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The Andy-Man

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Hi!

First time playing Reveloutions with VIP, and don't really know how to get started as Greece.

Any help would be greatm, specificaly how do i get capatilists so they can start building factories.

Or, how do i get any kind of cash in the coffers??

ty!
 

|AXiN|

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Take it slowly. The Greeks can pull a passable profit with their RGOs, so just wait for that to build up. Switch to a ConMon or Democracy and IIRC you inherit the Ionian Islands, so do that. Remember that Victoria is a marathon, not a sprint - it'll take a long time before you're in a position of power.
 

unmerged(131989)

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There are some events changing the constitution of Greece to a constitutional monarchy in the 1840's, IIRC. There are also plans to get more internal political developments in Greece represented better in the next version (which will subsequently allow industrialisation to be easier when you get the Russian faction in power).

Something that has also been contemplated is having a clipper shipyard in Roumeli state to represent the Greek ship building industry. However, initial testing of this indicates that this is yet another factory type that starts off making a loss - many factories will have to be balanced out.
 

The Andy-Man

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Ok thanks guys. So it's basically take it real slow? The RGO's don't make any profit at all for me, and I found that i was making a £2 loss a day unless i reduced all spending.

thanks again!
 

unmerged(74032)

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Use the second oriental crisis to your advantage!
Invade crete and some egyptian provinces. Take Cairo if you're lucky and then wait for a peace deal offer. Normally you'll get crete and some palestine provinces.
Now improve your relations to the ottomans till they are at +150 at least.
Trade back the palestine provinces for ottoman provinces on the balkans. If you're really lucky you can get all of the ottoman balkan provinces this way.
 

unmerged(131989)

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Well, basically the idea is to reunite the greek world (Greece plus Anatolia). But its just so damn hard with no cash!!!

Maybe a later start date is better?
There is no later start date for the VIP campaign - it's 1836 or nothing. It does get easier, though.

One thing I would recommend is to research industrial techs early on. This will allow you to gain better efficiency, and therefore more productivity and subsequently more money for you. The commerce techs might make your capitalists spend too much on their consumer goods too early on, meaning they don't generate cash reserves too well.
 

unmerged(74032)

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The Ottomans do have some cores on the more eastern Greek provinces though...

True but they would give you pretty much anything else. You could have all of greece, albania and bulgaria in 1850 without a single war against the ottomans.

Then you can wait for the crimean war, join the russians invade istanbul and proclaim the byzantine empire.
 

The Andy-Man

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There is no later start date for the VIP campaign - it's 1836 or nothing. It does get easier, though.

One thing I would recommend is to research industrial techs early on. This will allow you to gain better efficiency, and therefore more productivity and subsequently more money for you. The commerce techs might make your capitalists spend too much on their consumer goods too early on, meaning they don't generate cash reserves too well.


Dumb question but, how do i get capitalists?

And what are Clerks???
 

The Andy-Man

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Promote to clerks and then capitalists afterwards.

Clerks are... well... clerks! You do know what a clerk is in real life? They are essentially those, and the new emerging middle class of the period in general.

In real life, yes I know what they are. The POP system in Ricky, however, dosn't have too much in common with real life, so... :p
 

unmerged(75409)

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I'm playing Greece right now, very successfully so... here's my 2ct:

- at the beginning, there's a strategic choice to be made: do you want to pounce on Egypt during the crisis in 1838 when it's weak, or do you want to pass up and take your land back later? If you want to strike early, you need to build an army and 1-2 additional ships because your starting forces are just too weak. A war against Egypt will not be easy and it will leave you deep in dept even if you do take land. I did not go this route, with VIP also the Turkish-Egyptian war last way too short and I did not want to risk bankruptcy over Crete.

- If you decide like i do, and leave the Egyptians alone, you should set army, navy and military spending to as low as possible, and concentrate your research focus on commerce and industry. You can easily get some inventions which will bring you to a profit of 3-7 pounds per day without changing anything. Don't start industrialization early, your nation is not wealthy enough to afford the costs at the beginning, and you have a conservative party which does not support industrialization well. In 1842/43 you will get a liberal laissez-faire party and then you can do industrialization. Don't build any railroads either. It has to wait until you get the laissez-faire party. Set tarriffs to max, and all taxes to max. Rich maybe not max but at least 35% so you can make some money, you have no capitalists and the aristocrats are useless parasites who don't need the cash.

- Wait for your RGOs to become more profitable through inventions. Eventually, about at the time when you get the event that changes your constitution and gives you the liberal party, you should have enough cash saved up that you can afford to promote a ~30,000 sized pop in Athens province to capitalist. This will cost about 15,000 in cash plus expensive resources, don't spend this too early or you will end up with a debt and the interest payments will be so large that you will just go deeper and deeper into debt!!!!! you should have ~8000 pounds saved up at this point.

- Once you promote the capi he should accumulate cash (remember to set rich taxes to zero at this point) and start building railroads and eventually factories. This is extremely nice at this point, neither building activity costs you anything, so your sole aim should now be to have the capitalist accumulate as much money as possible. He will spend it all on development which is excellent. Railroads will boost your RGO income, and when there are no more railroads to build he will build factories.

- at some point prior to 1848 you should increase your mobilization so that you can call up at least 3 divisions. It is a bit costly but you should do it, as a life insurance in case stronger neighbours declare war on you (unlikely but possible) so you can fend them off until help arrives from Russia, France or Britain. Also because your two divisions standing army is pathetic. Also build two or three transports so you can transport your whole army in one go.

- In 1848 Italy will go into revolutionary warfare. Austria is pretty much scripted to win this war and it will not last long. You however are presented with a unique opportunity: The Kingdom of Two Sicilies will declare war on Austria and move parts of its army north. Opportunity!! :cool: Prepare in advance for this. Mobilize, and load your army onto your ships. The ships should be at 50% maintenance or more because otherwise they can sink with your precious army on board if you run into enemy ships. Once war is declared , attack Sicily, your aim should be to take the whole island of Sicily, also to seize Naples in order to force them to peace before the war drags out too long. you don't want to be stuck in a war with them when Austria peaces out and re-allies with them!!!

- If you can take Sicily, your economic worries should be over, because Sicily has 2 million people (meaning that seizing Sicily will *triple* your population) and they are almost all craftsmen. Perfect!! Because at this time the capitalist in Athens should start building a factory. If it works out for you like it did for me, italian craftsmen will quickly migrate over to your mainland and staff your factories. You can now strip all RGOs except for the Sulphur ones of their labour and promote them to craftsmen and clerks. You should be able to pay off the debts from the war in no time, and become prosperous. I.e. a profit of 8-15 pounds per day, more as you get more factories.

- Now how will you get that land from the Turks and unite the Greek nation? Your country has 1 million greeks at start, Sicily can add 2 million Italians whom unfortunately you cannot promote or demote. So you need those Greek POPs in Turkish land - there are about 3 or 4 million of them altogether!! Here's my strategy: I check which of the Arabian and Ethiopian/Somali uncivs have negative prestige, I ship my army over, and I conquer them without any regard for badboy or prestige loss. Because the trick is, you can sell the provinces that border the Ottoman lands to the Ottomans in exchange for your own provinces!! Get relations up to 190 or 200 and you can for example get all of Cyprus for two worthless provinces in the Saudi Arabian desert. Or Crete, Rhodos, Militini, Volos and Arta for three of those. I bummed this at one point, though, I sold them my last province in Somalia and forgot that there was one more Ethopian unciv that I wanted to conquer. Also I sold AbuDhabi to the French because I thought I needed the cash. So I ran out of land, and Macedonia is still in Turkish hands. :wacko: Could have done that better...

- after the land grabing and trading is over you should have most of Greece back in your hands without ever firing a shot. Of course the Turks have some provinces that they won't sell at reasonable prices, like Thessaloniki and the land east of that. France and Britain also pay well for worthless land in Africa, provided it borders their lands or is on a coast... do some of that to rake in more cash.

- The newly won lands are not all as well suited for industrializing as your heartland. The Aegean is nice, it's a state of six provinces, but the states of Epirus and Thessaly for example are small and have maybe enough POPs for one factory. I did not build one there yet, promoting the necessary capitalist just seemed like a waste to me. I think I will wait for an opportunity to change to the interventionist party and build the factory myself without the need for a capitalist. I don't want to promote the capi when there are only 6 or so suitable POPs in the province...

That's as far as I have played. Italy has formed and is still mad at me but two divisions are well entrenched in Messina and should they declare war they should hold them off until my mobilized army arrives. I have a colony in Africa where Herero went bankrupt but it's mostly worthless, except as a basis for expeditions to other lands. I am 15th place in the world. I am now building up my army and navy, so that I can dare to go to war against the Ottomans should an opportunity arise. I want Thessaloniki, damn it!! :mad:

Greece is fun and it's a good country if you are not a complete newbie. I didn't play Vic for 4 years and then got Revolutions, and it's my first campaign with it. Hope this helps!
 

The Andy-Man

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thanks for the nice post leviathan! Will have to give it a go when I get a chance.

I didn't realise the RGO's were good cash makers, i get wasting my money on a factory :/
 

unmerged(75409)

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Well cash makers is a bit overstated, but they do make enough money to not go broke and still have something on the side. You do need to industrialize eventually, but it's not so urgent that you should plunge yourself into unrecoverable debt. The game is long enough :)
 

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I've found that if you research too many commerce techs then the Greek capitalists will spend all of their money on goods instead of railways or factories. Some events I've scripted will hopefully tackle the industrialisation problem for Greece. One event is for the Russian faction to gain power after one of the coups/revolutions - as historical - meaning you will have the ability to build factories/railways yourself for a brief window. Another event will detail the rise of Trikoupis and his interventionist/railway-building policies, which means you will have a period of being able to build railways cheaper for a certain amount of time (this is done for Canada, IIRC, too).

So yes, the industrialisation problems for Greece will hopefully be eased. Of course, though, this is for the player to take advantage of this - Greece wasn't that industrialised during this time.

Oh, also there will be a clipper shipyard on start-up for Greece. This is to represent the Greek shipbuilding industry which was actually quite large during this period.