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unmerged(35012)

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Hi guys!

I'm one of those late comers to the EU2 game, but I'm trying to get up to speed with it's rules and nuances. I've been reading mos of the FAQs available on this game (although I most confess I skid those filled with to much numbers in them... :eek:o ) and I think I'm slowily getting there, but I still must ask for some tips in taking Portugal of the ground.

I'm already in the 1500s and I've yet to ammas enough money to begin seriously developing the country. I'm not sure what I'm doing wron, but it has to do with my budget settings - at least I think its part of the problem.

Can I ask for some guidance from you guys? I would really apreciate it. After all, I'm looking to learn this game the best possible and them use the "momentum" to begin toying with Victoria and Crusader Kings - (Yes, I do have some free time to fill :D )

I'm leaving some thumbnails of the main screens in my game, to give you a "crash course" on my current situation in teh game. Hope I'm not abusing you guy's patience, since this is my very first post.

Thanks!
Pirimeister



























 

Rythin

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You should start colonising in your ToT zone (Treaty of Tordeillas - the event that splits world in two parts, Spanish and Portugal. If you colonised in Spanish zone, they will simply take those provinces without you noticing it). It means Brazil, Africa and Indonesia.

Also, you should invest infra 4/trade 4, then switch to some land/naval and then to naval/infra.
 

Oerdin

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You need to get colonizing fast but like the other fellow said avoid the tradionally Spanish areas as the Spanish will just burn your colonies. Another good thing is to go after a few of the pagan Afrian powers and then convert them so they adopt your nation's culture; one of them in southwest Africa even controls a center of trade so it would make a great target.

Make sure you push your slider all the way towards Naval and free trade as this will help you get more explorers and increase your chances of getting a new center of trade. Lastly try to keep the size of your military in check as it tends to eat up alot of resources which Portugal doesn't have.
 
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But your African provinces are not very wealthy. If you captured them in a war, they are also wrong culture, wrong religion. You will need troops to keep them - a drain on your very limited funds.
You have colonies & trading posts in a wide variety of areas. Why do you need a tobacco plantation in the Carolinas, when you can have several in Brazil? If your colonial ventures are closer together, one small army can protect / defend / keep order more easily.
Stay out of wars. Keep your army small. Personally, I would stay out of continental Africa until you get to the Cape. (or maybe Fernando Po). Cape Verde is a good base for you.
Never mind military technology. You don't have the manpower of the money to fight wars anyway. Get that trade tech rolling. Place merchants carefully, and watch you income rise. Trade income should be half of your revenue. More money will speed up your research in other areas later.
I know you have little money. Tax collectors are essential, though. Everywhere. Then consider developing some of those colonies to city status, when they can start to pay off in terms of revenues. Trading posts are cheap to set up; they also don't provide that much income (especially in the 1400s)

As for your sliders, consider researching one tech at a time, rather than 4 at once. Put land and naval and stability as far left as they'll go. Push trade (or infra) 3/4 of the way to the right. Hold the cursor there to see the date you will receive an advance. One step in trade means that your merchants will produce more revenue (and have a better chance of sticking in COTs). This will provide more money for research ....

You could also check out Flame of Udun's nation specific strategies in the FAQ thread...
 
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DSYoungEsq

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1st off, you are not as bad as you think. :)

In order of importance, you do need to change your approach slightly, IMHO. I just got done not too long ago with a Portugal game, so I'm still a bit tuned into how to proceed.

1. Research: You have your research sliders (budget window) set for roughly even division of monthly income into each category. Don't do it this way. While certainly more historically accurate, it prevents you from maximizing long-term income. At early parts of the game, it isn't as relevant to be up to par militarily with the AI nations, because you can usually out-manoeuver them in a war anyway. So most people here will stick as much of their monthly income into Infrastructure research, at least until you have reached level 5. This is the magic level at which you can start to promote mayors to governors, which allows you to divert monthly income into your treasury with a lessened impact upon inflation.

So, a methodology for research for Portugal might be: all available money into researching infrastructure until you reach level 2 (whereupon you build fine arts academies to accelerate the pace of increasing stability, soon to be a difficult chore as you grow bigger), then if need be spend briefly on land technology to get to level 5 (assaults, very helpful in dealing with native cities), then infrastructure to level 3 (allows breweries, which then help your trade research without you having to divert monthly income), perhaps even to level 4 if you can get away with it, back to land to get to level 9 (which gives you a new Combat Resolution Table), then back to infra through level 5. At that point, you can work on Trade, with again occaisional focus on either land or naval to achieve important level bonuses. Keep in mind that the more you lag behind other nations in land or naval, the more that lag contributes in "neighbor bonus" monthly to researching that technology! Some of the small Catholic nations sprint out to a big lead in those areas, so you get some dramatic help without spending one gold ducat of your own. :)

2. Taxes: You don't have a tax collector in Tangiers. This deprives you of Census Taxes every year from that province. It also deprives you of 1d per year in production income from that province. As a general rule of thumb, if you capture a city and are ceded the province in a peace resolution, immediately promote the tax collector, regardless the revolt risk.

3. You aren't colonizing nearly fast enough, nor in the areas you need to. Portugal currently in your game has 4 explorers and 4 conquistadors. With those, you should be all the way around the horn of Africa, and you should be master of the whole of Eastern South America. In addition, your conquistadors should be aware by now of all Brazillian and Argentinian provinces, and you should also have all the Eastern North American provinces discovered, at least to the borders of the various indian nations. The supply of explorers and conquistadors is not endless, so you have to make hay with them while you can. Keep in mind that the conquistador only has to be in the province when you send a settler for the bonus to chances of success; once you click send, the fate of the settler is already determined and the conquistador can head to the next province.

I do not think Portugal ever should worry about the consequences of the Treaty of Tordesillas (probably hasn't even been put into effect yet in your game). This Treaty will eventually allow Portugal and Spain to march troops into provinces in their colonial spheres owned by Catholic nations without declaring war, and take over ownership. Thus, if Portugal settles Tocuvo, as you have done, once the ToT is in effect (early 1500's), Spain can send troops in and claim it as Spain's, without Spain declaring war on Portugal. If you have a city there already, with a fortress, Spain has to siege it successfully, otherwise, the province immediately changes ownership. If Portugal wants it back, it has to declare war on Spain. The reverse is true in Portugal's areas (Brazil, Africa, India, and the Far East), but an AI Spain won't colonize them anyway.

Why then should Portugal not worry? Because all Portugal need do is ally with Spain. I have never had an allied Spain take a ToT colony from me as Portugal. The only downside to this is that you can't then fight Spain in an attempt to conquer it, but from the looks of things, you didn't plan that anyway. Ally Spain, then beat them to all the colonies you can, crippling Spain for the remainder of the game. :) (Hint: set your in game pop-ups to pause and pop-up whenever a new province is discovered by anyone; it gets annoying, but it is a sure fire method for knowing when Spain has found a new province, whereupon you simply send a settler there at once if you already discovered it yourself. ;) )

If you wish to worry about the ToT, then you still have plenty of areas to settle. All of Brazil. All of the eventual United States, with the exception only of Florida and the Gulf Coast. All of Africa, including the VERY important and VERY strategic location of Table in South Africa. All of the Far East (except the Philippines), and All of India. Keeps you busy. ;)

4. Trading Posts v. Colonies: You have some trading posts that you are advancing to higher level trading posts which you really should be turning into colonies and, eventually, cities. Massachussets is the prime example. It trades in fish, a medium value item, and has a high potential tax value (5) when turned into a city. So rather than make it a level 6 TP, you want to make it a colony, then turn it into a city. It can then recruit troops, it will pay taxes as well as production income and trade taxes. It isn't adding much to the value of Tago's Center of Trade, so don't continue to make it a higher level trading post.

In general, make provinces with high value trade items (sugar, wine, spice, chinaware, cloth, copper and iron, salt) trading posts, unless you need a strategic spot for your ships to put to port to cancel out accumulated naval attrition. Thus, many people make Recife a colony, so that you have a place to put to port on the SA coast after crossing the Atlantic. Make low value item provinces colonies, focussing first on those with a high potential tax value. Medium value provinces are best taken by TP's until you have the time and money to aggressively colonize.

5. Trade, Trade, Trade: Portugal starts with the third highest Trade efficiency in the game. From the get go, you must flood CoT's with your merchants. Tago, France, Flanders and Mecklemburg should be loaded with five Portugese merchants apiece, and you cannot let the Tago CoT be less than five ever if you can help it, since all your own provinces are likely trading there. You seem to be doing well there, so all I can say is, keep it up. :)

In short, 1: research infrastructure virtually exclusively until you get to level 5; 2: promote tax collectors in Tangiers and any colony you manage to grow into a city; 3: make really strong use of your explorers and conquistadors and colonize all the areas you can (Spanish Ally?); 4: change some of the TP's into colonies, and get a city or two in the new world, so you can recruit troops to take on paga nations later; 5: Trade.

Good luck with Portugal. :)
 

unmerged(19042)

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Good advice there, I would add several things:
1- As has been said you must colonize double quick! So fiddle your DP settings to go full naval and full trade (you are at the other extreme - which lowers the numbe rof colonists you get). Eventually you could go narrowminded as well, I wouldnt work on that straight away as you wont have enough money to place all the colonists you would be getting with full naval/ full trade anyway, and you dont want to slow down tech that much, and IIRC Portugal gets several events thtat lower innovativeness, so no need to waste opportunities moving that slider.

2- On timing 1501 i very early days yet, you probably wont be the dominant power until 1600 or so, and in anycase with the low manpower it may take longer.

3- Good job on keeping inflation at only 1.7%! :)
 

unmerged(35012)

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Uau! So much good advice!

It goes to show how green I still am: I was thinking I was expanding too fast!

Specialy with Spain going full blast with their expansion (I some times see their colonizers crossing the oceans and going into unknow areas - to me, at least.) In fact I was entertaning the dangerous idea of working my diplomatic situation towards a war with Spain (after ToT, so I don't lose the colonies I'm entitled) just to take her out of the game. That's when I thought "nah, it's much better to ask for some sound advice"... :D

One extra question I forgot to ask about CoT: I read it somewhere that after a certain level, your merchants are no longer competed out of the CoT where they've established a monopoly. Can you confirm this? And if so, when does it happen?

Well, won't be bothering you guys with much. Now I'm gonna get back to the game and put to practice your advice! Let's see how it turns out.

Cheers!
Pirimeister
 
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pirimeister said:
Uau! So much good advice!
Indeed. I don't feel I need to add anything. :D

Just remember : economy is always first when considering possibilities. Invest in infra and trade until you get 5/5 in both, before investing in other fields. Never invest in stability. Take Castile out, escept for one province (and take Aragon too), just to get the ToT working (tough you don't really need it). Play last beta to get the straits to Africa (to get manpower). Invade Aztecs and Incas. Colonize richest provinces first.

pirimeister said:
One extra question I forgot to ask about CoT: I read it somewhere that after a certain level, your merchants are no longer competed out of the CoT where they've established a monopoly. Can you confirm this? And if so, when does it happen?
Erh, no, it doesn't. What frequently happens is that you get a Trade Efficiency of 160% while the AI is still around 50%, and so it effectively stops competing your merchants, but nothing is really set.
 

SnapperAEG

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passer by said:
Good advice there, I would add several things:

3- Good job on keeping inflation at only 1.7%! :)

Small difference of opinion on this one. I think you want inflation to always be at least 5%, to take advantage of exceptional years (-5% inflation).
Otherwise you waste of the best events.
 

unmerged(19042)

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Hmmm this has been discussed before, personally I prefeer to keep inflation around 3-4%, or lower, this is in the event of war I can mint two years running and should a deflation happen, I get the full benefit, and if it doesnt happen, then I dont get too screwed b/c of war minting.

Also its only 1501, so in 80 years he has racked up 1.7% and he is quite a way from infra 5 and governors, so in my book, 1.7% in 80 years, with shitty income like Portugal's, it is very good! :)
 

DSYoungEsq

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aegandolfi said:
Small difference of opinion on this one. I think you want inflation to always be at least 5%, to take advantage of exceptional years (-5% inflation).
Otherwise you waste of the best events.
Let's assess this logically.

With this rationale, you are saying that you wish to spend essentially the whole game paying an additional 5% for everything you do, simply on the off chance you are going to have an "exceptional year" and "miss out" on inflation reduction.

Please, never be my financial adviser. :wacko:
 

unmerged(6159)

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Spending an extra 5% on everything for the rest of the game is not a problem if you have 7% more income for the rest of the game. I hope your financial advisor would point that out to you.

Portugal is the country above all others that can afford to run up a little inflation in order to colonize and grow income very quickly. I'd set the treasury slider to around 10%-20% until I was able to send out a couple of colonists per year from that income alone. By the time I get givernors as Portugal I'm at around 20-30% inflation, but it's not a big deal because my income will be excellent by then. As Portugal if you stick to 2% inflation you are missing out on sending lots of colonists that could be making you oodles of cash.

And Portugal more than anyone else benefits from trade tech - she will usually have a huge number of trade posts and these are extremely profitable with high TE. So trade research should be an even higher priority than infrastructure, although I agree that your land tech is much too high.
 
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Lamprey

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Lots of good info here, I can't add anything either (not a EU2 expert in any event). Though I will be using some of it myself.

When you decide to move on to Victoria, then I'll be able to help ;)
 

unmerged(3464)

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Portugal for me is challanging to get started but once you get off the ground its a cake walk. I play with a couple of limitations on myself, I never go after the aztecs or incas, never declare war against spain and only take ToT provinces belonging to spain if I get them in a war unless its the philipines since they never go for them anyway. I usually set some kind of role-playing type goals into it to, like either not warring on African nations at all or taking them all and try to convert them. Being friendly towards muslims or being the great crusader, etc. Portugal is a lot of fun to play it justs takes a little work to get to the late 1400's or so in good financial shape.
 

unmerged(35012)

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Well, regarding inflation, my idea was to keep it as down as possible, so that I wouldn't make things harder for myself by makings things more expensive. But i went full blast with my merchants and managed to get 5 merchants in Tagus, Flandern and the one in Italy - later got to monopolies- - which has been a good source of revenue (i think).

Since I have so much money available, I just tried to be a fly on the wall and not getting in Spain's way. But now I think I might have made a mistake. And I ca't really decide between taking Lawkeeper's advice of conquering Spain or taking DSYoungEsq suggestion and ally with Spain, hoping to annex it later on.

Colonization-wise, like I've told you, I was under the impression that I had overstretched myself. I went with the following rational: only send a colonist to those startegical places where my ships can/need to make port ( that's why Africa is still so unknown for the portuguese: I've been having lots of trouble to get a colony going along the coast and I'm affraid of "going the distance" with my precious explorers and risk losing them). The rest, turn it into TPs all the way to level 3 (because I remember reading about it in a FAQ)
The oposite happend when I risked going West, so I started colonizing heavily there.

I've began implementing you suggestions about research budgets and DP settings, so let's see how I fare with that (and thanks again for those tips!). And since I've found out that the inflation can be increased a bit more :D , I think I'm going to pump the army a bit to use with the African tribes or even with the (glup!) Spanish...

You should see my "to do" list! And the worst is that I found myself planning and conjecturing at work today, eager to get back home and put it all in action. I'm not even going to mention the fact that I've been going to bead around 3:00am for the past 3 days :eek:o :D

Cheers!
 

DSYoungEsq

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One trick with Explorers is: take them to the limit of known sea, then go one sea zone further. Sometimes, as your tech progresses, you can go two zones further. Then turn tail and head home. Start again the same way.

Exploring down a coast becomes a piece of cake this way. You head down Africa, let's say, and as you explore, sooner or later you discover a land province as well. If it can have a harbor, then colonize it (not a TP), and it becomes your "home" base for further exploration down the coast. You can leapfrog this way quite a long way around Africa, so that your only long water voyage becomes the perilous attempt to discover India via the ocean route. And even then, if you are lucky, you'll discover Mahe along the way, allowing a pit stop mid-ocean.

The same trick works for going around South America. Recife, Aires or Uruguay, Coquimbo act as nice colonies to use for your explorers. Going west across the Pacific becomes MUCH more problematic.

There simply is no way to accomplish as a human player the sort of voyage Magellan undertook; naval attrition will just kill you eventually.
 

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pirimeister said:
Colonization-wise, like I've told you, I was under the impression that I had overstretched myself. I went with the following rational: only send a colonist to those startegical places where my ships can/need to make port ( that's why Africa is still so unknown for the portuguese: I've been having lots of trouble to get a colony going along the coast and I'm affraid of "going the distance" with my precious explorers and risk losing them). The rest, turn it into TPs all the way to level 3 (because I remember reading about it in a FAQ)

This is an excellent basis to start your colonial empire. Couple of things that you may have missed, most players explore with transports, os even if you lose one or two they are cheap and replaceable. Second, on colonizing Africa a nice route (with high colonization success probability) is, Cape Verde - Fernando Po or St Helens - one of Table/ Ciskei/ Karro - Borubon/Mauritius - Mahe and then you are in India, preferably Goa, and then Jakarta (?) in Indonesia. All the natives are very friendly ;).
 

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DSYoungEsq said:
Let's assess this logically.

With this rationale, you are saying that you wish to spend essentially the whole game paying an additional 5% for everything you do, simply on the off chance you are going to have an "exceptional year" and "miss out" on inflation reduction.

Please, never be my financial adviser. :wacko:

:confused: But if you run at zero inflation you are giving up 5 years of full minting (a lot of ducats if you are a trading nation like Portugal or Venice). I almost always get at least one EY per 100-150 years. It's usually worth 2-3+ manufactories to me each time I get to mint up. Which I think is certainly worth the 5% added cost.
 

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aegandolfi said:
:confused: But if you run at zero inflation you are giving up 5 years of full minting (a lot of ducats if you are a trading nation like Portugal or Venice). I almost always get at least one EY per 100-150 years. It's usually worth 2-3+ manufactories to me each time I get to mint up. Which I think is certainly worth the 5% added cost.
Minting to pay for infrastructure increases can be a profitable tactic, depending upon the item purchased, and the situation of the country. I do not deny that.

Minting simply to make sure you have an accumulated inflation score to for an exceptional year to decrease is simply poor economics. You might as well assert you should run at +2 stability all the time to make certain a positive stab event will not be wasted. ;)