Help... with Byzantium 1.24

[Rocketskates]

Asking help for 1.24 version for beating the Otto Man. Ive restarted more than i cared to count before i could snatch Hungary as an ally. Austria, Mamluks and Poland is out of the question, all too many relations and Poland rivaled Hungary. Negroponte/Naxos tactics outdated, Recover Greece no longer available from the start. Less ships.

Ottomans picked Conquer Serbia mission, so "naturally" they attacked Albania guaranteed by Venice. That smells like an opportunity or a trap. Im unsure. Difficulty is normal, i dont dare VH or H for this.

Situation:
Albania under siege, 4k troops no leader, 0%. Dalmatia under siege, siege leader, 7k troops, -14%, under blockade. 15k Ottoman troops trapped in Negroponte with leader. Almost the entire Ottoman navy is on the Adriatic, while Venice is at port after a beating. Theres still a stack somewhere of the turks, i cant see it, think its in Europe.

Ottoman is allied with Crimea, Venice is allied with Savoy (16k troops) trade league with Mantua, Siena, Knights. I can get Trebizond and Imereti as of now. Venice has its army inact, hiding at their capital.
Im at forcelimit (11k), 7cogs 9 galleys, 1 heavy almost ready.

Hungary is willing to join for land against Venice. I have a claim on Negroponte.
Ive considered:

• attack Venice
• attack Ottoman
• no CB Albania and aim for Negroponte Naxos Dalmatia

But i think Venice will peace out of Otto war, throwing me under the bus with the Ottos. If i attack Ottos, im alone and if the albanian capital falls Venice again will peace out. I can ship my troops to Serbia but money and time is tight. Can i even lift the siege if i declare on Ottos?

Ive made research on the new Byz but either the suggestions are outdated or suggest just ally small nations, get attacked and hope for battles to go lucky while its busy in Eastern Anatolia/Rhodos. Im a bit clueless generally about the whole thing, nothing looks good even if i get lucky starting positions. Any help or ideas are appreciated, im not complaining, since this should be hard.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

If you aren't restarting you aren't trying

 

[Stanleykubrick]

I tried Byzantium this version after a very long time (~2 years?).

If you are interested this is how I made it:

I was very lucky and didn't need to reload not even once! Ottomans started with the Rhodes mission, DOW Venice and their trade league, a war they won in the end by annexing the Knights. I didn't consider to attack neither Venice or Ottos. I just didn't feel strong enough to beat either of them. Instead, I took advantage of the fact that their long distraction made them to not warn me, fabricated on Candar and annexed this beylik. In the mean time I took Wallachia and Trebizond as allies and started working on getting Poland-Lithuania as allies, which I did (Hungary was my rival !). A few years later, next move was to no-CB Serbia as the Ottos attacked the other Beyliks. The major price here was Kosovo and its gold mine. After that I had a pretty strong base, very good income because of the gold mine + Constantinople, even got Venice as an ally, and DOW at the right time bringing Venice, Poland and Wallachia in the game. Won the first war and after that the campaign was the typical Byzantium blobbing campaign. (It was also interesting that after my 2nd win on the Ottomans, they got reduced to something like 5 provinces despite having Crimea as a vassal. In this version, they have strong neighbours in the east that can jump on to them if they get weak : Mammluks, Aq Quounlu, Georgia, Circassia and Genoa attacked them and got pieces).

For your game:

In your case you already have a strong ally that will protect you (Hungary), work on getting another one to feel even safier. I wouldn't declare on the Ottos yet, if Hungary won't join you can't beat them - also don't underestimate Crimeas forces at this early stage, they will come to defend them if you declare so that's an extra 9k horde troops to deal with. They will also have combat bonuses in the region you will fight for (Constantinople, Edirne, Macedonia and other parts of the Balkans are plains).

Best options I think for is to leave Venice and Ottomans distracted with each other and grab something else: perhaps Serbia before Ottomans can. You can also feed Bosnia to Hungary or something to gain favors with them. Just make sure you get Kosovo. Take a look at Candar as well.

If you don't like that then I think the 2nd best would be attack Venice and call in Hungary. Although from what I read it will not be an easy war, they will have naval superiority and in terms of land forces they have some decent allies that can more or less match your land forces. Still beatable though.


Don't give up if you fail. It's part of the Byzantine fun : you have to be alert and opportunistic in the begging and of course lucky to succeed. Have fun!

 

[Rocketskates]

Candar allied Karaman this time instead of Ramazan. Ive tried another run previously and i got Trebizond, Theodoro and Candar, so 4 more provinces but Ottoman broke my alliance with Albania, still had Wallachia Ragusa and a beaten Aragon and it still delcared on me.

I will have naval supremacy since his fleet was beaten up but not too bad, it all depends how fast it peaces out from the other war. I cant grab Serbia as its allied to Bosnia and i have no favours and gaining 1 only every 3 years. Hungary also does not want bosnian land, it wants Dalmacia.

I feel like the Ottos are now much more into Byzantine, if they dont pick 1 of the their 2 missions on me then they surely attack me as 2nd.

I guess the perfect scenario is when i can get Hungary (doesnt fall under PU), Poland doesnt rival Hungary but Ottomans, Mamluks rivaling Ottos, Venice doesnt rival me or Hungary but do so with Ottos. I get no bufoon ruler, and the Ottos pick Safeguard Eastern Anatolia, then i can try and a catch Edirne fast (with a good siege general) while they are busy fighting far away. Damn thats alot of variables and it can still go to shit.

Bit frustrating but oh well, my hobby is beating the Ottos as past time no matter what nation i play with.

 

[makaramus]

this guide is fresh

 

[Rocketskates]

Duno what game hes playing but Albania almost never gets an alliance with Hungary and if it does then either you or a small turkic beylik is on the menu. Ill keep trying and look for opportunity

 

[Shadow_PL]

I tried multiple times and i know one quite ok opening 1.24 war strat:

Most games Ottos start with war against you (bad luck, reload or die trying to win) or Albania (this is we are waiting for).

You need to improve realtions with Albania but dont take alliance yet. Albania war= Ottos vs Albania, Venice, Korfu, Naxos, and probably some Italian minor. This is where your Byz power is needed. Click on confirm alliance asap(if you are allied before this war Ottos might want even more to start against your amazing Empire first as Albania side is stronger with you and Athens backing them up).

So war started - you have Albania ally and they will surely call for arms within days. Next steps is standard Byz tactis, let them go on Korfu, Naxos, or Negroponte and go with your fleet (standard size) to block them on the island. If ottos fleet comes you will have Venice help anyway so you have no chance to lose navy war (all minors should help as well). If you are able to lock at least one ~16 army you should then win the war with help of you allies. If no, try again maybe locking more their troops
Oh and one important thing. I know that you are not the war leader but AI will definitely always pick some lands for you as you have claims on half of south balcans. They usually give around 3 provinces to you. Sometimes even more.

Sometimes Venice is at the very beggining in war with Serbia and Bosnia. Then hopefully Ottos will attack a bit later, not just in same moment as Venice.

Definitely you are right, Ottos will attack you if not 1st, then probably 2nd that is why you need to solve the first most important war asap on your terms.

After the first war you have plenty of time to look for additional big allies due to truce. So you should do fine later on.

Good luck!

 

[Rocketskates]

Thats a very good point, ive done that before with others, i had bad experiences with AI rewarding me with anything but i didnt have cores in those wars, ill keep an eye out for that chance.

 

[macd21]

Thats a very good point, ive done that before with others, i had bad experiences with AI rewarding me with anything but i didnt have cores in those wars, ill keep an eye out for that chance.

Hint: if someone is calling you into a war, before clicking accept you should go to the diplo screen and make sure you have a couple of enemy provinces selected as vital interests. If you have a core or claim there, I think they’re selected by default.

Once you join the war you won’t be able to select them if an ally has already done so. And if you don’t have any selected, the War leader won’t give you any.

 

[Shadow_PL]

Yup, AI is working in a way that it gives claimed cores back to owners if they participated in war. Especially defensive wars where the target does not exist.

Good thing is that you dont need to occupy the province AI will automatically give the province under your occupation if you have claims on it and they don't.

One more tip. Make your king a general, i once recieved 5 pips in shock (!!) and he is bad anyway so if he dies this is a not a big deal

 

[Rocketskates]

Hint: if someone is calling you into a war, before clicking accept you should go to the diplo screen and make sure you have a couple of enemy provinces selected as vital interests. If you have a core or claim there, I think they’re selected by default.

Once you join the war you won’t be able to select them if an ally has already done so. And if you don’t have any selected, the War leader won’t give you any.

thanks, yea i know, just for example ethiopa wasnt keen on giving me the suez canal when i saved it with 99% participation or France giving me some colonial territories but oh well, eventhough i did have those marked with vital interest for long, but this entirely different

 

[Dominion]

this guide is fresh

"I've restarted many, many times"

- Doesn't know how attitude works
- Doesn't use Estates properly
- Picks diprep mission for annexation (not possible for 10 years)
- Many restarts but no restart after a horrible, horrible general?
- Doesn't ally Albania after Ottos DoW despite Hungary and Venice being in (Hungary completely sufficed on prior patches)
- Rents condottieri to Venice instead (wat? Seriously, WAT?)

And that's just the first 2 minutes.

I can see why he had to restart so often.

EDIT: He plays the war on speed 5 and gets stackwiped because popups are blocking the view.
Half the stuff he does are never to be touched or done in any game no matter your nation.

And I don't think I'll get over the condottieri idea. That one hurt the most. Just... wat

 

[makaramus]

"I've restarted many, many times"

- Doesn't know how attitude works
- Doesn't use Estates properly
- Picks diprep mission for annexation (not possible for 10 years)
- Many restarts but no restart after a horrible, horrible general?
- Doesn't ally Albania after Ottos DoW despite Hungary and Venice being in (Hungary completely sufficed on prior patches)
- Rents condottieri to Venice instead (wat? Seriously, WAT?)

And that's just the first 2 minutes.

I can see why he had to restart so often.

EDIT: He plays the war on speed 5 and gets stackwiped because popups are blocking the view.
Half the stuff he does are never to be touched or done in any game no matter your nation.

And I don't think I'll get over the condottieri idea. That one hurt the most. Just... wat

AAAAAND despite all of this results are great? he restarted because ottoman was attacking venice or him... thats restart reason. he gave conditerri to albenia because he knew albenia gonna give his cores back to him!
He is not playing for long campaign. he created a starting guide .
his general meaningless since he is planning to use godlike albenia general.

I am not sure if you noticed but he took most of his cores(one of the center of trade) AND DIDNT TRIGGER A TRUCE! this means he can still declare war and take even MORE land from ottoman soon as he desire!

 

[SlamDunc1990]

I have had some success with the following method in 1.24 after a long time away from the game:


Restart until Hungary rivals Ottomans, immediately improve relations w/ Hungary. Hire a Dip Rep advisor, ally Hungary ASAP. Ally Albania (for Skanderberg). If you are extra lucky Albania may also ally Hungary. Build up your navy with Galleys. Park your army in Albania w/ Skanderberg. Get another alliance also (e.g. Serbia, Wallachia etc).

What happens next can depend on which mission Ottomans takes first and which alliances they have. If they take the "Vassalize Albania" mission and attack them you have a good chance of beating them if Albania have allied Hungary (and if the AI doesn't mess it up).

You can also wait until Hungary's truce with them expires then declare war, promising Hungary land and Albania land will usually draw them in. Obviously it is advisable to wait until they are tied up fighting somewhere else and are weakened, in the east against QQ for example.

During the first war if you beat them at sea and capture Edirne then you can block the strait and take Greece. At this point you should have the war score to at least get your cores back and you can go further if you can afford to continue the war and Ottomans are weakened enough. In my current run the war had been going on a long time by this point (useless Hungarian and Albanian AI!) so I peaced out for my cores, plus a few provinces, Albanias core to them and Vidin to Hungary, war reparations and some gold.

Note: If Ottos are allied with Crimea this may make it harder (they can bypass the strait via the Black Sea coast) but I was lucky that they broke their alliance with them when fighting Candar who were also allied to Crimea.

In the second war basically just keep naval superiority and either bring in stronger allies or wait until they are weakened again. I think I was pre-emptive with my second war and only managed to get three more provinces after a long protracted struggle. Ensure you keep control of that strait, dock in Constantinople, allow one of their armies to cross then block the strait to prevent reinforcements.

After fighting the Ottos twice the Mameluks are now willing so sign an alliance with me so I anticipate the next war being easier.

 

[Dominion]

AAAAAND despite all of this results are great?

No. They are not. Not even close. That's the bare minimum you're able to show. One step below that is the "I died" screen.

Ally Albania (for Skanderberg).

Never ally Albania. Wait until Ottos DoW them, then ally them.

That way you get called in a defensive war, you have more troops than you'd have in a normal one because you entered later, you can separate peace for anything that isn't your core (if not possible, get cores) and then get some more cores from Albania's peace as well since Hungary doesn't get anything in a def war and Albania has no interest in anything other than its core and maybe one more province.

That way you start with 2-4 provinces more than what the video showed. Afterwards you either have risked a bit and got the land connection to Serbia for it (who you fully annex+some Bosnia stuff) or DoW Albania immediately. Which is another thing he can not do.
He gets 7 measly provinces, your standard opening can give you ~15.

And done. That's it. You+Hungary are already stronger than Ottos.

 

[bly08]

That youtube "guide" belongs on reddit, not here.

 

[SlamDunc1990]

No. They are not. Not even close. That's the bare minimum you're able to show. One step below that is the "I died" screen.



Never ally Albania. Wait until Ottos DoW them, then ally them.

That way you get called in a defensive war, you have more troops than you'd have in a normal one because you entered later, you can separate peace for anything that isn't your core (if not possible, get cores) and then get some more cores from Albania's peace as well since Hungary doesn't get anything in a def war and Albania has no interest in anything other than its core and maybe one more province.

That way you start with 2-4 provinces more than what the video showed. Afterwards you either have risked a bit and got the land connection to Serbia for it (who you fully annex+some Bosnia stuff) or DoW Albania immediately. Which is another thing he can not do.
He gets 7 measly provinces, your standard opening can give you ~15.

And done. That's it. You+Hungary are already stronger than Ottos.

Yes I'd forgotten about the whole ally Albania after DoW strat since I'd last played. I wasn't saying the way I did it was optimal just that it worked. I suppose the disadvantage of that method is you have to wait for Ottos to attack Albania.. not sure how long that usually takes if they select a different mission at start?

 

[Dominion]

Yes I'd forgotten about the whole ally Albania after DoW strat since I'd last played. I wasn't saying the way I did it was optimal just that it worked. I suppose the disadvantage of that method is you have to wait for Ottos to attack Albania.. not sure how long that usually takes if they select a different mission at start?

It's just a backup plan. Your original plan used to be to ally Hungary, Dow with promise of land, give nothing, win.

Or cheese methods (island trap, exile, HRE), but I don't like those unless they make sense.

On the current patch Hungary has too many dip rel oftentimes. Dunno what I would do right now if Albania wouldn't get attacked.

Probably ally Poland or Austria. Or nocb Circassia/Theodoro as soon as Ottos DoW Candar or sth. Maybe even DoW Ottos solo if they attack Mamluks.

But I'm sure that I would never lend condottieri to Venice. Who even gave him that idea?

 

[makaramus]

That youtube "guide" belongs on reddit, not here.

It's just a backup plan. Your original plan used to be to ally Hungary, Dow with promise of land, give nothing, win.

Or cheese methods (island trap, exile, HRE), but I don't like those unless they make sense.

On the current patch Hungary has too many dip rel oftentimes. Dunno what I would do right now if Albania wouldn't get attacked.

Probably ally Poland or Austria. Or nocb Circassia/Theodoro as soon as Ottos DoW Candar or sth. Maybe even DoW Ottos solo if they attack Mamluks.

But I'm sure that I would never lend condottieri to Venice. Who even gave him that idea?

he wanted to do not have truce with ottoman so he can take even more land after he get his cores back?

 

[Dominion]

he wanted to do not have truce with ottoman so he can take even more land after he get his cores back?

He did not DoW which means he would get less so he can DoW later and get the same, but later?
... wat

Besides, he didn't do anything for 12 years, then attacked the Knights. There was nothing strategic to playing horrible. There never is.

Did you even watch the video?