Herbert change to Species Modification on special traits.

[DemonHunter457]

So I've been discussing with other players about a change some of us have noticed that happened in the Herbert update.

This is the removal of the ability to gene mod traits such as brain slugs, cyborg, speed demon traits, etc...

There have been a lot of posts in bug reports one being from myself that ask about this issue. So far they have all been marked "As intended" but so far have not heard any responses as to why.

I can understand the reasoning behind not wanting to have super pops stacked with all of the best traits, but I feel like this was the wrong way to go about it.

Is there any chance we can open up a dialogue about this issue to at least hear why this issue was resolved this way?

I think we would all appreciate any insight you all have in this.

 

[TrotBot]

So I've been discussing with other players about a change some of us have noticed that happened in the Herbert update.

This is the removal of the ability to add traits such as brain slugs, cyborg, speed demon traits, etc...

There have been a lot of posts in bug reports one being from myself that ask about this issue. So far they have all been marked "As intended" but so far have not heard any responses as to why.

I can understand the reasoning behind not wanting to have super pops stacked with all of the best traits, but I feel like this was the wrong way to go about it.

Is there any chance we can open up a dialogue about this issue to at least hear why this issue was resolved this way?

I think we would all appreciate any insight you all have in this.

what do you mean, removal? do you mean you can't add them by console command anymore? or do you mean that the events that grant these traits are gone?

 

[Losttruppen]

I think he means that when these traits are added to a portion of your pops, you are unable to change everyone else into that template. If so I am completely against this change.

 

[DemonHunter457]

what do you mean, removal? do you mean you can't add them by console command anymore? or do you mean that the events that grant these traits are gone?

Sorry I meant the fact that you can no longer gene mod these traits onto your other people. Say I have 12 humans and 4 have the brain slug trait. I can no longer use gene modding to give the trait to the other 8 humans.

This goes for a lot of special / event given traits.

I edited my post to make that more obvious.

 

[DemonHunter457]

I think he means that when these traits are added to a portion of your pops, you are unable to change everyone else into that template. If so I am completely against this change.

Yes this is what I meant sorry for the confusion.

It was a change listed under bug fixes in the last change log. Not that I noticed that until I went out of my way to look for it after my bug report was marked as working as intended.

 

[klopkr]

Sorry I meant the fact that you can no longer gene mod these traits onto your other people. Say I have 12 humans and 4 have the brain slug trait. I can no longer use gene modding to give the trait to the other 8 humans.

This goes for a lot of special / event given traits.

I edited my post to make that more obvious.

That's frustrating because straggler pop types are so common in this game. I can have 100% brainslugs and then a colony lands and suddenly I have permanently non-slugged people? Feels weird.

 

[Losttruppen]

That's frustrating because straggler pop types are so common in this game. I can have 100% brainslugs and then a colony lands and suddenly I have permanently non-slugged people? Feels weird.

Yeah to claim this as a bug fix after it has worked this way for almost 5 years to my understanding is strange. If anything this was fixing several other bugs, as now there is no way of fixing when psyonic isn't applied properly for example.

 

[DemonHunter457]

Yeah to claim this as a bug fix after it has worked this way for almost 5 years to my understanding is strange. If anything this was fixing several other bugs, as now there is no way of fixing when psyonic isn't applied properly for example.

Well as long as you have the Psionic Ascension Perk you can still assimilate them. You just won't be able to apply the template however.

 

[Strangedane]

For the brain slugs it makes sense.
The event litterally tell you they will only bond with volunteers, so being able to force it on the entire population was weird.
Besides, it was a bad idea to apply it too all pops anyway, as the leaders have a fixed chance of getting brainslugs and the growth penalty was sorta harsh.

 

[Halfedead_Harry]

Changing special world preference(gaia, habitat, ring and tomb) is also impossible. I can uderstand it for too strong tomb world preference or for habitat preference, since void dweller trait is also unremovable. But for ring and gaia world preferences it seems too harsh. They don't give species any bonuses, but lock them out of setteling any other planets without AP or baol relic.

 

[Calvax]

This was a very random and unwanted change. I can’t remember anyone asking for this, or any discussion about why it’s needed.

It would be one thing if the species tab and genemodding system was smooth but it’s not. Play anything but a Xenophobe and eventually your list becomes full of minor species to the point it’s tedious to do anything with them.

 

[Dragatus]

So to clarify, you can now no longer apply a template with a special trait to a species that doesn't have the special trait? So for example you can only mod pops into a brain slug species if they already have the brain slug trait?

That's a shame. I'd understand doing such for (Latent) Psionic and Cyborg as that's basically cheating your way into benefiting from ascension perks you didn't take, but stacking event traits wasn't problematic and synth ascension was still dominant despite it all.

 

[Ferrus Animus]

That's frustrating because straggler pop types are so common in this game. I can have 100% brainslugs and then a colony lands and suddenly I have permanently non-slugged people? Feels weird.

And if you can't control growth, those unslugged pops will keep multiplying.
Also affects the traits gained from the alien box, the enigmatic cache or self-modification and such.

You can only apply a template with these traits to pops that already have that, so every event while you have a colony ship on the way splits genemodding your species in categories.
So depending on how your game goes you can have to manage half a dozen subspecies now.
And it also removes the ability to modify out of restricted habitabilities from origins, while migration pacts and robots are still easier to get.

Frankly I dislike the change. It creates more micro, more inconvenience and has no positive side.
Most of these traits are already miniscule in effect so stacking them was not a balance issues, and combining the ascensions is enough effort that a few percentage points more output are a nice non-gamebreaking reward for it. The leader traits are explicitely programmed to not stack already.

 

[Winddbourne]

Perhaps you COULD consider it a "fix" if the biological ascension perk removed the restriction? Sure its harsh to force people to purge unwanted sub species, carefully manage their colony ships, or even avoid migration treaties to keep from getting spammed with them but we can make that work.

The real thing is that the ascension STILL wouldn't be competitive. To really make it a FIX you'd have to add more beneficial traits that can be modded onto (or removed from) a species ONLY if you took the ascension perk. Perhaps even let them unlock something equivalent to the spawning pools for that +2 pop build rate that robots and hive minds get.

Obviously that's not what they did . . . but I can see calling this a "fix" IF it went with such a re-balance. As is I'd call it a bug too. It doesn't add anything to the game, further nerfs a weaker ascension path, and makes a number of existing problems worse.

Perhaps "as intended" but your intentions weren't good Devs. Please try to do better.

 

[Andy_Dandy]

Lifeseeded habitability isn't even a benefitial trait in any way, shape or form. What are Paradox thinking? Changing habitability to desert preferance should be possible.

 

[KNakamura]

Removed; unnecessarily confrontational- apologies

Lifeseeded habitability isn't even a benefitial trait in any way, shape or form. What are Paradox thinking? Changing habitability to desert preferance should be possible.

Probably that unique traits that are narrativly not something you can change at will, and that traits meant to provide drawbacks shouldn't be removable.

 

[Archael90]

I havnt find aby problem with this.
Its less convinient that i have to assimilata all non psychic pop, i cant gene mod all when just one was assimilated, and i suffer huge stability drop ;/ yet i find this more immersive.
(Tho slug host trait should be added to more than few pops)

 

[Zentay]

I really hate the self-modification event triggered by the genetic modification tech and now I can't even modify the new species it creates back to the original one. Awful. To me the self-modifcation event felt more like a punishment than the benefit it's meant to be.

Also when trying to modify the self-modified species (with the original species having lifeseeded origin), the interface had a bug where it kept playing a sound on repeat as if it was trying to do something and failing.

 

[Ronin Szaky]

This was a very random and unwanted change. I can’t remember anyone asking for this, or any discussion about why it’s needed.

It would be one thing if the species tab and genemodding system was smooth but it’s not. Play anything but a Xenophobe and eventually your list becomes full of minor species to the point it’s tedious to do anything with them.

Totally agree! After all, there is a reason this matter popped up under Bug Reports like half a dozen times already.

Perhaps you COULD consider it a "fix" if the biological ascension perk removed the restriction? Sure its harsh to force people to purge unwanted sub species, carefully manage their colony ships, or even avoid migration treaties to keep from getting spammed with them but we can make that work.

The real thing is that the ascension STILL wouldn't be competitive. To really make it a FIX you'd have to add more beneficial traits that can be modded onto (or removed from) a species ONLY if you took the ascension perk. Perhaps even let them unlock something equivalent to the spawning pools for that +2 pop build rate that robots and hive minds get.

Obviously that's not what they did . . . but I can see calling this a "fix" IF it went with such a re-balance. As is I'd call it a bug too. It doesn't add anything to the game, further nerfs a weaker ascension path, and makes a number of existing problems worse.

Perhaps "as intended" but your intentions weren't good Devs. Please try to do better.

If the Devs are really intent on the change, then Engineered Evolution and/or Evolutionary Mastery ascension perks should definitely circumvent the restrictions.


Personally, I love genemodding and event specific traits so this "bug fix" is likely to negatively affect many of my future playthroughs.

 

[TrotBot]

whatever concerns went into this change, it kinda goes against the "main character" goal of genemodding a species. yes we want them to be ridiculously perfect, it's so cool. i'll miss my erudite fertile cyborg psychics