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hylander25k

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I stumbled across someone mentioning El Cid in the 1.09 Wish list and it made me think of something;

what's your opinion on the inclusion of Heroic Characters? Characters that are in, some ways, historically 'super human?'

Robin Hood and Maid Marion, as well as El Cid already appear in the game, but I thought that characters like these might warrant some sort of special attention. Maybe a Red Banner around their portrait, to designate them as heroes, as well as some unique statistics that may 'help' them fufill a historical purpose (though it wouldn't OBLIGATE you to use them as such.) For example, in addition to an abnormally high martial skill maybe give El Cid the Zealous, Rocky Terrain and Heavy Cavalry Combat Modifiers. And give Robin Hood the Light Infantry and Experimental Combat Modifier.

Non-martial characters like Maid Marion might have an unimaginably high Stewardship and Diplomacy skill, while priests and theologians like Thomas Aquinas might have a ridiculous learning skill, accompanied by a better than average diplomacy skill.

Also, generic "Hero" units - such as a rogue member of the Hashishan might have a very, very high intrigue skill. Even though they are not proper "Characters" there is still something extraordinary about them - the "rare/holographic" pokemon, so to speak. These characters may be culturally, regionally or religiously relevant, and should always be tethered to an event related to their actual history. So Jean de Arc might appear when there is a bitter war between England and France, and El Cid may appear during a ReConquest war between one of the Spanish Kingdoms and the Andalusians or Moors.

The biggest key to me, however, is identifying these characters as special. Right now the heroic characters in the game are OKAY, but they aren't what we know as the "Great Men (and Women) of History." I could see this being a DLC if Paradox really did their research and went far enough with this idea. What are your thoughts?
 

Viper623

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While I do like your idea, I personally wouldn't want a DLC like this. I think that there are already the occasional random courtier that appears naturally with awesome stats and it fits this purpose in a more organic way. This idea could make for a great mod though, spread it around in the mod forum, you might find someone who is willing to either take the idea and run with it or someone who will help you develop it.
 

the kookaburra

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Love the idea!
 

crimson_king

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I would definitely approve of that, though not next.

I would say, let the devs make the DLCs that open up playability (the upcoming Republic one, the inevitable pagan DLC, etc.) and then add in slightly more flavorful ones like the hero one.

Or better yet, not flesh it out too much and throw it in as a free patch (though I would pay for it.)
 

tuareg109

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Nah.
What we know as the "Great People of History" have had their stories and facts distorted by centuries of rewriting and/or translation, and oral revision in storytelling (especially in the case of Robin Hood, in your examples).
I understand your idea, but I think there's so much more Paradox can improve on or add in, that would really contribute to gameplay, and not be such a really cosmetic feature. El Cid doesn't have any importance unless you're playing in Spain. Robin Hood and Maid Marion don't have any importance unless you're in England, near Leicester, during the Second Crusade (and then you'd have to start on that bookmark).
 

tuareg109

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I'm not as interested in having heroic characters as I would be in allowing for characters to become renowned heroes.

I think your prestige score would have something to do with that.
But I'd also like events where, as your King is traveling through a faraway land (say, Jerusalem, and you're the King of England), you stop at an inn and people point and shout, "Look, it's the King of England! He helped win the Crusade and deliver us from the heathens!" and you gain piety and prestige.
And maybe your king is traveling around England and happens upon a master builder who humbly shows him his ideas, and Castle Infrastructure tech advances one level.
The more prestige, and the more your king moves around, the more likely these events become.
What do you think?
 

BBBD316

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Only if it plays Foo Fighters Hero when you get one.
 

ziamatt

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I'm not as interested in having heroic characters as I would be in allowing for characters to become renowned heroes.

This, I'd love for characters in the game to become heroes for having great stats or great accomplishments. I'd also like to add, the ability for a hero to become a saint. I don't really think either should change gameplay except maybe adding some prestige to their dynasty, but it would be really cool just for some added flavor.
 

tormos

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i feel like this would go hand in hand with the greatest of all mod needs not served at present-additional fleshed out bookmarks.
 

hylander25k

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Creating hero characters is an even better idea, honestly. But some sort of distinction might be necessary.

This idea came organically out of a mix of two ideas
1) as mentioned, the discussion of El Cid
2) the ridiculous amounts of completely useless courtiers I had, who served ZERO purpose except to be useful appendages to intra-courtial plots.

I was hoping initially for more positions for your courtiers (serving as knights/ bodyguards for you or your sons, handmaidens for your daughters and wife, etc etc) but establishing exceptional courtiers as heroes would work just as well methinks. Though I STILL would like to see some court-specific assignments for courtiers that affects gameplay more than a +10/+15 relations bonus.
 

grumphie

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as a hero dlc? no thanks. as a narrative dlc expanding the immersion with landholders becoming kingmakers, mighty generals and scheming brothers? sure. more immersion is better.
 

tnick0225

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+1 to what grumphie said.


@Hylander, in your original post you say:

hylander25k said:
So Jean de Arc might appear when there is a bitter war between England and France, and El Cid may appear during a ReConquest war between one of the Spanish Kingdoms and the Andalusians or Moors.

Makes me have to ask you do know El Cid is actually in the game as a character right? Had to ask, because at first I was assuming your really just meaning you want more immersion and not someone who may be dead reappearing and reappearing and reappearing some more.

I do like the idea of people being singled out in the game, with their story popping up. Like say the King of Denmark wins a Crusade, maybe some sort list of accomplishments or something could be shown. Not so much a randomly selected "oh this guy is hella awesome dude pay attention to him!" random courtier, but rather something that fleshes out the already available characters, because well there are some people that arise in the game whether they be AI or player characters that are pretty remarkable.

I do like your idea I just don't necessarily like how you would want it to be implemented in game. Seems a bit too Civ Great Artist appears magically out of nowhere to me, in the way you stated what you wanted to happen. Could just be a simple misunderstanding of course :)
 

nyah

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I'm not as interested in having heroic characters as I would be in allowing for characters to become renowned heroes.

Perhaps this could be recognised in-game by giving the character a new name, such as 'the Great', 'the Conquerer', or 'the Wise'.


Non-martial characters like Maid Marion might have an unimaginably high Stewardship and Diplomacy skill, while priests and theologians like Thomas Aquinas might have a ridiculous learning skill

How high is unimaginable? 2,000,000? Can't be, I just imagined that. Higher then. How high is ridiculous? Is it higher than unimaginable?

There are already very high stat characters in-game. It's very rare to get a character with stats more than 30, at least it's rare if you don't game the stats.

but they aren't what we know as the "Great Men (and Women) of History

I'm not sure that Robin Hood and Maid Marrion are really great people of history. Great stories, great myths, great fun, but even in those stories they all had their human weaknesses and failures. And they're not real.

Thomas Aquinas and El Cid. Fine, they made their mark on history and had skills that made them stand out from the rest of humanity. But super-human? No.

If somebody wants to create a mod that puts this stuff into the game I couldn't care less, but maybe this thread should be in the mods sub-forum. I would be disappointed if anything like this made it into the game.