Help with beating China as Japan

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batui9

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I've been attempting to play a complete game as Japan where I make the Co-eastern sphere, but I keep getting bogged down in my war with China not being able to make progress. I've seen guides where people have managed to have full 40w divisons before the war, but the best I can manage is two full army groups of 20w divisons, and even with doing naval invasions I just cant seem to actually make progress against China. Anyhelp would be appreciated.
 

desphorin

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You never need a full army of 40w, not even a Germany doing Barb.

For Japan against China, try 14-4 + Light tanks (1936) recon. The Chinese divisions cant pierce this division because they dont research newer guns until later. I only made 4 of these (and 2 full armies of 10-0) and beat the Chinese faction in a year at historical declaration date. If you think this is too exploity, an ordinary 14-4 with adequate air support should still do the job.

Let them bash their heads to you first. When they are low at org and strength, start encircling and destroying them. Naval invasions for me is just a distraction to pull some troops away from the main front line
 

batui9

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You never need a full army of 40w, not even a Germany doing Barb.

For Japan against China, try 14-4 + Light tanks (1936) recon. The Chinese divisions cant pierce this division because they dont research newer guns until later. I only made 4 of these (and 2 full armies of 10-0) and beat the Chinese faction in a year at historical declaration date. If you think this is too exploity, an ordinary 14-4 with adequate air support should still do the job.

Let them bash their heads to you first. When they are low at org and strength, start encircling and destroying them. Naval invasions for me is just a distraction to pull some troops away from the main front line
When you say 14-4 and light tanks could you elaborate more on that template. I understand that 10-0 is just 10 infantry but is 14-4 14 infantry and 4 art? and if so how do you manage to get enough army xp to make that template?
 

orochi2k

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Naval invasion, do lots of naval invasion.
And send agents to just sit in China, they have passive to improve your naval invasion and reduce enemy defense.
 

desphorin

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When you say 14-4 and light tanks could you elaborate more on that template. I understand that 10-0 is just 10 infantry but is 14-4 14 infantry and 4 art? and if so how do you manage to get enough army xp to make that template?
Yes, 14-4s are like what you said. You will get the required xp when you let the Chinese divisions attacking you mindlessly first. You dont really need those elite divisions right from the start.

But what I probably will do is send volunteers to Nat Spain, you can easily build up 4 14-4s just by gradually improving those Nat Spain volunteers while they are fighting. Send Rep Spain a few thousand guns so they last even longer is also a good trick.
 

squid_hills

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Send volunteers to Nationalist Spain. Maybe send an attache as well. That will net you 20% of Franco's weekly army xp, plus whatever your volunteers manage to accumulate. That should give you enough xp to adjust your templates. Also, you may want to consider not doing the Marco Polo Bridge focus. That focus lets you go to war with China, but it inflicts a huge malus on your army that you have to buy off in stages. Buying the malus off makes the USA more powerful, but leaving it there makes your army fight at around 50% strength (which is suicidal). In the latest versions, you can't declare war on China directly without WT being around 75%, but there is an alternative: wait for China to provoke war.

Communist China has a national focus that lets them sabotage Japanese infrastructure and factories in Korea. When they do that, Japan gets an event that lets them declare war on both Communist China and the Republic of China. Declaring war with this event does not inflict the Marco Polo Bridge maluses on your army, but it is very likely China will still be suffering under its own army malus, which makes them fight at around 50% strength.

This means your army will be at 100% effectiveness, while China is at 50% effectiveness, essentially making your army twice as powerful than their army without you having to do anything. You won't need 14/4 anything to push them then. Plain old 7/2 will do.

Also: consider using light tank divisions. China doesn't put anti-tank guns into their divisions until very, very late in the game (if they somehow survive that long). Light tanks are resource-cheap and can shred infantry very well. Give them support engineers and they won't be penalized by bad terrain as much. As Japan, you will find that light tanks will go farther for you than for most any other nation (everybody in Europe has AT support by 1939, most people in Asia don't have it till 1944).

If you want to go pro-gamer, you can declare an early war on the Dutch East Indies right out of the gate. Join the Axis, justify on DEI, get docking rights in Italy and Nationalist Spain, move your fleet to Germany (search for "Sunrise Invasion" on youtube for a how-to video about this... there's a trick to moving the fleet you'll need to see), put a stack of infantry in Germany and plan a naval invasion into the Netherlands (the middle port; AI rarely guards that in the early game). When the justification is ready, invade the Netherlands and capitulate them (don't call Germany in). Then puppet the DEI for manpower (or annex them for resources) annex Curacao for oil (and a staging ground for an invasion of the USA) Guyana for aluminum, and then do whatever you want with the Netherlands. Puppet them, annex them, leave them independent; doesn't matter. Just leave the Axis immediately afterwards. This gets you a lot of rubber, oil, and aluminum which you'll need for the war in China. If you shower a puppet DEI with lend-lease guns you can get an impressive puppet army from them, or you can create colonial divisions with their manpower. Or use their manpower for garrisons in China. Having the DEI in your hands gives you a lot of options for later in the game.
 
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mursolini

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You don`t need to create some super templates, or even adjust them much, in fact only ~35 army exp is more than is needed.

War with China is pretty easy to win using following:
You stack your most useless divisions on border, with maybe just 1 province with good ones, for spearhead.
Your most mobile and best forces navally invade Chindao and rush north to encircle Chinese forces at the border.
A smaller, third force should invade Shanghi, and attack in that direction.

Army template wise, you can win with templates you have, but since you can, add support arty to your infantry, and preferably add in 1-2 LT to your motorized, and convert existing armor divisions to that template, maybe get a few more of those. Also change your doctrine to Superior Firepower or Mobile Warfare, whichever is your favorite.

If you beeline for Marko Polo and get divisions mentioned, war in china should be easy, obviously you have to micro your spearheads.
 

batui9

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Send volunteers to Nationalist Spain. Maybe send an attache as well. That will net you 20% of Franco's weekly army xp, plus whatever your volunteers manage to accumulate. That should give you enough xp to adjust your templates. Also, you may want to consider not doing the Marco Polo Bridge focus. That focus lets you go to war with China, but it inflicts a huge malus on your army that you have to buy off in stages. Buying the malus off makes the USA more powerful, but leaving it there makes your army fight at around 50% strength (which is suicidal). In the latest versions, you can't declare war on China directly without WT being around 75%, but there is an alternative: wait for China to provoke war.

Communist China has a national focus that lets them sabotage Japanese infrastructure and factories in Korea. When they do that, Japan gets an event that lets them declare war on both Communist China and the Republic of China. Declaring war with this event does not inflict the Marco Polo Bridge maluses on your army, but it is very likely China will still be suffering under its own army malus, which makes them fight at around 50% strength.

This means your army will be at 100% effectiveness, while China is at 50% effectiveness, essentially making your army twice as powerful than their army without you having to do anything. You won't need 14/4 anything to push them then. Plain old 7/2 will do.

Also: consider using light tank divisions. China doesn't put anti-tank guns into their divisions until very, very late in the game (if they somehow survive that long). Light tanks are resource-cheap and can shred infantry very well. Give them support engineers and they won't be penalized by bad terrain as much. As Japan, you will find that light tanks will go farther for you than for most any other nation (everybody in Europe has AT support by 1939, most people in Asia don't have it till 1944).

If you want to go pro-gamer, you can declare an early war on the Dutch East Indies right out of the gate. Join the Axis, justify on DEI, get docking rights in Italy and Nationalist Spain, move your fleet to Germany (search for "Sunrise Invasion" on youtube for a how-to video about this... there's a trick to moving the fleet you'll need to see), put a stack of infantry in Germany and plan a naval invasion into the Netherlands (the middle port; AI rarely guards that in the early game). When the justification is ready, invade the Netherlands and capitulate them (don't call Germany in). Then puppet the DEI for manpower (or annex them for resources) annex Curacao for oil (and a staging ground for an invasion of the USA) Guyana for aluminum, and then do whatever you want with the Netherlands. Puppet them, annex them, leave them independent; doesn't matter. Just leave the Axis immediately afterwards. This gets you a lot of rubber, oil, and aluminum which you'll need for the war in China. If you shower a puppet DEI with lend-lease guns you can get an impressive puppet army from them, or you can create colonial divisions with their manpower. Or use their manpower for garrisons in China. Having the DEI in your hands gives you a lot of options for later in the game.
Thanks for these tips man, I didn't even know China could trigger the war with Japan. Will definately try out the light tanks and just letting china beat its head against me at the start.