Help with vassal religion/converiton

[Andrei Cuza]

So I've just started a new run with Muscovy hoping to get the Russia achievement.

Some 20 odd years pass by and I find myself annexing and releasing Kazan as a vassal, knowing he'll get my religion. Which he did. Unfortunately for me that's all I got.

Kazan proudly displayed Orthodoxy as state religion without going the next step and actually converting the individual provinces from Sunni to Orthodox.

Later in the run I decided to experiment and after a costly war with Nogai, I annexed an converted the capital myself then released Nogai as a vassal. Lo and behold they where converting people like it was the second coming.

My noob question is this: Is this how it's supposed to be ? What's the purpose of the vassal getting the lords religion if he won't convert ?

I've read the (now out of date) wiki and I couldn't find anything related to vassals converting religion. I do know the vassal only changes state religion if the lord has a different religion group. That happened as advertised. I've also skimmed the latest patch updates but couldn't find anything of use.

But do I really need to change the capital religion of the annexed vassal every time before I release him ?

I mean, I could just go oppressing people with my Orthodox Patriarchy (hue) but that seems a bit like putting the cart before the horse.

Any thoughts ? I'm using 1.8 vanilla btw.

 

[IIWW]

Sunni has a -2% missionary strangh (they are harder to convert), so it might just be that Kazan couldn't convert some/all provinces.

 

[Andrei Cuza]

Sunni has a -2% missionary strangh (they are harder to convert), so it might just be that Kazan couldn't convert some/all provinces.

Well Nogai also had Sunni as state and province religion and they had no problems converting all of them. And Kazan had some nice 2 base tax provinces that could've been easily converted but that didn't happen.

On a side note, the AI for that country behaved slightly odd. It was just spamming units and buildings, but the units never actually moved even while at war and their provinces under attack.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

No, converting their capital doesn't have anything to do with it.

Nogai takes Religious as its first idea, Kazan as its last, so Kazan might not really have been capable of converting things in a reasonable time. On top of that, Kazan also has a bunch of tolerance for heathens in its idea set, so they don't really care that much about provinces having the wrong religion.

 

[unmerged(761498)]

Did Kazan manage to take Humanism?

 

[Andrei Cuza]

Did Kazan manage to take Humanism?

Is there a way I could check ? I looked around their diplo page but didn't see anything.

 

[clockworkBabbag]

Is there a way I could check ? I looked around their diplo page but didn't see anything.

On the upper-right part of the diplo screen, there's a box with a bunch of information about the country in question. Mouse over the lightbulb icon to bring up a tooltip that shows what ideas they have.

 

[IIWW]

Is there a way I could check ? I looked around their diplo page but didn't see anything.

hover over this:

 

[Andrei Cuza]

On the upper-right part of the diplo screen, there's a box with a bunch of information about the country in question. Mouse over the lightbulb icon to bring up a tooltip that shows what ideas they have.

So Kazan has Kazani/Admin/Trade ideas with +2 in tolerance to heathens and heretics while Nogai has 7 religious ideas. I'm guessing that's my problem.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

Did Kazan manage to take Humanism?

Kazan does not take Humanism.

historical_idea_groups = {
	administrative_ideas
	trade_ideas
	quantity_ideas
	expansion_ideas
	offensive_ideas
	economic_ideas
	defensive_ideas
	religious_ideas
}

But like I said, they get +2 heathen tolerance anyway, so they do behave somewhat like a country with Humanism.

 

[Andrei Cuza]

That's all well in good but now I feel slightly cheated, as a lord.

Can't have my vassals disobeying my word, what will the other lords think of me ?

But seriously, will they eventually convert the provinces by themselves or should I do it ?

Also is there a way to tell if certain states will present this kind of problem in the future or is this a "deal with it" moment ?

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

That's all well in good but now I feel slightly cheated, as a lord.

Can't have my vassals disobeying my word, what will the other lords think of me ?

But seriously, will they eventually convert the provinces by themselves or should I do it ?

Also is there a way to tell if certain states will present this kind of problem in the future or is this a "deal with it" moment ?

I tend to assume that none of my vassals will convert anything until admin 10 or something like that. You could look through the countries/x.txt file of any specific country you're looking to release to see their historical ideagroups, and find the ones that take religious ideas early. But for most people that is probably going a bit far

 

[Illianor123]

Just get Najd or Iraq as your vassal and feed them the land

 

[Andrei Cuza]

I tend to assume that none of my vassals will convert anything until admin 10 or something like that. You could look through the countries/x.txt file of any specific country you're looking to release to see their historical ideagroups, and find the ones that take religious ideas early. But for most people that is probably going a bit far

Yea not gonna happen. Although it would be nice if such things where marked in some way, or at least hinted.

Also I've restarted the run anyway, was faffing about the last 40 years and I failed at Westernizing (never again!)

And I had such a great start too, was feeding Pskov with bits and pieces of Novgorod and Perm with bits and pieces of Novgorod and Kazan. I was literally shelling myself with vassals :]

 

[ktk1212]

I've also noticed a bug where Vassals won't use missionaries until you reload the game, or sometimes they'll randomly stop using them and won't again until you re-load the game. So you can try that as well.

 

[Thrake]

When I want vassals to convert provinces to Orthodox, I usually give it either to Perm (religious as 1st idea group), or Byzantium (they have missionary strength in their NI and pick religious later as well so they are really good at converting).

 

[nicechinos]

When I want vassals to convert provinces to Orthodox, I usually give it either to Perm (religious as 1st idea group), or Byzantium (they have missionary strength in their NI and pick religious later as well so they are really good at converting).

Perm is the real thing in that sense. Core tatar provinces, sell them to Perm until it accepts them (not difficult) and converts them. However, it will cut Muscovy off colonisation for some time.

 

[nicechinos]

Yea not gonna happen. Although it would be nice if such things where marked in some way, or at least hinted.

Also I've restarted the run anyway, was faffing about the last 40 years and I failed at Westernizing (never again!)

And I had such a great start too, was feeding Pskov with bits and pieces of Novgorod and Perm with bits and pieces of Novgorod and Kazan. I was literally shelling myself with vassals :]

Selling same cultural group/right religion lands to vassals is not beneficial in AOW. These will start with 75% autonomy when you annex a vassal. Straightaway coring is highly preferable.

 

[SonofWinter]

First, as a Christian in the beginning, your conversion sucks, hard. Not until ADM lvl. 15 will a standard nation have the basic ability to convert anything over BT (Base Tax) 1 or 2.

In the beginning game, you found that Kazan, like Muscovy, like Poland, like France, is unable to convert wrong religion provinces. This is WAD (Working As Designed), try playing France and see if you can convert Muslim provinces, sorry no dice.

Then later in the game Nogai, converted the heck out of its lands because it probably had a higher ADM level and thus it was able to do so, this again is WAD.

Conversions are not meant to be easy, they are meant to force you to huff and puff, to blow that house down. A mass conversion on a scale we are talking about takes a lot of ingredients.

A touch of compassion.
A pinch of terror.
Two teaspoons of pain and suffering.
And a good dose of reward.
Sprinkle in deportations, disenfranchisement, and settlements.
Half a cup of public executions.
100g of relentlessness.
A dollop of brainwashing.
Finally, a handful of zealots and fanatics.

And voila, you've got yourself a mass conversion. Its a very complicated recipe and countries in the "good 'ol days" took decades if not centuries to design their own so at the beginning of the game, mass conversion is a thankless job but it gets easier as the decades roll by and your country refines is processes. The same goes for your vassals. Basically, don't expect it to be easy for your vassals if its not easy for you.

 

[Galu]

As a russia I would also take humanism and so on, I mean converting half of Asia end Europe can be fun but I prefer to focus my attention elswhere so religious peace is what I want, not some funky crusades ;-)