Help needed: Tabarestan / Shahanshah achievement

[GChapman]

I cant figure out how to start. Some observations:
* Timmies starts hostile and really hates you and they will attack you within 2 years.
* Qara also starts hostile, but hates you much less. They could possible change there mind after a lot of relation improvements.
* Qara and Timmies our both in Nomad tech group, Tabarestan is in the Muslim tech group. So we should have a tech advantage in the long run.
* No possilble great allies.

First plan: Make claim on Dagestan. Make some transport ships and declare war on Shirvan and annex / vassalise them. Problem: No ports in Caspian Sea...
Second plan: Make claim on Dagestan. Improve relations with Qara and hope they become neutral / friendly. Attack Shirvan and ask for access through Qara. Also: If Qara is neutral / Friendly, they would accept RM + ally almost surely. But even after full improve relations and a gift they were still hostile...
Third plan: Unknown...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Third plan: Make yourself a vassal of QQ and get independence support from the Ottomans.

Fourth plan: Turn down maintenance, store up money, go over your FL, release Persia as a vassal, and DoW QQ:



I supported Armenian nationalists when I went in, but this was otherwise a solo war. I returned cores to Persia, released Iraq as a vassal, and took a province for myself IIRC.

Later in the game:

 

[GChapman]

Make yourself a vassal of QQ? How? Loosing a war?

And the fourth seems impossible, since Timmies attacks that early.

 

[Karasuk]

With diplo adivisor, gift, subs,over force limits army you can RM+Ally mamluks. They mostly rival QQ and will help you vs them. take 100% of QQ: shirvan and iraq provinces. release iraq as vasall. rival QQ. ally ottmans. wait for timurids to ally a small nation. attack them (no cb if needed) so ottos help you even if they allied to timurids. take the provices needed for persia GG.

 

[Pornek]

Solid advices TMIT posted there.

Id just like to add, if QQ has high WE /unrest supporting rebels of Armenia will make them spawn in mountains which means QQ grinds their manpower on them until you can easily declare. Not sure if he meant that.

 

[GChapman]

Solid advices TMIT posted there.

He seems extremely lucky. His screen of the first war (i assume it is his first war) with QQ is in 1458. i cant even pass the year 1446. Timmies or QQ DoW me in 1445 or 1446. Always.

 

[Achanei]

my strat was turning QQ neutral by having high relations, rm and ally - then releasing persia and declaring on timurids. the first two wars were relatively nasty, but thankfully you swim in money with the CoT so mercs ftw. also influence first to get the FL boost from the persian vassal. by the third war I did the fighting on my own, and the fourth war was against QQ to get those cores back too. integrating persia did a number on my effective strength because of the 75% LA thing, but it went all snowball from there. money is reeeallly good in that region.

 

[Happy Chappy]

The way I did it was by checking if QQ had rivalled Georgia at the start. If so, no-casus attack them on day 1. QQ will be guaranteed to give you military access, then fabricate claims on the Caucasian minors. Then from there, vassalize Georgia, then attack the two Shia caucasian minors to vassalize them as well. The Caspian sea does NOT give coring range, so no point annexing them.

All while doing this, build up relations with the Ottomans and maybe Uzbek or Nogai to have a deterrent against the Timurids.

Once you have the Ottomans on side and the caucasian minors. I released Persia as a vassal from Gilan, and then jumped on the QQ, which ends up quite easy to beat. Keep taking land from the QQ and trying to keep positive with the Ottomans.

After that, it's simply a case of waiting for the Timurids to slip up and jumping on them when the opportunity presents itself.

As for idea groups, I'd suggest military ideas mostly. Aristocratic is useful just for having Local Nobility, the 100% Coring Cost is a surprisingly good deterrent against the AI attacking you.

Good luck, and I hope this helps!

 

[HwT]

I cant figure out how to start. Some observations:
* Timmies starts hostile and really hates you and they will attack you within 2 years.

They won't necessarily attack you. I did four Tabarestan starts and in three of them, Timmies attacked indian minors first. That allowed me to improve relations with the Ottomans (you can improve twice as fast by reassigning the diplomat every month) and with diprep advisor, guarantee and building our armies much over the force limit (decreases the size of army penalty to forming an alliance), I was able to form an alliance with the Ottos.

With Ottos as your allies, it isn't much of a job doing the achievement.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

He seems extremely lucky. His screen of the first war (i assume it is his first war) with QQ is in 1458. i cant even pass the year 1446. Timmies or QQ DoW me in 1445 or 1446. Always.

It might have helped that I built 12 regiments then released Persia for even more regiments shortly thereafter. I think the AI's targeting algorithm is at least partially based on strength; in my game QQ attacked (and vassaled unfortunately) Georgia while Timurids went elsewhere before getting dragged on the GH/Kazan type wars.

I don't want to hear how I was lucky though; Ottomans went after me very early and I lost a bit to them in 2 different wars. The 2nd one they declared while I was fighting Timmy and insisted on chasing me down in those lands rather than sieging me out. They were also allied to Timurids (I used Nogai and non-cobelligerent just to get a war vs Timmy, yet in some games Ottos don't ally them at all ffs). When the Ottos finally peaced me out of that war, I had to take loans to build a pure merc force and float off of looting to win it and continue feeding my vassal Persia. Luck indeed ^_^.

The most annoying thing is, prior to both the first and 2nd wars, the Ottomans were friendly and I allied them. Then they went wants your province mode. I paid them back very thoroughly in the last war before stopping, using 1 war to take them from 182 FL to 88.

 

[Stategem161803]

QQ can be allied every single time if you release Persia and improve to +100 relations. Timmy won't attack if you are allied to QQ (at least in the 5 trial runs I did). Eventually you ally the ottomans and trash QQ.

Ironically, my breakthrough run I actually tried DOW QQ during the first year. Of course, it helped that Timmy wrecked them .

There are plenty of non-luck based strategies to use though.

In my other test runs, I had trouble with the timing of breaking the QQ alliance and allying the ottomans. I swear, it's like Timmy spent all that time hovering over the "Declare War" button. Twice in a row, I broke alliance with QQ and before my diplomat got back, Timmy DOW me. There are ways to get around this though.

 

[Pornek]

He seems extremely lucky. His screen of the first war (i assume it is his first war) with QQ is in 1458. i cant even pass the year 1446. Timmies or QQ DoW me in 1445 or 1446. Always.

I had that not happen to me, but the vassal option is imo very good. You declare and offer it as tribute. OE (if hostile to QQ) will support independance which means you get an alliance upon declaring it. With OE in the back the rest is just a grind.
I did not release Persia in my run, since I felt it was wrong to release the nation youre going to form.
And talking about lucky. This was the ruler I got one year in my game.

 

[GChapman]

They won't necessarily attack you. I did four Tabarestan starts and in three of them, Timmies attacked indian minors first.

I already start around 10 times and Timmies (or something QQ) DoW always that early. So im unlucky?

Building up my army to / over the FL seems like a good idea to scary of Timmies / QQ. Maybe that gives me the opportunity to go pass the year 1446 without behind attacked.
I tried to ally the Mamluks the same way, but i got stuck at -2 or something with an army much over de FL, guarentee, gift, diprep advisor, ... And Ottomans are just a little harder to get. I guess i need around 25-30 regiments or even more. But it is worth to try.

 

[PedroVargas]

I improved Timmies until they were neutral, so no attack from them. As soon as you release Persia, they tend to warn you, not a good sign.

But then sometimes you get lucky: Timmies declared on QQ. I immediately did the same, got access from Timmies, took some provinces for my vassal Persia plus one core from Iraq. After the peace it was enough to ally the Ottomans who already supported my war with money before.

From there on it's only mildly hard. I took all the provinces necessary to form Persia for my vassal, integrated them, formed Persia myself (so getting the achievement) and got my remaining cores back from Timmies.

 

[GChapman]

Ive got a decent start after a non cb war against Georgia. I support some rebels, but my ally Ottomans like to destroy them

 

[Achanei]

I already start around 10 times and Timmies (or something QQ) DoW always that early. So im unlucky?

Building up my army to / over the FL seems like a good idea to scary of Timmies / QQ. Maybe that gives me the opportunity to go pass the year 1446 without behind attacked.
I tried to ally the Mamluks the same way, but i got stuck at -2 or something with an army much over de FL, guarentee, gift, diprep advisor, ... And Ottomans are just a little harder to get. I guess i need around 25-30 regiments or even more. But it is worth to try.

you can also use spare diplomat time to improve GH, they don't make too great an ally, but having an alliance alone deters the AI somewhat. allying QQ to fight timurids should be your priority, ottomans can wait.

 

[Demusch]

I had that not happen to me, but the vassal option is imo very good. You declare and offer it as tribute. OE (if hostile to QQ) will support independance which means you get an alliance upon declaring it. With OE in the back the rest is just a grind.

I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, but QQ didn't want to accept my vassalage as a tribute, they just wanted one of my provinces and war reparations. Is there something I'm missing here, or is this random?

 

[Elin]

I did this achievement a few days ago:

-day0: increase relation with QQ / fabricate claim with Gazikumukh
-wait +100 relations (gift, guarnatie,..) and ally QQ. Sometimes you get dowed by timmys first but it's rare, restat if needed.
-DOW gazikumukh
-dow circasia and geogia, normally gazikumukh will create claims fast enought
-Ally ottos
- wait for opportunity to destroy qq

After that it's easy, in my game timmy decided to release persia because of rebels so i had to fight Persia but it's quite the same i think.

 

[Pornek]

I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, but QQ didn't want to accept my vassalage as a tribute, they just wanted one of my provinces and war reparations. Is there something I'm missing here, or is this random?

Have they occupied a province? I also didnt release Persia, maybe that is the reason ?

 

[zamieo]

First, I release Persia as a vassal (since they have an incredible amount of cores), then I fabricated a claim on one of the states in the Caucasus, then allied QQ. Since QQ attacks Shirvan and makes them their vassals, I get military access from Shirvan and can enter the Caucasus and make war on them. I make them my vassals, then I continue to take all the other Caucasus states and making them vassals until I have maxed out diplo relations. In my game, the Ottomans attacked QQ by this point and I declined to enter the war. I was lucky so my royal marriage also ended right after, so I attacked QQ, made Shirvan my own vassal and fed Persia some cores and took a few other provinces (Basra and Baghdad). Then I allied the Ottomans so all was good.

For a while, until they broke their alliance with me and went to war over Armenia, which I promptly released (I was planning to anyways, as the Ottomans wanted those provinces but my prestige was too low, haha). Then the Timurids got their asses handed to them from the west by QQ, from the east by Afghanistan and from the north by the Uzbeks, so I went to war with them as well and fed Persia about 10 or so cores. Now I'm diplo annexing Persia and attempting to get my alliance with the Ottomans back in place (I'm a few relationship points from accomplishing that!). Might be done with the achievement later today or tomorrow, hopefully. It's kind of boring.