Help with early game moves (Ireland)

[rabotrabbot]

First off, this game is too addicting. So using a tutorial I found here I can usually take over Ireland by like 1080/90 starting in 1066 but I always end up feeling like I am not maximizing my game and I have a few questions. I've scoured the internet and I get a lot of different opinions but I wanted to ask them all in one place with current knowledge

1. I start out as the king of Mumu. Once I've take over Ireland should I move my capital to Dublin? What duchies should I keep? If I keep Meath, should I stay with Mumu or switch to Ulster which has more provinces and holdings?
   
   
2. What should my first law changes be? I usually up the demesne limit first and then change the city taxes to high. I always change to Primo the first chance I get too. What level crown authority should I be aiming for?
   
   
3. I've set my invite to court setting to anyone in diplo range. What I get from that is that I usually marry my king and heir to women with great stats and am able to get great councillors. Is this a bad move? The only downside I see is that when I marry my king and heir they usually take quit a prestige hit but I usually climb out of that hole with my king really quickly.
   
   
4. What should I be building right away? I've rad to invest in economic upgrades first but does that just mean anything that offers a tax bonus like castle walls, guild halls, city walls, etc? If I get everything economic building up to level II should I wait for a bit and focus on holdings? What should I build? Take the demesne limit hit and built castles or focus on towns and create a new mayor with them? Is there strategy as to what to build in your capital vs your capital duchy vs whatever other lands you have?
   
   
5. Should I be assigning guardians to all my children and children's children? I get why you should do it with your heirs her and maybe a backup but does it matter beyond that if I'm just going to be marrying them off?
   
   
6. Should I land my heir after a bit to ease my demesne limit? This takes him out of my control somewhat. Should I land relatives If I have the chance to?
   
   
7. The way I've been expanding out of Ireland is that I usually invite two claimants to the Welsh kingdoms over fabricate claims in one of each of the two kingdoms, land them (sometimes I marry them to my daughters/granddaughters) then fight a war to claim the rest of Wales for them. I've done this for Scotland and England too before. Is this a bad strategy?
   
   
8. I like fabricating a claim on Man and making a merchant republic vassal there. Bad strategy? It does bring in the money
   
   
9. Sometimes I'll make it far enough that I'm king of Wales,Scotland, Ireland (a couple times England too). Should I build up duchies when that happens? I haven't and I end up with constant revolts that I find pretty easy to put down but they are time consuming. should I let my dukes control everything in their duchy or only let them have one county? If they revolt and I revoke their titles, who should I put in their place?
   
   
10. Should I start building my retinues right away? What mix of soldiers should fill it with?
    
    
11. I'm completely lost when it comes to tech points. No idea what to invest in but I guess I should wait until I am set on my capital? Then what should I put points in to and what is the best way to up the gaining of tech points?
    

A lot fo questions, I know. Feel free to tell me to fuck off and just scour the web some more for answers. I just wanted to get all my questions answered in one place with up to date info. Great game!

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

1. I am not too familiar with Ireland as I find it a tad boring start location. It's good for beginners, that's for sure. Anyways pick two duchies and just count how many holdings they have (additional building slots.) Pick the two duchies with the most.

2. I haven't played without Conclave in quite a while. It'd be best to let someone else chime in for this. In general though prioritize a desmense limit that you're comfortable with, and then be sure to reach that limit. The vassal limit is only relevant when you actually get big enough to have that many vassals

3. You can do that. What I tend to do is marry my heir to princesses of people I plan to conquer. When their father or mother dies as a landowner they will generate inheritable claims to all their children. Meaning your wife. Any kids between the two of you will then have a weak inheritable claim on the title.You can nab the entire Holy Roman Empire if you're strong enough. keyword on If, so do keep your ambitions in check and don't go marrying the HRE princess right off the bat.

Vice Versa, don't go marrying off your daughters to foreign kings. Marry it to their younger brother by all means, but not their title holder. That way it minimizes the chance they'll have a claim on your title in the future.

4. I'd go economic buildings. You're in Ireland. You do not really have any external military threats. Focus on building your economy. There are two options. You can either build tall or build wide. I personally prefer wide, so what I would do is build cities in all my holding slots. This is additionally beneficial with coastal counties (which Ireland is composed of) because at the coast cities get an additional economic building. The port. In other cases you may want to build all castles and hold them personally. The more in your capital, the better. Capital and capital duchy get manpower modifiers and you can raise substantial troops like this.

5. It helps a lot, but I'm too used to Conclave to comment further.

6. This is personal preference. Some people like their heirs under their complete control, and no other kin holding land. I prefer to only ever hand out titles to kinsmen, and I'll give land to my heir too if I intend to keep that as future desmense. Of course, I'll make sure he's married first. The benefits to landing kin is your dynasty has a collective dynasty prestige that everyone contributes to. The more people with titles, the more prestige contribution.

7. It's decent. A more satisfying strategy, albeit slower, is the do #3. Marriage game. The additional benefit with kinsmen is that so long as the title you are fighting for is lower tier than your own, any kin claimant automatically becomes your vassal after the win. You don't need to land him.

8. Very good strategy. You just need to make sure that when you become emperor that Mann is in the same kingdom as your capital. Otherwise the future king of scotland vassal may ruin everything by destroying the MR or hating your for not giving him his de jure vassal.

9. Kinnnnnnnnnnnnn. I always put kin, lol. But that's just me. Anyways my vassal management plan used to be make one or two big vassals. Enough to comprise 30-40% of your realm. Marry your daughters and sons off to their younger, non inheriting siblings. Again, watch out for future claimants. Now you have a non aggression pact with your one or two strongest vassals. No matter how much everyone else hates you they'll never get strong enough to fire a faction demand against you.

10. Just go with the Irish cultural retinue. They're pretty reliable.

11. I generally prioritize Military (Cavalry, Logistics,) Economic (Construction, Castle tech,) Cultural (Majesty, and Tolerance.) You'll want Heavy Infantry rather than cavalry as Irish to give the most benefit to your cultural retinues. And really for cultural anything works. I just prefer Majesty for faster Prestige/Piety gain.

I would also recommend considering the DLCs. There's a grand 7th birthday sale going on for CK2 at the Paradox website. Everything is dirt cheap until the 18th.

If you have any other questions, feel free to post them. I'm good with anything feudal or Iqta. Not too experienced with the other government types however.

 

[rabotrabbot]

Wow, this is all great info. Thanks so much! A few other questions that I've thought about

1. Should I be managing the marriages of everyone, distant kin and various courtiers alike? Sure, I can see that my steward desires to be married but does it really do anything for me or him if I find some nice bride?

2. Any thoughts on the Ways of Life focuses? I've done the seduction one, the war one, and recently the business one. I like how the business focus gets me money

3. I've read that one way people press claims is to invite a claimant to their court, give them a barony, and then press their claim to get them as their vassal. How do you go about retract their barony title to get your castle back without getting some bad opinions form your other vassals though?

4. Combat seems pretty straightforward but the commander thing confuses me. Should I just find the best martial people in my court and stick them in those slots? Does it matter if they were invited by me and from a different culture?

5. Are the various traits your character picks up just luck of the draw sometimes? I'll be ruling just fine and then, bam, my guy becomes stressed, craven, or ill.

6. You say you like big vassals? How many counties do you prefer them to have in their respective duchies?

7. Any other tips you can give to someone just starting out?

 

[Vetgirig]

1. Yes. I find marrying away those I have no need for in my court anymore is a cheap way to get rid of them. Matriliniar marriages get rids of males too. Anyone with genetic traits can be good to marry off to get children and more with that good trait to my court. Also marry a kin to someone who gives claims to the children so can go to war for it later.

2. All are good. For example hunting gives extra life and a dog that can keep an old ruler alive for longer.

3. Giving a barony makes the realm messy. Better to give away a newly conquered province.

4. You want to invite the best commanders you can find. Siege is especially good imho and trickster you should avoid. Educate all male kins as military men so you got plenty of commanders.

5. Traits ain't random and depending on focuses and other traits etc. Check wiki.

6. One. They are gonna take the others provinces in time but better them being busy with that then scheming against me.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

1. If he's not kin or some kind of claimant you are plotting to press claims on, you don't need to bother with marrying them off. For distant kin it will still be in your interest to try and marry them off to the daughters of landowners. Maybe as king your distant cousin can still marry the daughter of a count, which will allow you to get a claim on that in the future. Or you can find a claimant with an inheritable claim whom you can invite and then matrilineally marry to your kinswomen.

2. Business focus is great for small realms since the trade route event has a very low floor. Meaning you get tons of money for a small realm. After getting that event I tend to stick to Carousing for the lifestyle trait, and then either theology or rulership. Socializer/Hedonist are reliable to acquire lifestyle traits that aren't too bad to get. I prefer rulership for governing, though it'll mean you'll spend gold to please vassals occassionally. Theology I usually pick if I want my character to live a bit longer, as well as be liked more.

In general I place higher emphasis on diplomacy. This is not necessary in smaller realms, but is beneficial in empire or larger sized blobs.

3. "Best" way to do it is to incite your vassal to rebel against you, thereby giving you a reason to revoke. This is not very likely given they love you after you pressed their claim for them. Really though if they're not too powerful just revoke anyways. The opinion penalty is just a 10 year penalty (for your other vassals.) Be sure that opinion modifier has expired before you do it again, because you can stack this modifier. Worse, it resets the timer of the old revoke.

4. The combat mechanics of CK2 are obscure and archaic. Suffice to say so long as you have more men and keep an eye out for terrain modifiers, a larger army will beat a smaller army. That's not always the case though, such as against nomads like the Mongols, or pagans in their homelands.

5. Yeah. Way of Life focuses help guide your character towards one set of traits, but they're not foolproof.

6. You don't necessarily have to worry about that with just Ireland. This is around empire tier size. So when you're emperor of Britain I might keep Britain as a set of duchies and then the King of Wales and a King of Scotland as my two powerful vassals. Then I'll just marry two of my children to their brothers every other generation. With Wales and Scotland never factioning against you dukes in England can never muster the faction power to demand anything from you. No matter how much they hate you.

Keep in mind you'll want to keep this to a maximum of three powerful vassals comprising 40% of your realm. Those kids of yours are a precious resource in the marriage game. Balance that with realm stability.

7. I'd say stick to the default 1066 start for now. Even if you buy the earlier timeline DLCs the 1066 start is the best balanced of the three early starts. Once you are feeling adventurous the Duke of Apulia down in Sicily provides much more exciting gameplay for a beginner than Ireland will. Switch to either him or any of the kings in Spain for a lenient start near religious enemies.

As mentioned before the marriage game is the quickest way to expand as a Catholic, despite how slow it is. It's much more reliable to eat the entire title than to wait on RNG just to fabricate one county or duchy at a time.

 

[Snake_Squeezins]

My priority law changes are to get Title Revocation (to revoke from people who rebel), then Religious Title Revocation (to immediately revoke from heretics), then eventually to centralize (add demesne size) a bit. Later it's great to add Burgher Tax Rate, especially if you set up a Merchant Republic - you make a lot of money from cities/burghers. (And yes, Duchy of Mann is an ideal place to set up a Merchant Republic - do that ASAP.) Don't worry about Free Investiture, it's nice but you can get a lot of benefits by maintaining good relations with the Pope.

For WAY OF LIFE focus, if you go Benedictine (which I highly recommend, but which is only available if you have MONKS AND MYSTICS), then an early request will probably be to take Theology focus. It's a great focus because you can immediately go on a Pilgrimage to acquire some good stats, because over time you will get wonderful traits/virtues, and because you get a Health bonus. If you are young when you can change focus, Business is a good choice because of the Trade Route you can set up, it's one of my favorite bonuses. Finally, Hunting is great if you already have the Diligent trait (which is easy if you stay Theology/Benedictine for a while), because you will eventually get a dog that adds additional health. When I'm old I switch back to Theology for the health and a chance at maintaining virtues (which if you have HOLY FURY will give you a good chance of becoming a Saint).

For education, it's best to educate your own kids and grandkids. If you have the DLC that lets you appoint a Court Tutor, that's a wonderful feature - just appoint someone with your culture and great stats, and you don't really need to micromanage education as much. Also when you start a game you can set up notifications for all court members who need their educational focuses set, which I recommend, since it means you never have to worry about anyone in court secretly getting educated from a halfwit or with a bad focus (and because you can switch non-culture kids to heritage which will almost certainly ensure that they switch to your culture).

Invite the best commanders you can find from wherever they are. Culture doesn't matter. Try to find at least one commander with the Siege Leader trait, it's the best way to speed up sieges.

 

[Serenity84]

One thing you have to keep in mind that you're just a petty king. That's a localized name for a duke

Laws: Increasing the demense is limit is certainly a good move. Title revocation should also be one of the earlier laws

Generally for Ireland, I consider the tutorial over when you've created the kingdom of Ireland. It's a good place to learn the very basics of the game in peace, but beyond that are far more interesting places.

Take the demesne limit hit and built castles or focus on towns and create a new mayor with them? Is there strategy as to what to build in your capital vs your capital duchy vs whatever other lands you have?

Don't build new holdings at that stage. Way too expensive. Upgrade the existing ones. Starting with what you own yourself in your capital county. Then the capital duchy. The capital count is what gets the most bonuses. Partly from the actions of your councilors, partly static bonuses like increases levies

Should I land my heir after a bit to ease my demesne limit? This takes him out of my control somewhat. Should I land relatives If I have the chance to?

Never land your heir. It's ahistorical and I don't like it, but they mess up far too easily.

Landing relatives is a matter of preference. Some people like to give everything to dynasty members. Personally I prefer a mix. Landing some kinsman (not close relatives who have claims on your stuff) is good so you have some dynastic backups in case something goes horribly wrong. But I also like to bring in qualified new blood. Especially when I play minority religions where you can't just marry people around you.

I'm completely lost when it comes to tech points. No idea what to invest in but I guess I should wait until I am set on my capital?

Legalism to get better succession laws if you can't get primo yet.

Military organization for better moral, higher supply limit and more retinue cap. Level 4 also lets you ignore the pagan homeland attrition penalty. Siege equipment for faster sieges. Shipbuilding if you need ships for transport or raiding.

Infrastructure stuff to unlock new buildings if you already built the previous levels

Majesty for the lower short reign penalty. Late game you also need level 5 for imperial adminstration

Any thoughts on the Ways of Life focuses? I've done the seduction one, the war one, and recently the business one. I like how the business focus gets me money

They all have their uses. Business is great for money. Rulership makes you stressed very fast. War lets you level up your education trait. But hunting is also very nice later on life for the extra health. You can also get events to get rid of stressed or depressed. Theology is good too for getting rid of negative traits.
Once a life do scholarship for the observatory chain (you need to build it in the intrigue menu)

I've read that one way people press claims is to invite a claimant to their court, give them a barony, and then press their claim to get them as their vassal. How do you go about retract their barony title to get your castle back without getting some bad opinions form your other vassals though?

This is precisely why it isn't so easily done. When I play a rich realm (very large or maybe I have silk road trade posts) I sometimes build new baronies. But otherwise keep in mind that revoking is only -15 for 10 years. When you've reigned for a while and aren't a tyrannical asshole you can suck that up now and then

. Are the various traits your character picks up just luck of the draw sometimes? I'll be ruling just fine and then, bam, my guy becomes stressed, craven, or ill.

Part of them are random, but stressed depends on what you do. People with too many jobs can become stressed for example. Some event chains or focuses result in stress as a penalty