Help needed in regards to Kievan Rus

[Damarrocarion]

Hello.

I am currently making a MOD for AD 935 bookmark. Currently I am going through pagan lands of Baltic, Finland and Russia.

I would like to hear peoples opinion on how to setup Kievan Rus state, the work-in-progress MOD is downloadable on first page. Currently it would seem to make sense that main title would be kingdom of Ruthenia and king would personally hold duchies of Kiev/Novgorod. However, the extent of their control in modern day Ukraine is bit unclear to me and naturally there are some independent principalities in the area.

Likewise, in current history folders it has been marked that Svyatoslav is born 945 AD and in current format, Igor of Kiev is childless and Olga is 44 so no kids are going to be popping out from this couple unless concubines.

As I know this forum has plenty of people with knowledge about Russia (some could say, extremely vocal group of people), I would be grateful if you could give me feedback on that MOD thread on how you think I should set this particular realm which was really important for this bookmark. Currently nothing has been done to it as I am hammering the ahistorical pagan areas around it ready first so don't get shocked of the horrible mess that default history files give it.

I am posting this here, as I know many people do not frequent MOD forums.

 

[giant_sloth]

Likewise, in current history folders it has been marked that Svyatoslav is born 945 AD and in current format, Igor of Kiev is childless and Olga is 44 so no kids are going to be popping out from this couple unless concubines.

Our (uk) wiki says Sviatoslav the Brave was born in 935, it also provides explanation.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Our (uk) wiki says Sviatoslav the Brave was born in 935, it also provides explanation.

So putting his birth to 935 and holding duchy of Novgorod would make sense then while his father has Kiev/Ruthenia?

 

[giant_sloth]

So putting his birth to 935 and holding duchy of Novgorod would make sense then while his father has Kiev/Ruthenia?

Why would you do that (give Sviatoslav Novgorod)? For the sake of balance? But Ihor raided (attacked) Byzantium in 940s, I doubt he could have done that without both Northern and Southern Rus being his.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Why would you do that (give Sviatoslav Novgorod)? For the sake of balance? But Ihor raided (attacked) Byzantium in 940s, I doubt he could have done that without both Northern and Southern Rus being his.

Did he not spend his childhood reigning there? Naturally it would be vassal of Ruthenia.

 

[giant_sloth]

Did he not spend his childhood reigning there? Naturally it would be vassal of Ruthenia.

I suppose, in game terms, it would be accurate. Though there was no kingdom of Ruthenia in game history, this kingdom can be easily formed by rulers as powerful as Ihor and Sviatoslav (again, in game).

 

[Slavic face]

I've got a whole book about Early Ruthenia history. However, I need time to translate it from Polish I hope to do it tomorrow/a day after.
Baltic and Finnish tribes can be pretty similar to those from 1066 or 876 - no info about them in those times.
Also, FUCKING AWESOME IDEA! I personally would prefer year 1000, but 935 is good aswell. Actually, I woulb be happy to play as Ruthenia those times

 

[Damarrocarion]

I've got a whole book about Early Ruthenia history. However, I need time to translate it from Polish I hope to do it tomorrow/a day after.
Baltic and Finnish tribes can be pretty similar to those from 1066 or 876 - no info about them in those times.
Also, FUCKING AWESOME IDEA! I personally would prefer year 1000, but 935 is good aswell. Actually, I woulb be happy to play as Ruthenia those times

The tribes will be the same. Only thing I have done is to give various capitals a free upgrade to give bit of variation.

Anyway, feel free to PM me with info. The work is currently on hold as I have come down with a fever. The extend of Bohemia and lands owned by Piast dynasty interest me. Siemosmyl rules the dynasty in this bookmark. Once fever eases up, I should most of the Steppe/Russia done in no time.

 

[Slavic face]

The tribes will be the same. Only thing I have done is to give various capitals a free upgrade to give bit of variation.

Anyway, feel free to PM me with info. The work is currently on hold as I have come down with a fever. The extend of Bohemia and lands owned by Piast dynasty interest me. Siemosmyl rules the dynasty in this bookmark. Once fever eases up, I should most of the Steppe/Russia done in no time.

Allright then. I want to add some, however.
Sviatoslav shoud NOT be born in 935, or have very few years (max 3-4). Igor, his father and ruler of Rus' should be 50-60 years old, have traits Cruel, Deicteful and Greedy. He should also have Spy/Stewardship education and have pagan wife Olga, who can have "z Pskova" dynasty.
The rest of information I will show on the map that I've made.
http://i.imgur.com/t4DmfIh.png
If you have any questions about this map, ask in this thread. Also, I can provide much information about England, Pommerania/Polabia, and Poland. Write if any and which ones you want me to prepare and I will give them. Good luck with your mod!

 

[Damarrocarion]

Allright then. I want to add some, however.
Sviatoslav shoud NOT be born in 935, or have very few years (max 3-4). Igor, his father and ruler of Rus' should be 50-60 years old, have traits Cruel, Deicteful and Greedy. He should also have Spy/Stewardship education and have pagan wife Olga, who can have "z Pskova" dynasty.
The rest of information I will show on the map that I've made.
http://i.imgur.com/t4DmfIh.png
If you have any questions about this map, ask in this thread. Also, I can provide much information about England, Pommerania/Polabia, and Poland. Write if any and which ones you want me to prepare and I will give them. Good luck with your mod!

Cheers.

But wasn't number 8 conquered By Kievans after this start date be independent at the start?

 

[Slavic face]

I'd not say so. It's pretty unclear, however. So both making them vassals/independent is good, as we don't know the full truth about them. You can make them independent for more interesting situation. As I wrote before, I can make such maps for England, Pommerania and Poland if you want. It'd my pleasure to help.

EDIT: I forgot to add that every tribe should have local tribal ruler, only 5 has a governor assigned by Igor.

 

[Damarrocarion]

I'd not say so. It's pretty unclear, however. So both making them vassals/independent is good, as we don't know the full truth about them. You can make them independent for more interesting situation. As I wrote before, I can make such maps for England, Pommerania and Poland if you want. It'd my pleasure to help.

EDIT: I forgot to add that every tribe should have local tribal ruler, only 5 has a governor assigned by Igor.

Thanks. Roght now I am examining where the border between Khazars and Pechenegs goes. I try ti have screenshot of Kievan Rus up tomorrow.

 

[SBolshevik]

and have pagan wife Olga, who can have "z Pskova" dynasty.

Z Pskova is Polish, and Pskov is as far from Poland as you can get. xD
If she wasn't nobility, it might be better to keep her as a Lowborn.

 

[heliostellar]

Not to be a party pooper, but doesn't this thread belong in the mod sub-forum?

 

[Slavic face]

Z Pskova is Polish, and Pskov is as far from Poland as you can get. xD
If she wasn't nobility, it might be better to keep her as a Lowborn.

If she'd been was a lowborn, she wouldn't have been broght to Igor asa proper wife for him
She should be "from Pskov" or the same in Russian.

Thanks. Roght now I am examining where the border between Khazars and Pechenegs goes. I try ti have screenshot of Kievan Rus up tomorrow.

I forgot to tell, but I think that Igor (Ingvarr) should have Russian culture and Norse religion with Symphaty to Slavic.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Not to be a party pooper, but doesn't this thread belong in the mod sub-forum?

Well, I say it so in first message that not everyone frequents those forums and I knew I could get some assistance to this subject on these forums

If she'd been was a lowborn, she wouldn't have been broght to Igor asa proper wife for him
She should be "from Pskov" or the same in Russian.


I forgot to tell, but I think that Igor (Ingvarr) should have Russian culture and Norse religion with Symphaty to Slavic.

So something along these lines?

600 = {
name="Yngvar" # AKA Igor
dynasty=705
religion=norse_pagan
culture=russian
trait=cruel
trait=deceitful
trait=greedy
trait=proud
trait=brave
trait=thrifty_clerk
trait=sympathy_pagan
father=40605
mother=6863
875.1.1={
birth=yes
}
920.1.1={
add_spouse=601
}
945.1.1={
death=yes
}
}

 

[giant_sloth]

Igor, his father and ruler of Rus' should be 50-60 years old, have traits Cruel, Deicteful and Greedy. He should also have Spy/Stewardship education and have pagan wife Olga, who can have "z Pskova" dynasty.

Why all that traits? We only know he was greedy (though it may be debatable). He may also have nickname "the Old".

 

[Damarrocarion]

Why all that traits? We only know he was greedy (though it may be debatable). He may also have nickname "the Old".

Well, if you do not program traits, game will assign trait and two vices/virtues at random so if any knowledge of rulers personality can be found out, then you might as well program them so you do not end up with, for example, non-homosexual Al-Hakam.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Anyway.

Here is screenshot of Kievan lands and work in progress of the MOD is here. I made Igor Slavic in the end as religious differences penalty was just too huge. Changing his culture to Russian is probably also in order. I tweaked ages of the characters a bit too for sake of balance. (I cannot give Sympathy for pagans trait to pagans it seems).

Spoiler

 

[Slavic face]

Nice to see my map in game :3 You changed one province, but it's Allright. Also, better thing would be giving him a Kingdom and Duchies to his tribal vassals. Tribal guys weren't likely to fall apart, which may happen if they only have count titles.
Currently, I'm preparing info for Poland and Pommerania map. Unluckily I don't know enough to make such about Bohemia and Slovakia.