Help with France

[CommanderC]

As it is, I checked the Army Comparisons and I never eliminated a single Axis unit with my Reims/Namur pocket or my Ghent/Dunkerque plans (All that for nothing?). It seems it is extremely hard to eliminate enemy units without that full encirclement. I couldn’t kill them with air Ground Attack missions when they were retreating either, and I bombed the heck out of them. All I did was push them back.

rman114 - As it turns out, I was wrong about this.... Not the first time, He, He! After I sent Mr. Juin on a "Blitzkrieg" of his own, I notice the German units are still retreating out of Riems from my first go round I ended so dissapointed with. (My above quote.)

Well, with the Calais encirclement completed, I redirect my air back to the Reims area... More daylight Ground Attack missions, concentrated air power. I knew this lone retreating unit was in real trouble with his low strength. I watched it fade away. Gone, eliminated. So the Reims strategy keeps them off balance and I can pick a few units off with my air as they retreat. Nice to know I was doing it right all along. I just didn't keep the air at it long enough - you need to give them time to do the job (I'm also working with Lvl I CAS and TAC). You don't neccessarily need to have a full encirclement for elimination. If they are in retreat, you can get them by air.

Got 'Em Running In Reims - INF In Deep Doodoo


These are very good signs for my game. I am now starting to do more than just hang in there.

 

[CommanderC]

Well i played a bit yesterday and here's the deal.
The German's annexed Poland which i knew was going to prevent me from gaining much ground as the Germans reinforce the border with the units from Poland. I made an attempt on Stutggart since i capture Frieberg but that failed.
I have about 65 divisions in Frieberg and the Maginot line province by Luxemborg. Facing them is about 80 German divisions. They made 2 attempts at knocking me out of Frieberg and came close. I had 4 TACs doing interdiction supporting the defence and my other large force made an all out assault both times to take pressure off Frieberg...it worked, barely. luckily the Germans appeared somewhat focused on hitting Belgium and Netherlands but seem a bit confused because...

By Capturing Frieberg the Germans have about 60 divisions bordering that, which is a significant number taken from their forces to hit Belgium and such.

I took control of Great Britain and have been attempting to open a Northern front by Denmark. I made 3 attempts but all 3 failed but luckily i didn't loose the forces. The first 2 times failed because of attempting to land too many divisions and getting a stacking penalty...duh. One time i never landed and was lucky to escape because a large German surface fleet sortied.

Between naval bombers, strat bombers, and a moderate carrier battleship force(i'm glad i had battleships with carrers) i have eliminated a good portion of the German surface fleet.
The assaults, though they failed did have the added pro of pulling German units from the Border with Belgium and Netherlands. I'm hoping by getting my 12 British divisions on a beachhead i could pull some units North and thus pull pressure from Belgium.

I am also increasing my relations with Italy. I have no idea if that means anything because i can't remember when Italy declares against France and allies with Germany. I figure it must happen when Germany Invades Belgium and such. But hey, it's worth a try nonetheless.

If Italy allies with Germany and declares then North Africa will be rough because there are no French units there and a smattering of British militia.

rman114 - Sounds like you have your hands full. Your game is so much different from mine. You have the equivalent of my entire land force in only two provinces! That's a bunch of units.

Is it hard trying to control the Brits? Seems like a lot more to do when you play. And now you're an damned Admiral too... Nice work on taking down the Kriegsmarine

You must be getting close to figuring out those amphibious landings. You've tried in I think two different games now. I read on the forum that you really shouldn't try that unless you have Marines. What is your opinion on this?

Say, how much impact do those 4 TAC have on those large German formations? If you are Interdicting 80 some divisions in just a few provinces, that seems to be a large bombing order for only 4 TAC. How many TAC do you have? How many CAS? Are you concentrating your airpower in a smaller specific region, or spreading it around? When I'm serious about a particular area on the game map, I send all TAC and CAS to Interdict in a small area.

Speaking of bombing... Ever notice how several provinces make up an area that is targeted by your air? You just can't pick one specific province and concentrate on it alone with your air - that bugs the crap out of me. I want to bomb them here not there..... :wacko:

 

[Syppo]

Build lots of infantry and go on a offensiv the day germany attacks poland. Worked for me once.

 

[unmerged(45750)]

Hi Commander, Sorry i took so long to respond.

When i used the TACs for defence they were fairly effective at helping me out in those few attacks by large German formations in Frieberg. It was enough to be helpful i'm sure...interdiction of course.

I also find it annoying when planes attack the wrong province, especially if you want to soften up a province for attack. VERY annoying, oh well.
At least they go right to where battle is...i think in early version of this game aircraft frequently didn't even attcked where combat was occuring!

Ahhh so now my update. Things have gone downhill a bit. i landed several British divisons in occupied Denmark to open up that Northern front. It did pull some German units but not a significant amount. Also i ran into trouble opretty myuch from the beginning.
I was pounded by close to 10 or so airflots of a mix of TAC and CAS. Being those attacks forced my forces to stay put because if attacked while not dug in or lightly dug in caused them to either get decimated or very nearly decimated. Some divisions were completely destroyed by their airpower but i mangaed to push all the way to Hamburg.
Once i got there disaster struck. I dug in but the force holding my link to supply by the sea was ejected and i found myself out of supply. I pushed to the sea in north an east of hamburg hoping to get all the units near the sea. A strong german formation blocked me from evacuation by the North sea...i tried to get on the shore in the straits but i kept getting outmanuevered and it ended with a formation of 13 British divisions getting envoloped and destroyed...what a disaster!
I only managed to evacuate 2 divisions from Norway.

Almost immediately after that was taken care of the Germans invaded Belgium and Netherlands. I redeployed French troops to that border but didn't have time to move into Belgium. I have several Norwegian, Belgium, British and French divisons sharing the border and a large formation of German unit went into Reims. I allowed them to move in (about 25 divisions) with the hope that they would spead out and then i could close the door. The bad thing was the Germans kept the bulk of their units in Reims and only smattering actually moved deep and occupied Paris.

I then said screw this to myself and closed the door. I defeated the Germans in Reims and they withdrew. I then sent a force of 2 armoured and 3 cav against the province they were retreating to and captured it before they made it there.

I'm now not very sure what's going to happen? I should ask that question in the forum.

That's where i saved. It doesn't look so good though lol. Oh well. Italy isn't in the war though?

 

[CommanderC]

Ahhh so now my update. Things have gone downhill a bit. i landed several British divisons in occupied Denmark to open up that Northern front. It did pull some German units but not a significant amount. Also i ran into trouble opretty myuch from the beginning.

Hey rman114 - Looks like you finally got that amphibious landing in there. You seemed to work really hard at that. Too bad things went South on you. I'd say don't give in. Keep fighting. Think new, or rework old strategies in your game. I was about to cave in and start a new game as everything I was trying had little or no effect - or so I thought. As you can see from my previous posts, I kept at it to see where it would go. Things are pretty good now. My Coastal strategy worked once, so I thought I'd rest the formations for a bit and try it again with a different twist. More to come, got some screenies Ha, Ha! Unbelievable....

 

[Faeelin]

Has anyone tried using Blitzkrieg against the Germans?

That is, a small number of elite armored units with infantry support, encircling german units along the Channel coast?

 

[unmerged(56974)]

Blitzrkrieg plus the maginot line is the best way to go in DD, if you're playing France. With blitzkrieg and the maginot line, you can basically turn Belgium and the netherlands into a graveyard by randomly striking and encirciling forces that you send out from the maginot line, which should be filled with garrisons. Always make sure you can pull back into the line steadily tho, incase the germans try to encircle you. That combined with Allied air superiority will wittle down the German forces. Don;t forget to build a lot of interceptors though.

 

[CommanderC]

rman114 – I'm on a roll... Here is what I did…

Coastal/Reims Strategy Part II

The coastal strategy with full encirclement worked once in Calais, so I thought I’d try it a second time. Basically retreated by choice out of Dunkerque and Lille as just about all my units in the area were strength damaged and/or low on Org. Set my units down for a bit of rest and refit. By 1 July, 1940 the enemy reoccupies Dunkerque, Lille, and Reims. The enemy didn't advance deeper into Chaumont through Riems as I wanted. Started up an Interdiction campaign in both the Flanders-Benelux and Pas de Calais regions to start the softening up process; ignored Reims as this was not the main focus and the best I could hope for here was to force a retreat. Naval units would be sent to support with shore bombardment as the battle develops along the coast in Dunkerque and Ghent.

Two things I wanted to do here to help the main advance succeed:
1. Avoid attacking and moving across any rivers; too much of a cost with negative modifiers and movement times.
2. I wanted supporting attacks on both sides of the main advance to preempt any counter attacks by the enemy.

The main line of advance is from Amiens through Lille to Ghent. Hold in Calais and Valenciennes until Lille is occupied. After occupying Lille, attack Ghent with the best forces available from the battle in a second echelon attack. Along with the second echelon attack on Ghent from Lille; simultaneously launch one supporting attack from Calais to Dunkerque, and a second supporting attack from Valenciennes to Mons. This uses the sea as a barrier and we effectively cut off and surround anything in Dunkerque. I get to use part of the French Navy, that normally would be sitting idle, for Shore Bombardment missions. All these attacks avoid any river crossings.

Hit Reims from several directions as I did before and hopefully force a retreat. All attacks here avoid river crossings except for the units in Troyes.

The Coastal/Reims Strategy Part II Battle Plan


The Prize - Axis Armor Divisions Surrounded In Dunkerque (You can see his retreating units icon in Ghent)


Whoooo Hoooo! Now that was a plan. This took from July 1 to July 13 to surround Dunkerque and destroy those two armor divisions - almost two full weeks! I checked the National Army Comparisons on a save at the start on July 1 and the current game turn at July 18. It's really hard to believe what I see in the spreadsheet. The Germans lost 1 LArm and 5 Arm in the two week long battle - that's 6 Armored Divisions destroyed.

I know I got those two in Dunkerque for sure because I got a screenie for proof. I didn't see where I destroyed the rest... although I saw many other Armored Divisions while Interdicting by air and during the many land unit battles. Remember this took two weeks. There seemed to be German Armor everywhere along my route of advance. A couple of screenies here show what I encountered during the two week offensive.

Armor In Lille July 7


Air Support In Ghent July 10; Bombing Some Armor (You can see the low Org on the two armor divisions in this screenie, and they are also taking some Strength damage)


More than likely these armor units were taken out by air as they were forced to retreat out of Ghent and across the river as I bombed them with Ground Attack missions. And my two supporting attacks were successful, probably causing more retreating units that I didn't know about; the supporting attack on Mons definitely caused a retreat (see the retreating units icon in Mons in the above Armor In Lille July 7 screenie). In any case I didn't see the real damage I had done until I actually checked. His total force dropped from 210 divisions to 183 over that two week offensive. Since the game started, he’s dropped from 222 to 210 to 183 divisions. 90% or more taken out with the Coastal Strategy. Me, I have 65 French divisions.

I also defeated the units in Reims and they are on retreat. I wanted them to come deeper into Chaumont but they didn't. So I actually attacked them much later - 17 July. I'll be hitting them with more air Ground Attack missions as they retreat, again. Probably pick off a few more divisions.

 

[Bartieboy]

France vs Italy

I'm playing as France it's june 1940. Germany took Bel+Hol but do not dare invade France (Ligne Maginot from Swits to Dunkerque with lvl 10 forts) but Italy joined the Axis and now I'm at war with them, I have taken Genoa and about to take Turin. Is anybody in the same situation? Can France beat Italy?

 

[CommanderC]

Has anyone tried using Blitzkrieg against the Germans?

That is, a small number of elite armored units with infantry support, encircling german units along the Channel coast?

Faeelin - You Betcha... I've done it twice now - all details in this thread, including screenies. In those screenies, my 7'eme Corps d' Armee is a unit of 3 LArm I use as a fast armored force; no INF attached. I found that if I attach INF to the tanks, they slow the movement of the tank divisions down. I used a mixture of various INF and this 3 division Tank Corps in both successful attacks along the Channel Coast. The INF and Armor are under different commanders. This maximizes the Armor Corps movement rate.

 

[unmerged(47930)]

I'm playing as France it's june 1940. Germany took Bel+Hol but do not dare invade France (Ligne Maginot from Swits to Dunkerque with lvl 10 forts) but Italy joined the Axis and now I'm at war with them, I have taken Genoa and about to take Turin. Is anybody in the same situation? Can France beat Italy?

I would guess. Make sure to take the Alps before germany is going to help Italy. I'm playing Russia and saw the France AI making very good progress vs. Italy AI until the Germany AI came for help. France became Vichy two weeks later ...

 

[CommanderC]

Great Gobs Of Googly! I have been attacked in Grenoble by German troops.

rman114 - Seems that Italy has joined the axis and I'm in deep doodoo down near the Med. At first I thought, hmmmmm, that's quite an increase in air attacks down there.... Next thing I know, Bam! The AI has German troops attack me from Italy. Checked the diplomacy stats and sure enough, Italy is at war with France. My lone Mountain Division in Grenoble is in retreat.

This means I'm fighting a two front war. I also have no units in Africa. I'm currently sending some air units to Southern France (INT, FTR, TAC, and ESC FTR); now I know what to do with the other half of my French Air Force I wasn't using. I'm also rushing some land divisions down there including 1 of my LArm divisions. Got to send one of my HQ units as well. I hate to break up that three division Armored Corps but I need something with some punch, and that moves fast to reinforce down there. He isn't in Grenoble yet, but I imagine it won't be long - I might have to retake it. In any case, I need to reinforce the entire Grenoble, Nice, and Marsailles area. I'm assigning my Navy units in the Med orders to get them into action down there. All this diversion of units away from Northern Europe has me wondering if the AI is smart enough to intentionally spread my forces to weaken me and then try to overwhelm me up North. I do have some armor on the way in the production queue but my first unit won't come off the line until about a month and a half from now. And new INF units seem to be produced so slowly also. I'll just have to make due with what I have now.

Very unexpected turn of events. I was banking on Italy not joining until Paris and/or Vichy were taken. Hmmmmm. That's what I get for thinking. Looks like the AI got tired of me being too good for my britches in Northern Europe, so it attacks me in Southern Europe, He, He! This is going to make things really tough on me. I'll keep you posted as to my status next time I play.

 

[CommanderC]

rman114 - How's it going with your game? Had a chance to play any?

I sat down to give mine a go today. I was worried as of last post about the Italian border. Don't really know what gives down there because the AI had me by the ____s for sure. I only had two units in Grenoble and Nice. He had my Grenoble division retreating and my reinforcements a long ways away. I rushed in some air and got my posterior handed to me by a mix of German and Italian air. I brought that lone Grenoble unit back to Grenoble only to be whacked again and sent into retreat a second time. Eventually my reinforcements arrive what, almost two weeks after the first attack? I'm thinking the AI must have given me a break because all he had to do was waltz on in. Now I have air, 1 HQ, 1 LArm, 1 CAV, 2 INF reinforcing the perimeter, and a MNT INF on the way. Does the AI cut you slack down there or did I just get lucky?

Moving LArm out of the contested mountains to Nice; other reinforcements are arriving in this screenie.


Whooo Hoooo! Hanging on down there now....

 

[blue emu]

Have you been using your Mediterranean Fleet for Shore Bombardment?

They can support your defense of a province, too... not just support attacks. It gives your opponent a combat efficiency penalty, just like rough terrain does.

 

[CommanderC]

At the same time I'm sweating the Italian border, I'm setting up another offensive up in the Northeast. Plan is to force a retreat in Namur with first echelon attacks from several directions. Second echelon will drive from Namur to Antwerp; simulataneous attack from Ghent to Antwerp. Goal is to encircle Brussels. Supporting attacks on Arlon help to support my right flank along with the river on my Eastern border. Been resting the troops for about three or four days so they are ready to rock. Been Interdicting the entire attack area heavily for a week (I like air, air is the Bomb!).

Here's the Battle Plan to encircle Brussels


I hope this works. I have only two LArm now because one is on his way to Nice, He, He! I've made it to July 29; still 65 land divisions. Them - with Italy, they got a boatload of troops.

 

[unmerged(13991)]

I'm playing as France it's june 1940. Germany took Bel+Hol but do not dare invade France (Ligne Maginot from Swits to Dunkerque with lvl 10 forts) but Italy joined the Axis and now I'm at war with them, I have taken Genoa and about to take Turin. Is anybody in the same situation? Can France beat Italy?

In fact I did :

1) you have to take sardigna first, let one unitthere, and place one unit in corsica.

2) attack genoa, and then go for venice (one speahead), and the south of Italy (2 spearheads). then sicilly.

3) wait for Turin, you will simply encircled the Italian unit there + the german renforement send.

4) you will notice german army will move from BENELUX to their southern border.

5) when you units are rested, DOW yugoslavia, but do not invade, just crash the units that are near venice, yo uwill notice german units that enter in yugoslavia. Still crash them, but still not invade.

6) after a while, yugoslavia will get a coup, call it a day and beg UK for peace. The german units there will be SR to Berlin, by so making their army weaker.

7) the same day yugoslavia surrender, hit Munich. By doing so, you will simply make the whole german army moving to south , it mean you created the strategic surprise and simply get a huge unbalanced situation, while german army is moving, you will be able to attack anywhere you want : BENELUX, Siegrfried line, or also possible go to Vienna and then Hungria, or also threaten to move North with high speed and take Berlin. You will simply have your fate in your own hands, and made your oppnment beg for mercy.

 

[CommanderC]

Have you been using your Mediterranean Fleet for Shore Bombardment?

They can support your defense of a province, too... not just support attacks. It gives your opponent a combat efficiency penalty, just like rough terrain does.

blue emu - No I haven't; only been using it for supporting ground attacks. I had no idea you could do that :rofl:

I could have used that very early on when I rushed into Belgium at the outbreak of hostilities and got whacked pretty hard in Rotterdam. Several other times too, including the Med as suggested.

Very helpfull hint blue emu - Thanks

 

[unmerged(57179)]

Maginot line extension

If i play France i always extend to the channel if only for the look of it.
It does help your defence as your always outnumbered by jerry,every little helps.
I've visited schoenenbourg fort and all i can say is,its flippin impressive.Me and a friend walked from the entrance to the gun battery and it took a good hour,well worth a visit if you can.

 

[CommanderC]

rman114 - You know how you maneuver your forces to set up for an offensive/encirclement? You are essentially trying to beat the AI to the punch, and you look at your units all important Org and it’s low as always…. So you wait two or three days for it to build back up. You look at it and decide that you could probably start the offensive now but you want a few of your key units to be at just a little bit higher Org before you commit. Yeah…. Then just before you are ready, the AI launches it’s own offensive and throws you off base until you can recover.

Well, just before I attack the AI hits me in Ghent, and attacks my armor units in Mons. So I decide what the heck, I was planning on fighting anyway, so I launch into my 1st echelon attacks on Namur scoring a quick overwhelming victory. The attack on my units in Ghent was so vicious that one of my Armees was forced to retreat making it non-available for the Battle Plan to encircle Brussels. Fortunately, my other units in Ghent and my armor in Mons hold on but they suffer the lowering of Org from the combat. So my armor has to just sit for awhile and build back up – it’s out of the picture for awhile along with a large percentage of my troops in Ghent. This sequence of events causes a pretty even battle to take place with my units coming up from Namur to take Antwerp.

Somewhere in the middle of all this his units start attacking out of Brussels again so I commit my recovering armor and find out at least one of his remaining armor divisions is in Brussels. Say it isn’t so – there is Axis armor in the province I plan to encircle. In this screenie you see a few things; my air going after those units in Brussels, and enemy units in Antwerp and Arlon in retreat.


Problem is I win the battle in Brussels and I think I forced some of his units in Brussels to retreat, including that armor division; of course I didn’t see this until later after the encirclement was complete as the armor had moved out. The Battle Plan does work though and I do get 9 divisions destroyed in the encirclement with my second echelon troops, just not that one armor division, that prize got out sometime in the battle.


What a fight! This game is outrageous fun. I seem to be holding my own against the AI. This particular fight was a bit harder than the rest for two reasons; I waited one day too long before I attacked – and the AI beat me to it, and in this Battle Plan I didn’t have the channel as a barrier on side of the enemy which complicated matters greatly. I now have only 66 divisions, but that small number doesn't seem to hold me back with the encirclemants I am doing. My first armor unit, post hostilities, rolls off the line in less than a month. I've made it to Aug 16, 1940. I'm a bit worried about the Italians.

 

[CommanderC]

So rman114 - How is your game going? Last I heard you were having these massive amounts of units building up and facing eachother in just a few provinces. Have you been able to eliminate any enemy units? Tried any encirclements?