Heretics

[Eochaid]

How will heresies be simulated in the game? Will players be allowed to suport a heresy (Cathares, Bogomils....) or even convert. Cathares were respected members of the Community in Southern France and the Counts of Toulouse were famous for their sympathy towards them.

On another thread I saw that "managing" a dynasty had a some aspects of RPG. Could lords secretly be heretics? Or if the heir to your crown turns up to be a heretic once he's King?

Could the Papacy be persuaded to legitimate a heresy. How will the Holy Inquisition be simulated?

Just a few questions I had in the back of my mind for a few days.

 

[Eochaid]

Well nobody answered my questions or even comment. Did I miss anything or did those questions just suck?

If I can find the answers on another thread please tell me. Despite a thorough reading of all the threads, I couldn't find anything. Cheers

 

[Havard]

The reason why noone answer is that noone knows

Except the P/S people of course...

 

[Eochaid]

Well then maybe should I re-phrase my questions: Do you think it would be a good thing if [question].

 

[Drakken]

Heresy is essential in the political, religious and international plays of the Holy Christian Church. We may safely assume it will be there.

How? Hell if I know.

Drakken

 

[Eochaid]

I agree with you Drakken! I'd love to have to face all that kind of problems concerning heresy. And even be a heretic myself!

 

[unmerged(703)]

Hmmm....

..... could they actually be heretics in "secret"? Never thought of that. Persons in leading positions have secrets we know that, but denying a belief seems a bit strong....

 

[Aetius]

I think the concept of a heretic is a bit difficult to apply in all cases, some "heretics" simply wanted to change the church some followed a separate religion. Parts of Franciscan order was at one point heretical to the pope but not to the HRE. I suppose you should be able to be heretical in that fashion. Being a member of a non-catholic, non-orthodox christianity is trickier.

It would be nice if the system supported a "heretical" version of all religions though

 

[unmerged(8303)]

I would like to be a heretic state. Would that affect my prestige?

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by jaron
I would like to be a heretic state. Would that affect my prestige?

It should! Heresy was stuff you got burnt alive for - that would kinda affect your prestige

 

[unmerged(8303)]

Originally posted by Havard
It should! Heresy was stuff you got burnt alive for - that would kinda affect your prestige

of my whole dynasty as well?

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by jaron


of my whole dynasty as well?

Sure. Growing up with a father as a burnt heretic didn't help much...

 

[unmerged(8303)]

Originally posted by Havard
Sure. Growing up with a father as a burnt heretic didn't help much...

What if I give my father to the church? Would I then be known as a pious traitor to my own blood? Or a true believer of the church?

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by jaron


What if I give my father to the church? Would I then be known as a pious traitor to my own blood? Or a true believer of the church?

It would probably help you towards the Pope and some sovereigns of the same religion. What your own nobles would think is another matter...

 

[unmerged(8303)]

hmm. In addition to THE crusades, smaller scale crusades were called by the pope against heretics like the.....ones that brought upon the downfall of Toulouse. I can't remember their names.

But small scale crusades like that did occur, right?

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by jaron
hmm. In addition to THE crusades, smaller scale crusades were called by the pope against heretics like the.....ones that brought upon the downfall of Toulouse. I can't remember their names.

But small scale crusades like that did occur, right?

You're thinking of the Albigensian Crusades against the Cathars. Yes, that was one of many crusades agains either pagans, muslims, heretics and political opponents of the Pope.

 

[unmerged(8303)]

against the Cathars? Weren't the Albigensians heretics too? ( I use the term loosely as it is probably a valid christian domination nowadays).

I would also like to add: For those christian dynasties close to the border of Islam, is a conversion to islam feasible or outside the rules of the game?

(Question - were muslims considered heretics or heathens?)

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by jaron
against the Cathars? Weren't the Albigensians heretics too? ( I use the term loosely as it is probably a valid christian domination nowadays).

Some of the Albigensians were Cathars

An Albigensian is a person from the city Albi. A Cathar (from greek kaqaroi - Pure One) was a heretic following a dualistic belief (similar to Manicheanism).

I would also like to add: For those christian dynasties close to the border of Islam, is a conversion to islam feasible or outside the rules of the game?

I would guess it's not possible. There are a few examples of conversions (like e.g. the Banu Quasi in Spain) but those are very few I think...

(Question - were muslims considered heretics or heathens?)

Heathens.

 

[unmerged(8303)]

Ah. Thanks Havard. I thought Albigensian was a religious group

Eradicating heretics such as the Cathars would bring prestige, wouldn't it?

Surely there was a reason the King of France and Aragon purged the Cathars. Oh? Land?

But Peter of Aragon was a devout catholic, I believe. I'm willing to wager a nickel he was also fighting out of his belief in the church and the pope's request.

The King of France though (discreetly) wished to obtain the rich lands of Toulouse for his crown.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by jaron
Ah. Thanks Havard. I thought Albigensian was a religious group

That's what the developers of Medieval:TW think too...

Eradicating heretics such as the Cathars would bring prestige, wouldn't it?

It should give prestige AND piety points.

Surely there was a reason the King of France and Aragon purged the Cathars. Oh? Land?

But Peter of Aragon was a devout catholic, I believe. I'm willing to wager a nickel he was also fighting out of his belief in the church and the pope's request.

The King of France though (discreetly) wished to obtain the rich lands of Toulouse for his crown.

Actually, Peter of Aragon did not participate in the purge of the Cathars. He actually fought the crusaders and was killed in the (il-planned) battle of Muret in 1213, where the Aragonese lost to Simon de Montfort's forces. Aragon withdrew from active participation in the conflict, but gave shelter to Raymond VI later on.