Helping loyal vassal against disloyal vassal =Badboy?

[Judge]

It seems that helping a vassal that asks for help against a former vassal (disloyal) gives you BB point. If that observation is correct isn’t that a bit too harsh? After all helping one of you vassals is what you are supposed to do. I don’t think you should get BB for helping your loyal vassal against the murky one.

 

[Sute]{h]

Also if you enter a war on behalf of the loyal vassal and you conquer his unloyal subjects demense shouldn't you be able to return the unloyal subject to his former master aka your own vassal? I don't find petty counties worth claiming simply to restore the status quo. Why should I bare the burden of badboy to ensure that my vassal can keep his own vassals in line?

 

[Judge]

Also if you enter a war on behalf of the loyal vassal and you conquer his unloyal subjects demense shouldn't you be able to return the unloyal subject to his former master aka your own vassal? I don't find petty counties worth claiming simply to restore the status quo. Why should I bare the burden of badboy to ensure that my vassal can keep his own vassals in line?

That sounds logical. Should be one of the peace-options, besides when you fight one of your own disloyal vassals there should be an option to make the vassal recognize your supremacy and that shouldn´t give badboy since you restore SQuo (like force vassalization in EU 2

 

[unmerged(21447)]

Well, personally, I simply crush the rebelling vassal's army, and hen siege his province with my marshall - NOT my king. The duke he rebelled from always seem to notice and come "steal" my siege, and then later reannex him, and all is well...

Well, except that I do make a note to reclaim his ducal coronet somewhere in the future, I don't need vassals that can't keep their own vassals in line

 

[Judge]

Well, personally, I simply crush the rebelling vassal's army, and hen siege his province with my marshall - NOT my king. The duke he rebelled from always seem to notice and come "steal" my siege, and then later reannex him, and all is well...

Well, except that I do make a note to reclaim his ducal coronet somewhere in the future, I don't need vassals that can't keep their own vassals in line

That´s a smart way out and I hope you don´t get BB for answering the call from the loyal vassal then...

 

[InnocentIII]

I've gotten BB as well just putting down a revolt. You cannot re-install the original vassal, you have to conquer the province and remove him or else lose the province.

I suppose otherwise it would be exploitable (deliberately drive down loyalty until revolt), but there ought to be fewer BB points given when you take back your own lands.

 

[Ubersandwich]

I suppose otherwise it would be exploitable (deliberately drive down loyalty until revolt), but there ought to be fewer BB points given when you take back your own lands.

I generally agree with this, too. Not to elimintate the BB penalty, but to lessen it somewhat for your taking care of internal affairs.

 

[Judge]

Well if your vassal challenge you and you force him to return to status quo i.e. once again becoming vassal there shouldn’t be any BB penalty (requires this option to exist like in E U2). Your other vassals should regard it as quite acceptable that you force an obedient vassal to once again assume the vassal role. If you grab the title of the vassal, now that’s another matter and should be penalized though not as much as if you had been the agressor

 

[Carewolf2]

Also the BB you get from putting your vassels back in line is _massive_ it seems to be bigger or as big, as being on an expansive conquest in christian lands. After putting down 3 revolt I went from "slightly tarnished" to "worse than dishonorable scum".

 

[Phystarstk]

The problem here is that it begins a cycle. Right now, I can't even install vassals because they rebel, literally, in around 2-3 years. So, here I am with a king with like 2 stewardship and a steward with only like 7 stewardship, and I have to control like 14 demesene. My piety tick tocks away because of crusade expectations, and I have no ecclesiastical men to put in as Bishops... not that it matters because they'd rebel anyway. How the heck can I be expected to get out of this funk other than just waiting for my 80 piety to knock down my BB over like 2 centuries?

It all started when I had just a tarnished reputation and a really disloyal vassal (the only disloyal vassal) rebelled and I had to take him out. Next thing I knew, this angered another guy JUST ENOUGH to rebel. Thus starting a chain reaction.

 

[Judge]

The badboy needs some tweaking. It is easy to get enough piety to steam roll Europe but this is not realistic and it makes the game a bit boring since you always should go on a crusade first and then jump on the Christians. It should be possible to play a successful peninsular game too without having to smash the Moslems first and get tons of piety. This includes dealing with disloyal vassals without getting many BB points.

An idea could be to reduce Badboy points for attacking Christians (if you have a claim or try to fight rebel vassals) and lower the piety influence on badboy to prevent exploits. Then the Moslems should be tougher and if you conquer too many Moslem provinces there should be a Jihad against you (badboy wars). The cost for army maintenance should be higher and the gold spamming in peace offers should be lowered.