scepter on Tholaria city coat of arms.

The circle of 12 archmages that heads the noble houses of Tholaria. Capable spell casters on their own right, their power is amplified by the trust of their people and wealth of their houses. They understand wealth and knowledge are the currency of power in the city and their subtle plans reflects it. Through it's long history, the city state was never subjugated by a foreign power.

The conclave is often criticized for its apathy to the outside world. Their ambassadors often argued the priority of the conclave is to lead its people, not to meddle in foreign politics. This protectionist ideal is also reflected in Tholaria's economic strategies, outside merchants have very hard time gaining foothold in the city.

The Archmages are seldom seen in person, they uses runners or project images to communicate. This spawns a large amount of rumors about their nature. There are even accusations of the conclaves being made of demons, undead or dragons, however all of these rumors were ignored by those who met the members of the conclave in person.
 
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Nerdfish

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On dragon mage and Brashnard:

The dragon did not cooperate with mankind. She was using humans as a tools to usurp the gods. Without her help, no human could cast spells without permission of a deity. By passing her blood and knowledge onto humans, she gave them a chance to eventually disobey or even defile the gods - turning the instrument of the pantheon against them. I daresay that arcane magic is why the deities has such difficulty getting the Ardanians in line - after all a person is much less likely going to be devote if a potion from the market does the same thing as praying for a day.

I doubt Majesty could feature such complicated, sinister and mature plots, Even in the background lore. Actually I'd hope majesty 2 won't take place in Ardania.
 

Peter Ebbesen

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Nerdfish said:
I don't have problems with criticisms of any specific idea, however, I don't respect those who dismisses my ideas consistently with "i don't like it" or something equally lacking in thought when the idea requires hours of deliberation.
To be fair, since you tend to come up with far-ranging ideas that, seen by an outsider that isn't deep into Majesty-lore and just want the sequel to be a good game, have little going for them inherently than that you like them and that you think they'd be fun/appropriate, having people state, without personal attacks, that they do not like your ideas is a somewhat valuable contribution - not a valuable contribution towards developing your ideas in a way you like, admittedly, but a valuable contribution towards answering the question, is this something that other majesty gamers would find a good idea?

I mean, I could spend hours of deliberation on coming up with an idea about how ranged characters should work in a completely new and interesting way or spend days designing hundreds of magical spells that would be fun in a RPG but completely and supremely useless for a game with indirect control of spellcasters at best, but the time I put into it does not guarantee the quality nor value of the product (except in Marx' theory of labour, which I reject) nor would it necessarily make for good gameplay (it likely wouldn't, KISS does tend to work better than overcomplication in any game with a real time component), and you'd be well within your rights to say "that's interesting, Peter, but I don't really like it for these reasons, which admittedly are reasons that you, Peter, find irrelevant - but they aren't irrelevant to me".

In that hypothetical situation I'd be happier if you expanded on my ideas, of course - constructive criticism is so much nicer to receive, since it tends to validate one's own opinion that one was right all along and had a great idea, but it should not be assumed, since, to others, it might quite simply be a bad idea for the game - and they might well be right.

------

Afryd, I love your general setup in post #1 - its level of detail seems appropriate in giving just that extra bit of basic information that can still be taken in at a glance for those interested in that while being ignored by those players who aren't interested in individual differences ("he's a level X warrior with full equipment, that's all I need to know"). (That said, Appearance, Extent, and Stature could be cut completely without any loss if Majesty 2 has the same overall level of abstraction as Majesty 1 did, since the player would in that case be very unlikely to notice the stats affect anything, but that's not guaranteed to be the case.)

The one thing that seems a bit out of place is the aging mechanic - but perhaps I'm thinking too much in Majesty 1 terms of timescales there. From a gameplay POV, I generally dislike aging mechanics, though possibly that's just because I've never seen it done right (i.e. not just of interest to those who want to focus on the life and death of specific characters or added as an arbitrary mechanism to prevent a long-term build up of forces by retiring/weakening units) - best attempt I've seen is in the Dominions series, and even there it generally just causes extra micromanagement, but at least that series is turn based so you have the time needed.

The next many posts with brainstorming, long lists of spells, abilities, subtypes of individual classes, and inventing background story for the fun of it (including Nerdfish's lists of spells) are great fun to read but do seem rather out of place for Majesty 2 and more of interest for fanfiction or a Majesty MMORPG (where that sort of depth is entirely appropriate, since each player controls one character at a time rather than potentially dozens). Then again, Majesty 2 is only the first new entry in the Majesty franchise and hopefully not the last - who knows what the future will bring? :)
 
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May 7, 2008
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I have to agree with Peter's last post and I must add this observation. The lore is interesting to read but one must beware when making a game such as majesty detail is both a burden and a blessing but too much is certainly a burden. The more spells at a levelled heroe's disposal, the harder a monster must be to challenge a levelled hero. One aspect that allowed a player to start a master difficulty game in original majesty with dragons was the fact that several low level heroes and perhaps several is too sparse a word, could take the dragon on. If said dragon must be much harder to give a multi-spell high level hero a challenge, that dragon slips farther and farther away from the ability of hordes of low level heroes to combat it. That is why the first game was playable because besides hitpoints,equipment and perhaps a spell or two there wasn't incredible differences in hero power between low and high (save wizards). If heroes have the growth and functionality of their rpg counterparts then high level monsters become more and more difficult for baseline heroes to challenge. This could make the game unbalanced.

I am also inclined to like the original hero attributes because focus amongst others would just complicate the game beyond the comprehension of a casual gamer. And a good game will hit both hardcore gamers such as Mr Nerdfish and casual gamers like my friends.
 

Alfryd

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I'll get back to this later, but a few points:

Firstly, more spells does not equate with more power, it equates with more flexibility. It's easy to balance spellcasting by inflicting fatigue, daily limits or collective cooldowns of some sort. Beside which, not all heroes would neccesarily know all the spells available to a caster of their level, depending on skill specialisation. (And that's assuming they have levels.) Appearance/extent/stature are probably not essential, but bear in mind that you'd probably wind up coding similar stats to cover those areas regardless- movement speed, size category, base reach, etc. if you're using MMO-style weapon-interchange mechanics. Which, apparently, they are, since heroes will differ in gear and appearance.

Secondly, hero retention between quests (which I wholeheartedly support) has been stated by Alexey as a feature that *will* appear in the sequel, which means that heroes may well be around long enough to age significantly, and players are more likely to pay attention to their heroes individual personalities, stats, and relationships.

Thirdly, with regard to background complexity, I have tried to tie in the various elements of fanfic and class-subtypes to concrete gameplay variations where possible, and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Paradox might use these as the basis of new base or prestige classes, divvying up the detail accordingly.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread:
I fully expect that even half this amount of detail would probably be overkill for design purposes, but hey- no harm in exploring your options.
I will be trying to address concerns over the ability of AI to handle this kind of complexity elsewhere.

I now have a fair amount of detail on the healer done, and more of the cultist filled in. I will try to get around to the wizard in short order.
 

Alfryd

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My net access was out for a few days, but the cultist is mostly done now- sections for the menagerie, creatures, background, and prestige classes. I still have some polishing off to do, but it can wait. Any thoughts or changes?

.
 

Nerdfish

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Good job ... and here are some of my ideas, too

I do not understand the changeling ability, how could imitating someone cause them to die ?

Oh, the animal breeding idea is great. It's an awesome profession for the cultists.

a few more mind effect spells that may be fun ...

Seal of Suffering
"fear leads to anger, anger to hate, hate leads to suffering"
Creates a magic circle that activates pain receptors. Creatures inside the circle is struck by overwhelming illusionary pain until they leave the circle or it expires. The circle lay dormant until triggered by a creature, after which it lasts for 1 second / point of caster intelligence. The victims are paralyzed for the duration of the spell and loses 10 stamina every second for which he/she remains in the circle.WODs are immune.

Seal of Panic
"There is nothing to fear but fear itself"
Creates a magic circle that amplifies sympathetic regulation of panic in the subject and cause it to flee. Every second a creature remain within the circle, or when they attempt to enter it, they must succeed a willpower check or flee. The circle lay dormant until it's triggered by a creature, after which it last 1 second / point of caster intelligence.

Restore Mind
"Rewed, that which is broken"
the wizard subject a willing or restrained target to hypnotic treatment. The spell is initiated by a potion the caster has to brew in advance and the subject has to imbibe. For each second the wizard restore one point of a damage mental attribute until all negative mental attributes are removed, at which point the subject recovers from all spells effecting his or her mind. This spell does not remove diseases, which is the province of healers.

Mass Hypnosis
"You are feeling tired, and your eyes are closing on you."
The wizard overdrive VLPO of all creatures that has a brain near him/her. causing them to fall into deep slumber. unwilling creature can resist if they have more willpower then the casting wizard's intelligence.
 
Last edited:

Alfryd

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I apologise about the delays and lack of polish, but my net connection is still down, and I won't have regular access for a while.

I do not understand the changeling ability, how could imitating someone cause them to die ?
Yeah, I might rework that one a bit. That, and the metamorphosis spell. I'm not sure my sovereign spell lineup gives a proper emphasis on what the Fervus player is supposed to good at. I may rework that later. What I'm hoping to emphasise is the fervus player is less afraid of making quick offensive strikes or reconnaissance attempts, since it's easier for them to mount hit & run attacks and exert specific micro.
Oh, the animal breeding idea is great. It's an awesome profession for the cultists.
Thank you. I really must get around to the wizard at some point.

I have some further proposals for the Monk/Dauros faction, between sovereign spells and prestige classes, though I'm still stuck about coming up with a good system for integrating the choirs with the styles/stances/techniques.
Also, I've added some bits and pieces for the Healer.

I thought that a good emphasis for the Dauros/Agrela faction would be to have them play defence and emphasise on base-building, so the Poyaggi tree and Oracle/Avatar help to reflect that.

(You may note that Dauros is tied to the dwarves and Fervus to elves/fey, werewolves/vargs to the moon and undead are sun-averse, so that gives you extra faction connections.)


The interesting thing here, IMHO, is that this kind of lineup allows you to attempt entirely different strategies from just beating your foes into submission. A Fervus/Agrela player, for example, can use a combination of 'love bombing' and subversive inflitration to win opponents over with hardly any significant exchange of blows. Dauros/Krypta, on the other hand, utilizes serried legions of golems and undead marching in perfect formation to lay siege to walled settlements and crush enemies beneath their heels, and hardly needs to pay attention to citizens' needs at all. Things like that.

Another item to note is that heroes of a particular church or organisation would be quite reluctant to attack eachother, even if they work for different players, and may well either opt out of such direct confrontations or even, (in rare cases,) betray a given side.
 

Alfryd

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I'll also have to try to get around to detailing what the various herbs and alchemical combinations can do by way of potions, poisons, etc.

The idea behind the gardens being linked to the healers' flower-planting habits is that it emphasises the idea of living in harmony with the local ecosystem- if you put your gardens in representative terrain, then the seedings planted should mostly survive. Alternatively, it allows the player a bit of tactical discretion in terms of what services you want to offer your heroes, since you can vary the alchemical concoctions they can (eventually) access by placing the gardens over different terrain. Mountain flowers, for instance, will give very different potions and elixirs from river herbs. (Also, there's the cultists' botanical arsenal to consider- the two of these combined can offer some very strange brews indeed, which lends a potential edge to the Fervus/Agrela player.)
 

Nerdfish

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The interesting thing here, IMHO, is that this kind of lineup allows you to attempt entirely different strategies from just beating your foes into submission. A Fervus/Agrela player, for example, can use a combination of 'love bombing' and subversive inflitration to win opponents over with hardly any significant exchange of blows. Dauros/Krypta, on the other hand, utilizes serried legions of golems and undead marching in perfect formation to lay siege to walled settlements and crush enemies beneath their heels, and hardly needs to pay attention to citizens' needs at all. Things like that.

This is an interesting aspect from ardania from an RPG alignment, because a character's diety is tied to his or her alignment. So instead of having the old good/evil law/chaos axis, in Ardania you have Dauros and Fervus representing the order/disorder axis and possibly Agrela and Krypta representing the Life and Death axis. There is no hardcoded good and evil per say.

Iron guard was fun. I was thinking about Ardanian golems myself, and came up with enchanted weapons that floats in the air and operates on their own (blade guardians). they may be cool but not as cool as what you have there.
 
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Draxynnic

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Alfryd said:
I thought that a good emphasis for the Dauros/Agrela faction would be to have them play defence and emphasise on base-building, so the Poyaggi tree and Oracle/Avatar help to reflect that.

While I can see why conceptually, I've always considered Dauros/Agrela to be the 'offensive' faction and Fervus/Krypta to be the 'defensive' faction. It's the way the paladins just run out and kill everything, while for Fervus/Krypta it's the way anything that attacks your settlement is likely to run into a skeleton or animal on the way.

Another item to note is that heroes of a particular church or organisation would be quite reluctant to attack eachother, even if they work for different players, and may well either opt out of such direct confrontations or even, (in rare cases,) betray a given side.

Hrrmn. I'd be inclined to leave switching sides as a result of this as something that only happens when a hero is orphaned. However, it could be interesting to see heroes of the same deity refusing to fight each other or attack each other's temples, instead attacking other heroes and buildings when possible. Or this could simply be handwaved away as heroes of a particular god on either side simply seeing each other as worthy foes (as opposed to hated foes in the case of diammetrically opposed religions) - after all, it's not like following the same god, or even the same religion, has stopped people from waging war on each other in real life.
 

Alfryd

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Well, my net connection has been restored sooner than I thunk it would. Good.

...in Ardania you have Dauros and Fervus representing the order/disorder axis and possibly Agrela and Krypta representing the Life and Death axis. There is no hardcoded good and evil per say.
My sentiment precisely.
Iron guard was fun. I was thinking about Ardanian golems myself, and came up with enchanted weapons that floats in the air and operates on their own (blade guardians). they may be cool but not as cool as what you have there.
Thank you. Was there anything you didn't like especially, or think might be improved on? Any thoughts about the healer?


While I can see why conceptually, I've always considered Dauros/Agrela to be the 'offensive' faction and Fervus/Krypta to be the 'defensive' faction. It's the way the paladins just run out and kill everything, while for Fervus/Krypta it's the way anything that attacks your settlement is likely to run into a skeleton or animal on the way.
Yeah, but that's sort of a general symptom of majesty's overall faction imbalance and AI deficiencies.

The strategy that I would see a dauros/agrela player using is to build up their base, carve out territory and babysit heroes during the early game, establish and defend fortifications in the mid game, then put together heavy, organised, massed-battle offensives in the late game.

The dauros/agrela player wins by first securing their own position so that it's not threatened, then venturing out to destroy their enemies, and perhaps winning a few converts along the way through diplomacy.
Or this could simply be handwaved away as heroes of a particular god on either side simply seeing each other as worthy foes (as opposed to hated foes in the case of diammetrically opposed religions) - after all, it's not like following the same god, or even the same religion, has stopped people from waging war on each other in real life.
We discussed this over on the HoA forums, and there are two responses to it:
A. Majesty's faiths represent specific organisations, rather than simply religious alliances (unless you want to introduce different subtypes of hero,)
B. Majesty genuinely does have interventionist deities who do make some effort to keep their followers on the straight and narrow.

I think it might be possible, though that certain faiths would be more prone to infighting than others. Adepts, for instance, might place loyalty to their sovereign about loyalty to their church, on the basis that that their God actively encourages mutual combat as a means of testing themselves.