Help with Poland

[Dr. Crabnipples]

So everytime i get around to forming commonwealth, and sometimes Prussia as PLC. Its always around 1510-1550 the ottomans start sniffing around and wreck me with massive 150k armies, and they just keep on attacking me. Even an alliance with austria cant save me, as hungary also gets gobbled up to their massive onslaught. Muscovy usually just leaves me alone, but they stay rivaled so they never help.

Some games ill have good income, sometimes terrible debt. depending on the RNG of teutonic alliances.but everytime Ottomans march in with their doomstacks. what can i do differntly? what is the optimal strategy to really succeed. And i need more advice than "Git Gud"

 

[jdavis86]

Hmm I'm not a Poland expert but here are some generic tips. Not sure what exactly the issue is without more context.

Yeah I'd restart until you have a good opening shot at Danzig. Set all the Crimean provinces to vital interest so Lithuania fabricates on them. After the war with TO, start picking away at Crimea (don't feed Lithuania too much of course). Also, any of those Russian minors that end up alone should be gobbled up before Muscovy gets them.

Set Moldavia to a regular vassal and integrate them when you can (after Mazovia).

After the first two wars you have options, depending on how the game develops. If you annex Livonian order, then you can start feeding yourself parts of Russia. (Once again can't feed Lithuania too much). Going west might be ok too depending on alliances and what happens to Hungary.

The general idea is to make sure Ottomans never get Crimea, and keep good defensive forts in narrow positions with terrain bonuses.

Stay at least on par if not ahead in mil tech, good composition, ideas etc. Should be able to afford army drilling eventually.

Also, make sure your vassals are set to support, and keep maybe 2 stacks of 3-4 infantry for them to attach to. There is still an annoying delay when using these stacks to attack (your troops get there first and the AI vassal support a tick later, so they take morale hit). But, using them in defensive positions won't be a problem.

It goes without saying but Poland has one of the best military idea sets in the game...if you're not winning battles constantly then something under the hood probably isn't right. Granted Poland needs a bit more time to grow into them.

 

[Dr. Crabnipples]

thats what i do. ottos just move through europe like a steamroller. even if i have crimea that doesnt stop them from taking out hungary, or setting eyes on moldavia

 

[Dominion]

If both Russia and Ottomans are still alive at this point you're too slow. But even then you can win as long as they don't ally each other.

Just keep up in tech, pick more mil ideas early on (maybe even go full mil) and loan a bit.
Full mil ideas probably even lets you take on both at once.

 

[Ironside121]

Ottomans can be dealt with easily around that time. Everyone says take them down early- and that's the best advice. Especially with Mamluks being stronger- so putting them on a two front war there is your best bet. But it's not a neccessity. Quite often in my Poland games I'm fighting the Ottomans at this time. You should've already been in control of the Baltic and most of Novgorod here, meaning you're rich as hell and can afford a lot more men. If you haven't done that then your early game just isn't aggressive enough.

Get a tech advantage over Muscovy and hit them when they're at war with a group of Hordes. It's fairly smooth sailing from there since that first war will cripple them. It's the best way to do it if you don't feel confident to risk an early war with the Ottomans.

 

[Xaster]

Well, It may be a bit of bad luck, since it's generally better to fight the Ottomans around late '500-'600 when you have developed your commonwealth enough.
Generally, having a strong ally should help you, but having two strong allies should help you even more; it depends on how the game is running, what kind of ideas sets you chose... many variables, after all.
With the right set of choices, Poland can
a) have Prussia as a march, i.e. a support army that can obliterate even the Ottoman doomstacks.
b) have extra powerful cavalry that, in concert with defensive infantry, can at least balance Ottoman's army strength and often beating them.
c) hopefully find a way to siege on both sides of the Ottoman empire, giving them a difficult time (AI gets easily distracted if you attack from Croatia, Moldavia and Georgia at the same time, and at least one of the three fronts can be yours).

As far as I know, the first two wars are the more problematic with the Ottomans, since you need a loooooot of time to be able to fight them and wear them down, that means you need secure borders (possibly alliances or very good relations with almost all of your neighbors).

Also, do not forget forts! Anatolia is full of them and that's an extra help for the evil turks, but you can use the mountains and some of Moldavia and Hungary territory at your advantage, depleting your enemies manpower.

 

[gia257]

So everytime i get around to forming commonwealth, and sometimes Prussia as PLC. Its always around 1510-1550 the ottomans start sniffing around and wreck me with massive 150k armies, and they just keep on attacking me. Even an alliance with austria cant save me, as hungary also gets gobbled up to their massive onslaught. Muscovy usually just leaves me alone, but they stay rivaled so they never help.

Some games ill have good income, sometimes terrible debt. depending on the RNG of teutonic alliances.but everytime Ottomans march in with their doomstacks. what can i do differntly? what is the optimal strategy to really succeed. And i need more advice than "Git Gud"

tall play: get all the military ideas
blobbing: get byzantium as vassal, then, before the ottomans blob to size, reconquest all of byz cores (crusade, bring austria at least), ottomans will still blob east so you will need more wars to make it permanent, but you will have the advantage
religion: if you stay catholic remember to get papal sanction for war, extra taxes (until you get a good trade node), and declare crusade when you become controller (always invest at least twice if not thrice), be defender of the faith
estates: always push the button to get cossack horsies (until enough), and disband all your normal cavalry
your trade node sucks, you can grow to take sweden's trade node, england's, venice, genoa, or novgorod, decide on one and push to get it all (sweden is probably easiest, genoa gives the most money but you will have already beat the ottomans on this route anyway)

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

Is there a way to make Poland a horde? Would make for an interesting stomp given Poland's bonuses

 

[gia257]

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Formable_countries

 

[grommile]

blobbing: get byzantium as vassal, then,

Idle curiosity: How do you get an army to Constantinople to besiege it? Ottomans won't give either party in a POL-BYZ war military access.

(I'm perfectly prepared to believe your answer is "declare war on TUR", but I don't want to jump to conclusions )

 

[Dominion]

Idle curiosity: How do you get an army to Constantinople to besiege it? Ottomans won't give either party in a POL-BYZ war military access.

(I'm perfectly prepared to believe your answer is "declare war on TUR", but I don't want to jump to conclusions )

DoW Wallachia, Ottos will give them mil acc immediately.
On older patches you got mil acc from them because you were at war with their rival.
Or you could simply improve relations. They don't always rival you.

Or you man up and nocb Ottos too. And Hungary. And Muscovy. You are death, destroyer of worlds. Make them suffer eternally in the razed lands you left them.

 

[gia257]

Idle curiosity: How do you get an army to Constantinople to besiege it? Ottomans won't give either party in a POL-BYZ war military access.

(I'm perfectly prepared to believe your answer is "declare war on TUR", but I don't want to jump to conclusions )

that works

but https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Diplomacy#Ask_for_military_access
byz is likely to get access if they want to, or you can send a diplomat

Another way, support rebels

Another, ship them off one by one , I mean, to get byz vassal you only need one province, feel free to dow the ottos for it

 

[grommile]

DoW Wallachia, Ottos will give them mil acc immediately.

Neatly done.

Entertainingly, in the playthrough I just started, Hungary and the Ottomans both decided to guarantee Wallachia, and the Ottomans won't give me MA because they want Bessarabia so have gone Hostile.

 

[jdavis86]

Fired up a Poland game here, and noticed that if you and Austria both rival Bohemia, Austria (emperor) won't defend them in a war. Wonder when this got changed?

Anyway, once Bohemia annexes Silesia they're a very easy target. A bit challenging with AE if you've done your two wars with Teutonic Order. If Austria outgrows Bohemia and lose the rival then this won't work.

So maybe another option for opening would be to feed Lithuania or Moldavia, then hit Bohemia for an easy grab of Silesia. That means TO much later than normal, but at least you'll never (usually) have to fight the Emperor for them. Hmm...

 

[Dominion]

Barely any reason to go into Bohemia as Poland. You want to take Ottos out asap, then get Muscovy before they explode.

If you start walking into the HRE all you're gonna get is AE and a goldmine.
Trade gets pulled from all those minors, BOHs provinces have ICC and fully annexing them won't work in an appropriate time.

Sure, you can still do it. The only goal is to survive until tech32.
But you gotta ally one of them asap or else they'll eat you.

 

[Dr. Crabnipples]

Okay, when you say get all the military ideas, what should i be getting? should i bother with the Espianage/aristocratic, or go diplomatic and something else. and how to take on ottomans by myself? i dont start with much of a navy. and at what time should i be finishing these conquests? Muscovy ottomans, TO, LO, and Kalmar union, is alot to have on ones plate.

 

[Viktor Vaughn]

The only reason to go after Bohemia at the start is if you can force the union. This is tricky cause Austria has to rival them, you need the jagiellon event to fire fast, you need to get prestige fast (bohemia starts with more than poland at game start), and then you need the jagiellon to get the throne on Bohemia, all before the Poderbad event fires. It's annoying to get the conditions right, and even then it can cripple your early game as you spend a bunch of manpower in that war and then you have to invest so much diplomatically to get Bohemia to actually like you

Poland is one of the nations that gets good cavalry ideas, so it makes sense to invest in military ideas that further boost cav. So aristocratic and quality are both good for that.

 

[sigeena]

What are your National Ideas? For Poland, I like to take Aristocracy, Espionage and Offensive. And hope to roll a high shock general. My ratio is very high on Cav, so if there's 32 Combat width. I'll set up a 20 inf - 12 cav ratio.

 

[gia257]

Okay, when you say get all the military ideas, what should i be getting? should i bother with the Espianage/aristocratic, or go diplomatic and something else. and how to take on ottomans by myself? i dont start with much of a navy. and at what time should i be finishing these conquests? Muscovy ottomans, TO, LO, and Kalmar union, is alot to have on ones plate.

iirc your NI "suck" until the final ones, meaning once you are on your 3rd an 4th idea unlock you get all your potential power (unlike france which gets its major boost on the first idea unlock, or milan -is it?- that gets infantry combat right from the start)

you want quantity plus two, or three of quality/offensive/defensive/aristocratic depending on how weak you feel compared to ottomans

quantity wont boost your power, will boost your manpower recovery, and your numbers (to try to match ottomans, who not only tend to pick it but also have forcelimit as part of national ideas), so if you have trouble with your manpower -likely-, this will fix that

defensive if taken early will give you the morale boost you wont get until later, not much else i feel. Morale is important if you can stack it so much that the ottomans start at 75% of yours, if so, you can count it as a power boost. You will need high prestige, PP, army tradition, being defender of the faith and so on for this.

quality and offensive will boost your troops properly to match/beat the ottomans 1 to 1

aristocratic will boost your horses and let you have military tech earlier, it is good to attack the ottomans when you are ahead

it is important to have decent economy so you can build mercenaries if your manpower dies off, ottomans are able to pull that off because their troops recovery is limitless, so for admin ideas pick whatever will give you a good military policy or something that will boost your economy properly, eg innovative or economics, but if you wont stay tall and start to blob admin would work i guess, as you will inherit the ottomans economy (their lands).

early on, specially if you pick defensive and get the morale, go for a morale advisor, later on go for discipline.

If you wont go tall, if you want to blob, you shouldnt be getting so many military ideas. One tops. You want the default ones (admin influence religious diplomatic and so on)

First war you dont want navies, and wont be able to get many ships anyway. You want to get your side of the strait so that next war you can cross it. It is possible to cross the strait on the first war (or just go around the other side), but only try that after you fully occupy the left side.

While galleys are best vs ottomans, I tend to go for 10 heavies 20 lights 20 transports with an admiral (more general purpose) and that wont utterly defeat a prime ottoman, only a dying one, after two major wars, your goal in any case wont be to defeat the navies, but to keep them in port, if it is possible in the first place, you stay in port otherwise.

 

[jdavis86]

Barely any reason to go into Bohemia as Poland. You want to take Ottos out asap, then get Muscovy before they explode.

If you start walking into the HRE all you're gonna get is AE and a goldmine.
Trade gets pulled from all those minors, BOHs provinces have ICC and fully annexing them won't work in an appropriate time.

Sure, you can still do it. The only goal is to survive until tech32.
But you gotta ally one of them asap or else they'll eat you.

Yeah this makes sense. I just see "same cultural group" and "Poland region" in Silesia and think GIVE ME!!!!

Easy to grab it in later game I suppose.

Going to give your opener with Byz a try .